(03-22-2016 05:09 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  Can someone check on Terry?

I am here in Ireland, alive and well.

I read Frank The Tank's blog and agree with his takes.

I doubt the "wink and a nod" for full membership by ND. ACC fans thought they had a "wink and a nod" too. ND likes to chart its own course.

Obviously, I am one of those ND fans that are anti-Big Tenand liked Hockey East.

That said, it is an interesting power move by ND and a weakening of the Big Ten's " all or nothing" stance.

Notre Dame i thought was a great program to have in Hockey East, but the Irish leaving allows us to get our schedule back to normal, and we can add a great Quinnipiac program. Quinnipiac is currently #1 in the nation and is a perennial power.

So Hockey East's defending National Champion Providence Friars (this might be the last week that i can use that phrase) will return to having home and home weekend games with our geographic rival (in our case Northeastern), then either 2 homes or 2 roads on all other HE weekends.

With Notre Dame, it had changed our schedule where either Maine, UNH or Vermont was left off our home schedule entirely.

These would be our "back to normal" travel pairings:
Maine - UNH.
Vermont - UMass Amherst.
Lowell - Merrimack.
Boston U - BC.
Northeastern - Providence.
UConn - Quinnipiac.
.
I'll miss NBC Sports Network's coverage of HE-ND games, cuz they do a great job.

http://m.startribune.com/notre-dame-to-j...373137251/

(03-22-2016 07:59 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Notre Dame is the w**** of conference affiliation. You never get all of her and even if you're getting a piece, rest assured that she's already in bed with someone else.

I mean, ODU is in 7 different conferences for all of our sports, so I don't think it's that weird for ND to be in another conference just for hockey.

Football/Basketball/Soccer/Baseball/Golf/Tennis - C-USA
Rowing - Big XII
Field Hockey - Big East
Wrestling - MAC
Men's Swimming - CCSA
Women's Lacrosse - Atlantic Sun
Sailing - MAISA (which is a part of the ICSA)

Quote:and a weakening of the Big Ten's " all or nothing" stance.

You can thank Hopkins and their control of their lacrosse fate for this, perhaps. I think it's been corroding for some time before that, though. B1G-PAC would have opened the door widely for it sooner and further, and ASU's ice hockey situation probably would have been resolved already with it in play. They'd all be quasi-associates, so the absorption would be more logical and agreeable. As is, given the big-leaguing the conference pulls on certain institutions who'd love to have any affiliation with the conference, I suspect ASU, assuming the affiliation does happen, is going to take some interesting spin to deflect due and rightful criticism. The official announcement from the conference would be interesting.

Any word on CIC for ND?

(03-22-2016 10:15 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:31 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Notre Dame gets the B1G in New York, Arizona State gets them out west.

The next logical steps would be Rutgers and one of USC, UCLA, or Stanford to get to 10. Nebraska and one other school (Pac 12, Northwestern, Indiana, etc.) would get the B1G to 12:

B1G West - Arizona State, Pac 12 School #2, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Northwestern/Iowa/Indiana/Pac 12 school #3
B1G East - Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers

At some point the Pac 12 starts their own league - how fast just comes down to who among Air Force, Denver, and Colorado College, if any, the Pac 12 is willing to accept as affiliates.

The Pac has proven over the years that they are willing to take in affiliates in Olympic sports.

San Diego State - men's soccer
Cal State Bakersfield, Boise, Cal Poly - wrestling

UC Santa Barbara was an affiliate in men's swimming & diving from 2011-2015.

If the Pac decides to start up hockey they'll take all three of Air Force, Denver and Colorado College as affiliates.

Maybe the PAC would add North Dakota as an affiliate also, if UND would want a PAC 12 affiliation.

(03-22-2016 05:21 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:17 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 05:06 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  There goes BG's chances of getting out of the WCHA.

Maybe now is the time to get going on a CCHA revival. It would be much more fun if Miami and Western Michigan joined us.

BGSU will start the new CCHA with this crew:

BGSU
Canisius
Niagara
Mercyhurst
Robert Morris
Ferris St
Illinois St or Lindenwood
UAH

Perhaps, I don't know. BG has been improving the last few years so they may just stay where they are.

Best case scenario for Miami is if the NCHC somehow dumped Colorado College and someone else (probably Denver because of geography) for ND and BG, that would make us very happy. With ND joining Big Ten hockey however, that obviously goes out the window. I suppose there's a miniscule chance Miami becomes an affiliate member with ND, but our fan base isn't huge and we'd be competition to OSU so it won't happen. For now I guess we just have to hope we do well in the NCHC and that the conference decides to add some more midwestern schools.

