(03-26-2016 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  oh and even Self-
Self 1st 6 years at Kansas- 16 units.
Williams last 6 years at Kansas- 19 units
and even Pitino
Pitino 1st 6 years at Louisville- 10 units
Crum last 6 years at Louisville- 10 units

so in all of your names you brought up- none of the replacements improved on their predecessor in terms of units earned.

So basically you are saying over a 6 year period there was only a drop off of 3 units, which is a half a unit per year over that period. Do you think before you post at all? Or is it purely reflex action?



Cheers,
Neil

(03-26-2016 11:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Also, why exactly would Wright leave Nova? He's got a pretty damn good gig going at Nova. Might have a National title to his name. So why then would he leave?

I was giving examples of coaches that might find these programs attractives. Others not mentioned include current NBA coaches Billy Donovan and Brad Stevens. By the way, many said that Shaka Smart would never leave VCU, but he did.

Cheers,
Neil

Big difference between a coach in the A10 and a coach in the Big East.

Perhaps. But five years down the road are you that confident about that?

I am not.

Cheers,
Neil

(03-27-2016 12:02 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  oh and even Self-
Self 1st 6 years at Kansas- 16 units.
Williams last 6 years at Kansas- 19 units
and even Pitino
Pitino 1st 6 years at Louisville- 10 units
Crum last 6 years at Louisville- 10 units

so in all of your names you brought up- none of the replacements improved on their predecessor in terms of units earned.

So basically you are saying over a 6 year period there was only a drop off of 3 units, which is a half a unit per year over that period. Do you think before you post at all? Or is it purely reflex action?



Cheers,
Neil

those are best case scenarios. Far more typical is what happened at UNC- going from 22 down to 13.

You are the one who said that these moves could be a net positive. You have yet to show me 1 that was. Even if you take Smith's last 6 years at UNC to Williams 1st 6 at UNC- it's 22 for Smith, 21 for Williams.

(03-27-2016 12:05 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Also, why exactly would Wright leave Nova? He's got a pretty damn good gig going at Nova. Might have a National title to his name. So why then would he leave?

I was giving examples of coaches that might find these programs attractives. Others not mentioned include current NBA coaches Billy Donovan and Brad Stevens. By the way, many said that Shaka Smart would never leave VCU, but he did.

Cheers,
Neil

Big difference between a coach in the A10 and a coach in the Big East.

Perhaps. But five years down the road are you that confident about that?

I am not.

Cheers,
Neil

I am. Big East makes oh about 10 times the media money the A10 gets. And while I don't think the Big East gets full respect from the P5, they get a whole hell of a lot more than the A10 ever gets(see St Bonnie's this year).

(03-27-2016 12:09 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 12:02 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:56 PM)stever20 Wrote:  oh and even Self-
Self 1st 6 years at Kansas- 16 units.
Williams last 6 years at Kansas- 19 units
and even Pitino
Pitino 1st 6 years at Louisville- 10 units
Crum last 6 years at Louisville- 10 units

so in all of your names you brought up- none of the replacements improved on their predecessor in terms of units earned.

So basically you are saying over a 6 year period there was only a drop off of 3 units, which is a half a unit per year over that period. Do you think before you post at all? Or is it purely reflex action?



Cheers,
Neil

those are best case scenarios. Far more typical is what happened at UNC- going from 22 down to 13.

You are the one who said that these moves could be a net positive. You have yet to show me 1 that was. Even if you take Smith's last 6 years at UNC to Williams 1st 6 at UNC- it's 22 for Smith, 21 for Williams.

Operative phrase there being "could be". Only you continually insist that your stance is always the correct one. You refuse to acknowledge any alternative point of view other than your own. And it's getting very tiresome.

Cheers,
Neil

it frankly would be unprecedented for a coach to come in and do as well as these coaches have done right off the bat. You want to act like these new coaches come in and there's going to be no drop off at all from what has happened. And that's a joke. Is it possible? sure. but it's rarely if ever happened.

And you as a Syracuse fan should know better. Mike Hopkins went 4-5 losing to St John's for gosh sakes this year. Do you really think he's going to match what Boeheim has done last 6 years? Really?

