(03-20-2016 10:33 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I have never seen a thread so long about the NIT. Does anyone really watch that much of it unless their team is playing in it?

I used to watch the NIT because it woudonelad up to the NCAA games on the off days, but the NBA got smart and started playing national TV games mon-wed between tourney games, which kills the need to watch the NIT. I do still like the NIT final four, and the CBI 2 out of 3 though. I think the CBI fills the need for the expanded NIT. Similar to how the lower ring bowl games fill a need.

(03-21-2016 08:25 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  ^ good lord, fun sponges, you are not forced to be here...don't like my thread? show yourself out...

Except I had actually contributed something to the thread before that post. Sorry to rain on your parade though.

(03-21-2016 05:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I used to watch the NIT because it woudonelad up to the NCAA games on the off days, but the NBA got smart and started playing national TV games mon-wed between tourney games, which kills the need to watch the NIT. I do still like the NIT final four, and the CBI 2 out of 3 though. I think the CBI fills the need for the expanded NIT. Similar to how the lower ring bowl games fill a need.

The CIT definitely fills a need for mid-majors that don't get one of the few NCAA or NIT spots available to mid-majors ... though whether it should be 16 or 32 is an open question ... but the CBI doesn't seem to fill any particular need, given that the majors seem to have stopped accepting CBI invitations.

(03-22-2016 04:06 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 05:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I used to watch the NIT because it woudonelad up to the NCAA games on the off days, but the NBA got smart and started playing national TV games mon-wed between tourney games, which kills the need to watch the NIT. I do still like the NIT final four, and the CBI 2 out of 3 though. I think the CBI fills the need for the expanded NIT. Similar to how the lower ring bowl games fill a need.

The CIT definitely fills a need for mid-majors that don't get one of the few NCAA or NIT spots available to mid-majors ... though whether it should be 16 or 32 is an open question ... but the CBI doesn't seem to fill any particular need, given that the majors seem to have stopped accepting CBI invitations.

but if the NIT doubles in size, does that 'need' still exist?

Be honest, we all know nobody watches the NIT unless your school is in it. It is like buying a Yugo because you cannot afford a real car!

The NIT was cool before the First Four came into existence and we just needed to fill a void between the Selection Show and Thursday's opening games and ditto for the week leading up to the Final Four. But now with the First Four, the NIT gets lost even more in the mix and while the NIT Final Four is still watchable basketball, it's still just the NIT.

Over time the Vegas 16 will decimate the NIT. No NIT team seeded higher then 4th will host an NIT game and most #4 seeds only get 1. If your a higher seeded team and upset a lower seeded team, your reward is to get on another plane in 2 days and fly to someonelse's home court who knows where. You have no extra time to practice and the travel costs are unpredicatable.

Vegas is a place where lots of fans and teams want to go to. The travel costs are fixed and in future years the tourney will start on a weekend and take only 3-4 days. If you are Wagner for example, wouldn't you rather go to vegas than have to travel to St Bonaventure, pull the upset and beat them and then have to get on a plane to Omaha to play Creighton.

As the Vegas tourney gains traction it will take teams away from the NIT. Since the Vegas touney doesn't start till the last week of March, they could even invite 8-12 teams initially and see if any NCAA first round losing teams want to extend their season in Las Vegas, which would spice up Vegas considerably

(03-22-2016 08:26 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  but if the NIT doubles in size, does that 'need' still exist?

But doubling the NIT in size waters down whatever prestige it still has left, weakening the benefit of the NIT autobid to the regular season champion. The biggest I could see the NIT usefully being is 48 ... the "best one left out of the tourney" from the 32 conferences plus 16 at-large, with the top sixteen seeded into the second round, slotted in order against the 16 survivors of #17-#48.

And below the NCAA tourney, the benefit of playing post-season basketball varies from team to team, based on how young it is and how many injuries it finished the season with. The "in or out at the start of the season" rule for the NIT (which seems a lot more likely to be enforced against mid-majors than against majors) doesn't give the same flexibility as the pay to play tournaments.

its already bad enough that there are like 60 bowl games and teams that are under .500 get shots at them, now you want to expand a consolatory playoff for basketball? c'mon.

(03-22-2016 11:48 PM)AntiG Wrote:  its already bad enough that there are like 60 bowl games and teams that are under .500 get shots at them, now you want to expand a consolatory playoff for basketball? c'mon.

we've been over this...

(03-18-2016 11:41 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:06 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  No because there are already 48 other postseason spots not even including the NCAA Tournament. At this point, slightly less than half of D-I makes the postseason, why not just give everyone a participation trophy? The NIT actually expanded to 40 teams years ago but that's not necessary anymore because of how many more of these tournaments there are.

as I said, expanding the NIT would most likely mean the end of the CIT and Vegas tourney...

let's say only the CBI survives...that's 68+64+16 or 148 teams out of 351 teams is 42% of NCAA teams....

if 58% of NCAA teams are left out, I wouldn't call that 'a participation trophy'

I'm actually surprised I didn't get a clear answer...poll bounced back and forth between yes and no for days...and no answer can seemingly get 60% or more.

(03-22-2016 06:57 PM)Policiious Wrote:  Over time the Vegas 16 will decimate the NIT. No NIT team seeded higher then 4th will host an NIT game and most #4 seeds only get 1. If your a higher seeded team and upset a lower seeded team, your reward is to get on another plane in 2 days and fly to someonelse's home court who knows where. You have no extra time to practice and the travel costs are unpredicatable.