(03-23-2016 07:51 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 10:15 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:31 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Notre Dame gets the B1G in New York, Arizona State gets them out west.

The next logical steps would be Rutgers and one of USC, UCLA, or Stanford to get to 10. Nebraska and one other school (Pac 12, Northwestern, Indiana, etc.) would get the B1G to 12:

B1G West - Arizona State, Pac 12 School #2, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Northwestern/Iowa/Indiana/Pac 12 school #3
B1G East - Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers

At some point the Pac 12 starts their own league - how fast just comes down to who among Air Force, Denver, and Colorado College, if any, the Pac 12 is willing to accept as affiliates.

The Pac has proven over the years that they are willing to take in affiliates in Olympic sports.

San Diego State - men's soccer
Cal State Bakersfield, Boise, Cal Poly - wrestling

UC Santa Barbara was an affiliate in men's swimming & diving from 2011-2015.

If the Pac decides to start up hockey they'll take all three of Air Force, Denver and Colorado College as affiliates.

Maybe the PAC would add North Dakota as an affiliate also, if UND would want a PAC 12 affiliation.

You think there boycotting now put us in tha west division like that and we might as well shut our program down all the fans will leave. Look at the big ten tournament place was a ghost town because the program had alienated our fan base.

It seems like

1) ND is in the ACC for all sports but football
2) ND football plays 5 ACC games + USC, Stanford, Navy which doesn't leave much flexibility.
3) there is a huge void of ND playing traditional big 10 school's /rivals in any sport
4) travel and the chance to win is better in big 10 hockey for ND.

Thus, why not join the big 10 for hockey? Also think ND should play 1 from Michigan and Michigan State every year in hoops. Big ? now for the big 10 hockey is who is 8? Not sure about any other big 10 school's adding hockey but i like 10 with ASU, North D and X.

(03-23-2016 07:48 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

Quote:and a weakening of the Big Ten's " all or nothing" stance.

You can thank Hopkins and their control of their lacrosse fate for this, perhaps. I think it's been corroding for some time before that, though. B1G-PAC would have opened the door widely for it sooner and further, and ASU's ice hockey situation probably would have been resolved already with it in play. They'd all be quasi-associates, so the absorption would be more logical and agreeable. As is, given the big-leaguing the conference pulls on certain institutions who'd love to have any affiliation with the conference, I suspect ASU, assuming the affiliation does happen, is going to take some interesting spin to deflect due and rightful criticism. The official announcement from the conference would be interesting.

Any word on CIC for ND?

CIC does not seem like a good fit for ND. ND is very undergrad focused and CIC is research.

Why is there so much noise for Arizona State to be a Big Ten hockey affiliate?

It's a brand-new program and went 5-22 this year. Also it's a really long flight to AZ for Big Ten schools, it's hot as hell and not hockey country. I get the PAC/B1G relationship angle but it's not an obligation. Relationships are based on MUTUAL advantage and I don't see why Big 10 hockey would voluntarily shoot itself in the foot.

If you're the Big Ten, you already have a sizable contingent of your member institutions' alumni in the Phoenix area - and that's even without Nebraska taking the ice, and Nebraska has had a substantial alumni presence in Phoenix since before joining the Big 10. The Big 10 and Pac 12 are very similar in terms of institutional makeup, so Arizona State makes a very attractive affiliate.

I'm curious about which B10 schools have the most alumni in the Phoenix area. is it Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan or is it Illinois Purdue and Northwestern?
Also how many of them are hockey fans? With schools as large as the BIG universities there has to be a sizable amount of people that don't care about sports

I think the B1G needs to think about what the fans want. they should build the brand and appease the fans. Schools like North Dakota and Miami are proven winners. TV markets might not be as great as ASU's but if people aren't showing up to the games in person what good is a large tv market?
kids know Minnesota and Wisconsin are hockey schools. If fans start to boycott games and give up season tix like some Minny fans claim that will not be good for the conference. the schools and business that depend upon the crowds. lack of support will eventually hurt recruiting.

ASU will be there for the taking once they have proven themselves. Maybe by that time another western school with national name recognition will be available[/u]

Is Miami still in the AAU? I have a feeling that they get the first call. The Big Ten is struggling in hockey at the moment and needs all the power that's willing to join it.