(03-27-2016 12:35 AM)stever20 Wrote:  it frankly would be unprecedented for a coach to come in and do as well as these coaches have done right off the bat. You want to act like these new coaches come in and there's going to be no drop off at all from what has happened. And that's a joke. Is it possible? sure. but it's rarely if ever happened.

And you as a Syracuse fan should know better. Mike Hopkins went 4-5 losing to St John's for gosh sakes this year. Do you really think he's going to match what Boeheim has done last 6 years? Really?

Again, you have already shown it is possible to do nearly as well. And once again the obvious has eluded you since nowhere have I ever mentioned Syracuse, precisely because Syracuse is not on the same level as UNC, Duke, or even Louisville.

Syracuse is a strange phenomenon in that not only is it built basically off the reputation of a former player, but it is also built off a 2-3 zone. And SU doesn't have a lot of former assistant coaches that are making a huge mark in the coaching ranks. They will hope to duplicate Boeheim's success with Hopkins, but there is no guarantee it will work as well.

But to the overall point, Pitt's move to the ACC has been disappointing at best considering their recent Big East history. Guess what? It didn't matter. Why? Because Brey's Irish teams are performing at a higher level in the ACC than they ever did in the Big East. ND has earned as many units in the past two years for the ACC than they did in their last years 10 years in the Big East.

In the ACC, if SU falters after Boeheim retires, then another program will step up to the plate, just as the Irish are stepping up to the plate while Pitt has taken a step back.

Cheers,
Neil

the thing is there is no guarantee that another program will step up to the plate. What Syracuse has done lately very few schools can match. it's tough to see any of the also rans getting into a competitive posture- forget getting to where Syracuse has been. not many programs have 17 units the last 6 years. also-units last 6 years
Syracuse 17
Duke 17
UNC 19
Louisville 18

so Syracuse has performed on the same level really as Duke, UNC, and Louisville.

also the thing is. if duke slips by 3 units over 6 years, unc slips by 4, Louisville by 4, and Syracuse by 4- that starts to add up.... and odds are pretty good you are going to have at least 1 of those turn into a unc type situation after Smith left where it was -9.

also you have probation coming for UNC almost certainly with probably at least 1 year tourney ban. and you don't know what the recruiting penalties will be for Louisville.

to act like there's no questions about the ACC is a complete joke. there are major questions.

If you're the NCAA, I think you have to root for ND over UNC. I'm sure the folks in Indy aren't interested in a weeks worth of questions about what is taking so to render a verdict.

(03-27-2016 01:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  also the thing is. if duke slips by 3 units over 6 years, unc slips by 4, Louisville by 4, and Syracuse by 4- that starts to add up.... and odds are pretty good you are going to have at least 1 of those turn into a unc type situation after Smith left where it was -9.

also you have probation coming for UNC almost certainly with probably at least 1 year tourney ban. and you don't know what the recruiting penalties will be for Louisville.

to act like there's no questions about the ACC is a complete joke. there are major questions.

And when Georgetown, Villanova, Pitt, and West Virginia stopped producing as many units in the latter part of the Big East run like they were in the beginning part of the run, guess what? Cincinnati, Marquette, Louisville, and SU picked up the slack - resulting in even more units being earned over the latter part of the run then the beginning part.

It's not as though UNC, Duke, Louisville, and SU are going to stop collecting units and it's not as though the ACC doesn't have enough solid programs in the league to pick up any slack. The drop off just isn't likely to be as drastic as you think it will be.

This isn't the B12 where if something happens to Kansas or the SEC where if something happens to Kentucky, major concern is warranted.

Cheers,
Neil

(03-26-2016 06:14 PM)gopher952 Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 06:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 12:24 PM)FUB Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 12:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 10:46 AM)FUB Wrote:  You are not clean, no way no how . It does not get anymore guilty than you. That Always Cheating Conference mentality has affected your judgement.

I am not clean? I didn't realize my personal hygiene was a hot topic for Internet message board debates!

Prove to me how the current team isn't clean. I'll be waiting.

C'mon dude your own players and prof's are rolling you over. Don't pull a Clinton and just deny until the next big problems make people forget about you. It's not a question of academic fraud it's a fact.