Vegas is a place where lots of fans and teams want to go to. The travel costs are fixed and in future years the tourney will start on a weekend and take only 3-4 days. If you are Wagner for example, wouldn't you rather go to vegas than have to travel to St Bonaventure, pull the upset and beat them and then have to get on a plane to Omaha to play Creighton.

As the Vegas tourney gains traction it will take teams away from the NIT. Since the Vegas touney doesn't start till the last week of March, they could even invite 8-12 teams initially and see if any NCAA first round losing teams want to extend their season in Las Vegas, which would spice up Vegas considerably

lol, Vegas 16, err, 8...can't even fill the spots they have...

(03-22-2016 01:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  The NIT was cool before the First Four came into existence and we just needed to fill a void between the Selection Show and Thursday's opening games and ditto for the week leading up to the Final Four. But now with the First Four, the NIT gets lost even more in the mix and while the NIT Final Four is still watchable basketball, it's still just the NIT.

https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/statu...wsrc%5Etfw

the sold out crowd rushed the court after the game...

(03-23-2016 07:57 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 06:57 PM)Policiious Wrote:  Over time the Vegas 16 will decimate the NIT. No NIT team seeded higher then 4th will host an NIT game and most #4 seeds only get 1. If your a higher seeded team and upset a lower seeded team, your reward is to get on another plane in 2 days and fly to someonelse's home court who knows where. You have no extra time to practice and the travel costs are unpredicatable.

Vegas is a place where lots of fans and teams want to go to. The travel costs are fixed and in future years the tourney will start on a weekend and take only 3-4 days. If you are Wagner for example, wouldn't you rather go to vegas than have to travel to St Bonaventure, pull the upset and beat them and then have to get on a plane to Omaha to play Creighton.

As the Vegas tourney gains traction it will take teams away from the NIT. Since the Vegas touney doesn't start till the last week of March, they could even invite 8-12 teams initially and see if any NCAA first round losing teams want to extend their season in Las Vegas, which would spice up Vegas considerably

lol, Vegas 16, err, 8...can't even fill the spots they have...

This is it's first year, when head coaches realize the benefit of having 2 weeks of extra practice time before the start of the tourney; plus with everyone traveling to one place, it keeps travel costs down.

NIT really doesn't give teams much additional time to practice because the games start the day after the NCAA selection show. and each round is only 2 days apart.

Over time, Vegas will start to grad lower seeded NIT teams, especially those with younger rosters

(03-23-2016 07:56 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

I'm actually surprised I didn't get a clear answer...poll bounced back and forth between yes and no for days...and no answer can seemingly get 60% or more.

Since you asked for a response to a post I don't remember seeing, here's your answer:

Almost every team with a winning record gets a postseason spot except for some that choose to abstain from postseason play. Yes, it's a participation trophy. Things have gone from the NIT being too exclusive to major conference teams to now every team at every level that had a good season getting a postseason game.

(03-23-2016 08:53 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/statu...wsrc%5Etfw

the sold out crowd rushed the court after the game...

Is that supposed to sway me at all? It's nice that some home crowds, especially at some small school like Valpo, are excited for it but people in general don't care and I go back to what I said earlier about there being games on this past Sunday but them being overshadowed by the NCAA's.

If you like it, more power to you but it rings hollow with the average person. The other problem you neglected was the extra travel and longer length of the tournament if it's expanded, which would only make it even more overshadowed by the NCAA's.

(03-23-2016 11:43 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-23-2016 07:56 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

I'm actually surprised I didn't get a clear answer...poll bounced back and forth between yes and no for days...and no answer can seemingly get 60% or more.

Since you asked for a response to a post I don't remember seeing, here's your answer:

Almost every team with a winning record gets a postseason spot except for some that choose to abstain from postseason play. Yes, it's a participation trophy. Things have gone from the NIT being too exclusive to major conference teams to now every team at every level that had a good season getting a postseason game.

(03-23-2016 08:53 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/statu...wsrc%5Etfw

the sold out crowd rushed the court after the game...

Is that supposed to sway me at all? It's nice that some home crowds, especially at some small school like Valpo, are excited for it but people in general don't care and I go back to what I said earlier about there being games on this past Sunday but them being overshadowed by the NCAA's.

If you like it, more power to you but it rings hollow with the average person. The other problem you neglected was the extra travel and longer length of the tournament if it's expanded, which would only make it even more overshadowed by the NCAA's.

First part: I was talking about the poll question...you assumed it had something to do with you.

Second part: I wasn't trying to sway you...I was just posting facts.

Well, whooptee do, should we throw you and Valpo fans a parade? Anyways, if the NIT humors you, then more power to you.

(03-23-2016 09:04 AM)Policiious Wrote:  Over time, Vegas will start to grad lower seeded NIT teams, especially those with younger rosters

It might be risky to decline participation in the NIT at the beginning of the season and hope that the Vegas_some_number will pick you if you miss the NCAA cut.

And while a school that is formally obliged to go to the NIT if invited might be able to "avoid an NIT invitation" by announcing they are not playing in the post-season ... refusing an NIT invite to go to Vegas_some_number seems a lot more likely to get that rule actually invoked that you have to decline up front or go if picked.

Perhaps the NIT should allow schools to bid on hosting an entire section of the bracket. Hosting 3 or 7 games played over 3-5 days may make more sense for everyone involved. Of course if the host institution gets knocked out early, they will likely have a mostly empty gym hosting those neutral-site games.