(03-24-2016 02:09 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote:  Is Miami still in the AAU? I have a feeling that they get the first call. The Big Ten is struggling in hockey at the moment and needs all the power that's willing to join it.

Miami isn't a research institution, but a public Ivy. It could fit some BIG requirements better than most MAC schools but still falls short.

A name that could benefit the B1G in NY State and NYC is RIT. Good for recruiting upstate NY, has a fervent fan base, a new arena, Rochester would be bonkers over a BIG hockey team, good academics, high endowment, and an entrant into upstate. RIT is in this year's tournament and has been to a Frozen Four so they have more history than Ohio State and Penn St. Delany made the comment after this year's B1G basketball / hockey doubleheader at Madison Square Garden that he'd love to make the event permanent and he wanted a New York area presence for hockey. Thought of Rutgers and UCONN at the time, but RIT could fit the bill. Like Johns Hopkins, they are DIII in everything but the B1G sport, so RIT may be more possible than first appearances as other sports don't complicate things. RIT isn't AAU, but with limited health sciences that status is difficult to attain.

Almost certain that Iowa will start hockey once the arena in Coralville is built and Nebraska and Northwestern are possibilities, so Minnesota and Wisconsin will get more regional teams eventually. RIT fits the need for more hockey presence In NYC and NY state. The BTN viewers there trump Phoenix viewers plus RIT fans would be passionate and travel. RIT isn't a risk to jump like Ariz State would be. It cant offer scholarships, but that hasnt stopped Union and Yale from winning recent championships. What more could the B1G want, a team that would bring in fans, fill MSG, has a history of competitiveness, help Penn St, and get more BTN subscriptions in the Empire State?

(03-23-2016 05:07 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Why is there so much noise for Arizona State to be a Big Ten hockey affiliate?

It's a brand-new program and went 5-22 this year. Also it's a really long flight to AZ for Big Ten schools, it's hot as hell and not hockey country. I get the PAC/B1G relationship angle but it's not an obligation. Relationships are based on MUTUAL advantage and I don't see why Big 10 hockey would voluntarily shoot itself in the foot.

They are interesting and attractive BECAUSE they are so different. Nice trip to Tempe in the winter, get away from snow for awhile. It is a nice little getaway for the B1G schools. Academic scope has already been noted, and the prospect of a Pac-12 hockey league starting for awhile is minimal.

From the TV side, if the B1G could charge in-state rates for the BTN in Arizona, that would be huge. #12 DMA, and a largely growing area.

The competitive standpoint is the only downer, but that can be offset as the Sun Devils become more established as a program.

Guys, guys, guys. Too many people are thinking way too hard on this one trying to convince themselves that the Big Ten would prefer a more regional choice and/or established hockey program over Arizona State. They're not looking at the big picture.

This is about power schools and power conferences making power moves to consolidate power. Miami is not a power school. RIT is not a power school. North Dakota is not a power school (even though it is a top on-the-ice hockey program). In contrast, Arizona State is absolutely a power school. Geography is largely irrelevant here.

Do not ever mistake on-the-ice (or on-the-court or on-the-field) prowess for actual realignment power. ASU has a *ton* of realignment power as an individual school and the Big Ten has ultimate realignment power as a conference overall. It's not even about BTN subscribers in this instance (even though any uptick would certainly be welcomed). The Big Ten adds *power institutions*, NOT programs. The Big Ten adding Notre Dame for hockey was a legitimately surprising move (not because it didn't make sense but rather there was so much acrimony between the parties). Arizona State coming in as Big Ten school #8 is an "easy" extension by comparison.

(03-24-2016 04:21 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:09 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote:  Is Miami still in the AAU? I have a feeling that they get the first call. The Big Ten is struggling in hockey at the moment and needs all the power that's willing to join it.

Miami isn't a research institution, but a public Ivy. It could fit some BIG requirements better than most MAC schools but still falls short.

A name that could benefit the B1G in NY State and NYC is RIT. Good for recruiting upstate NY, has a fervent fan base, a new arena, Rochester would be bonkers over a BIG hockey team, good academics, high endowment, and an entrant into upstate. RIT is in this year's tournament and has been to a Frozen Four so they have more history than Ohio State and Penn St. Delany made the comment after this year's B1G basketball / hockey doubleheader at Madison Square Garden that he'd love to make the event permanent and he wanted a New York area presence for hockey. Thought of Rutgers and UCONN at the time, but RIT could fit the bill. Like Johns Hopkins, they are DIII in everything but the B1G sport, so RIT may be more possible than first appearances as other sports don't complicate things. RIT isn't AAU, but with limited health sciences that status is difficult to attain.