Still waiting to hear why the current team deserves to be punished.

Penn state players got punished for stuff that had nothing to do with them. So dont see why UNCheat players shouldnt be. Tho what y'all did was no where near as bad them. You guys still deserve something for all the academic cheating.

And when the investigation is over I'm sure something will be done.

On a side note, I've never been in favor of punishing current students for past wrongdoings. For any school, not just UNC.

(03-26-2016 11:47 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:39 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 11:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Also, why exactly would Wright leave Nova? He's got a pretty damn good gig going at Nova. Might have a National title to his name. So why then would he leave?

I was giving examples of coaches that might find these programs attractives. Others not mentioned include current NBA coaches Billy Donovan and Brad Stevens. By the way, many said that Shaka Smart would never leave VCU, but he did.

Cheers,
Neil

Only way I see wright move is if a Blue Blood team called and offered him at least double what he's making now. To be specific, I only see these schools: UK if Cal leaves for the NBA, Duke, UNC, UL, and KU but don't see their coaches leaving anytime soon. He would pass up on IU and UCLA for sure.

Pitino is not a long termer at Louisville IMO...would not be surprised if he leaves/retires after the 2016-2017 season and Wright would be my #1 choice with Gregg Marshall my #2 choice followed by Chris Mack at Xavier and Archie Miller st Dayton.

(03-27-2016 10:25 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 06:14 PM)gopher952 Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 06:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 12:24 PM)FUB Wrote:  

(03-26-2016 12:06 PM)esayem Wrote:  I am not clean? I didn't realize my personal hygiene was a hot topic for Internet message board debates!

Prove to me how the current team isn't clean. I'll be waiting.

C'mon dude your own players and prof's are rolling you over. Don't pull a Clinton and just deny until the next big problems make people forget about you. It's not a question of academic fraud it's a fact.

Still waiting to hear why the current team deserves to be punished.

Penn state players got punished for stuff that had nothing to do with them. So dont see why UNCheat players shouldnt be. Tho what y'all did was no where near as bad them. You guys still deserve something for all the academic cheating.

And when the investigation is over I'm sure something will be done.

On a side note, I've never been in favor of punishing current students for past wrongdoings. For any school, not just UNC.

Damien Lee and Trey Lewis at Louisville will agree with that statement...in a way I am glad we got the post season ban out of the way.

(03-27-2016 09:32 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  also the thing is. if duke slips by 3 units over 6 years, unc slips by 4, Louisville by 4, and Syracuse by 4- that starts to add up.... and odds are pretty good you are going to have at least 1 of those turn into a unc type situation after Smith left where it was -9.

also you have probation coming for UNC almost certainly with probably at least 1 year tourney ban. and you don't know what the recruiting penalties will be for Louisville.

to act like there's no questions about the ACC is a complete joke. there are major questions.

And when Georgetown, Villanova, Pitt, and West Virginia stopped producing as many units in the latter part of the Big East run like they were in the beginning part of the run, guess what? Cincinnati, Marquette, Louisville, and SU picked up the slack - resulting in even more units being earned over the latter part of the run then the beginning part.

It's not as though UNC, Duke, Louisville, and SU are going to stop collecting units and it's not as though the ACC doesn't have enough solid programs in the league to pick up any slack. The drop off just isn't likely to be as drastic as you think it will be.

This isn't the B12 where if something happens to Kansas or the SEC where if something happens to Kentucky, major concern is warranted.

Cheers,
Neil

The bottom of the ACC is no where near as good historically as Cincy, Marquette, Louisville, and Syracuse were.... Marquette, Louisville, and Syracuse all 3 had been to the final 4 from 2003-2005. And Cincy had been a 1 seed in 2002.

lets look at a few teams...
Wake Forest- 2 tourney spots since 2005.
BC- 3 tourney spots since 2005.
Ga Tech- 2 tourney spots since 2005.
Va Tech- 1 tourney spot since 2005.
Clemson- 4 tourney spots since 2005.

So you're counting on some of those to step up to fill any void. Got it.

(03-27-2016 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 09:32 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  also the thing is. if duke slips by 3 units over 6 years, unc slips by 4, Louisville by 4, and Syracuse by 4- that starts to add up.... and odds are pretty good you are going to have at least 1 of those turn into a unc type situation after Smith left where it was -9.

also you have probation coming for UNC almost certainly with probably at least 1 year tourney ban. and you don't know what the recruiting penalties will be for Louisville.

to act like there's no questions about the ACC is a complete joke. there are major questions.

And when Georgetown, Villanova, Pitt, and West Virginia stopped producing as many units in the latter part of the Big East run like they were in the beginning part of the run, guess what? Cincinnati, Marquette, Louisville, and SU picked up the slack - resulting in even more units being earned over the latter part of the run then the beginning part.

It's not as though UNC, Duke, Louisville, and SU are going to stop collecting units and it's not as though the ACC doesn't have enough solid programs in the league to pick up any slack. The drop off just isn't likely to be as drastic as you think it will be.

This isn't the B12 where if something happens to Kansas or the SEC where if something happens to Kentucky, major concern is warranted.

Cheers,
Neil

The bottom of the ACC is no where near as good historically as Cincy, Marquette, Louisville, and Syracuse were.... Marquette, Louisville, and Syracuse all 3 had been to the final 4 from 2003-2005. And Cincy had been a 1 seed in 2002.

lets look at a few teams...
Wake Forest- 2 tourney spots since 2005.
BC- 3 tourney spots since 2005.
Ga Tech- 2 tourney spots since 2005.
Va Tech- 1 tourney spot since 2005.
Clemson- 4 tourney spots since 2005.

So you're counting on some of those to step up to fill any void. Got it.

How about Rutgers, USF, the BE version of DePaul and latter BE Seton Hall and St. John's (both shadows of what they were in the 80s, early 90s)? Bottom of the ACC is much better than bottom of BE was.

(03-27-2016 12:44 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 09:32 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(03-27-2016 01:39 AM)stever20 Wrote:  also the thing is. if duke slips by 3 units over 6 years, unc slips by 4, Louisville by 4, and Syracuse by 4- that starts to add up.... and odds are pretty good you are going to have at least 1 of those turn into a unc type situation after Smith left where it was -9.

also you have probation coming for UNC almost certainly with probably at least 1 year tourney ban. and you don't know what the recruiting penalties will be for Louisville.

to act like there's no questions about the ACC is a complete joke. there are major questions.

And when Georgetown, Villanova, Pitt, and West Virginia stopped producing as many units in the latter part of the Big East run like they were in the beginning part of the run, guess what? Cincinnati, Marquette, Louisville, and SU picked up the slack - resulting in even more units being earned over the latter part of the run then the beginning part.

It's not as though UNC, Duke, Louisville, and SU are going to stop collecting units and it's not as though the ACC doesn't have enough solid programs in the league to pick up any slack. The drop off just isn't likely to be as drastic as you think it will be.

This isn't the B12 where if something happens to Kansas or the SEC where if something happens to Kentucky, major concern is warranted.

Cheers,
Neil

The bottom of the ACC is no where near as good historically as Cincy, Marquette, Louisville, and Syracuse were.... Marquette, Louisville, and Syracuse all 3 had been to the final 4 from 2003-2005. And Cincy had been a 1 seed in 2002.

lets look at a few teams...
Wake Forest- 2 tourney spots since 2005.
BC- 3 tourney spots since 2005.
Ga Tech- 2 tourney spots since 2005.
Va Tech- 1 tourney spot since 2005.
Clemson- 4 tourney spots since 2005.

So you're counting on some of those to step up to fill any void. Got it.

How about Rutgers, USF, the BE version of DePaul and latter BE Seton Hall and St. John's (both shadows of what they were in the 80s, early 90s)? Bottom of the ACC is much better than bottom of BE was.

USF and St John's both made the tourney in the 2012,2011 seasons respectively.

It's been 5 years since any of those 5 teams that I mentioned made the tourney. Also, it's been 4 years now since FSU made the tourney. So when 40% of your conference hasn't made the tourney in 4 years- that's an issue if you are counting on those teams to start making the tourney to take the pressure off the top teams. I'm sorry- but those 6 programs aren't what you would call solid.