Almost certain that Iowa will start hockey once the arena in Coralville is built and Nebraska and Northwestern are possibilities, so Minnesota and Wisconsin will get more regional teams eventually. RIT fits the need for more hockey presence In NYC and NY state. The BTN viewers there trump Phoenix viewers plus RIT fans would be passionate and travel. RIT isn't a risk to jump like Ariz State would be. It cant offer scholarships, but that hasnt stopped Union and Yale from winning recent championships. What more could the B1G want, a team that would bring in fans, fill MSG, has a history of competitiveness, help Penn St, and get more BTN subscriptions in the Empire State?

RPI I believe has more history than RIT in hockey. North Dakota & BU should also be invited as an affiliate for hockey.

As B1G Hockey affiliates, UND, RPI and BU would all be excellent adds and expand the existing network area into large viewership areas (RPI gets the BTN into western/central NY State pretty much completing the state coverage, BU gets the BTN into the Boston area, New England general and Northeastern NY), and BU also brings AAU status while RPI is an elite academic (esp engineering) institution.

The hard pill to swallow with ASU is the academic fit thing the conference has used on so many different interested parties in the past. If it means that much to the Big Ten, which they do because it becomes their alibi of choice when discussing mystery schools who approach the league, UMOH would be the better fit of the two, but neither would make the cut based on the AAU thing.

It's different with Notre Dame and Nebraska. There's a ton of mileage there between them and the conference respectively. Basically legacy members. Same with Chicago in the CIC as the only non-D1 athletic member. There's no Big Ten without UC.

There's an end-game to this, and it's getting B1G-PAC back on the table, I suspect. Everyone but USC (and Stanford, supposedly) were on board with this on both sides...22/24 schools for the thing, just to be squashed because of "logistics." No way. The B1G gets this done, and ASU generates the conversation elsewhere with PAC schools. USC holds that darned conference hostage to nobody's benefit (not even their own, given the conference network issues).

(03-24-2016 12:26 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 04:21 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:09 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote:  Is Miami still in the AAU? I have a feeling that they get the first call. The Big Ten is struggling in hockey at the moment and needs all the power that's willing to join it.

Miami isn't a research institution, but a public Ivy. It could fit some BIG requirements better than most MAC schools but still falls short.

A name that could benefit the B1G in NY State and NYC is RIT. Good for recruiting upstate NY, has a fervent fan base, a new arena, Rochester would be bonkers over a BIG hockey team, good academics, high endowment, and an entrant into upstate. RIT is in this year's tournament and has been to a Frozen Four so they have more history than Ohio State and Penn St. Delany made the comment after this year's B1G basketball / hockey doubleheader at Madison Square Garden that he'd love to make the event permanent and he wanted a New York area presence for hockey. Thought of Rutgers and UCONN at the time, but RIT could fit the bill. Like Johns Hopkins, they are DIII in everything but the B1G sport, so RIT may be more possible than first appearances as other sports don't complicate things. RIT isn't AAU, but with limited health sciences that status is difficult to attain.

Almost certain that Iowa will start hockey once the arena in Coralville is built and Nebraska and Northwestern are possibilities, so Minnesota and Wisconsin will get more regional teams eventually. RIT fits the need for more hockey presence In NYC and NY state. The BTN viewers there trump Phoenix viewers plus RIT fans would be passionate and travel. RIT isn't a risk to jump like Ariz State would be. It cant offer scholarships, but that hasnt stopped Union and Yale from winning recent championships. What more could the B1G want, a team that would bring in fans, fill MSG, has a history of competitiveness, help Penn St, and get more BTN subscriptions in the Empire State?

RPI I believe has more history than RIT in hockey. North Dakota & BU should also be invited as an affiliate for hockey.

As B1G Hockey affiliates, UND, RPI and BU would all be excellent adds and expand the existing network area into large viewership areas (RPI gets the BTN into western/central NY State pretty much completing the state coverage, BU gets the BTN into the Boston area, New England general and Northeastern NY), and BU also brings AAU status while RPI is an elite academic (esp engineering) institution.

In what planet would BU leave Hockey East for B1G hockey affiliation? Additionally, hockey remains a niche sport. I do not see the BTN getting on basic tier in new markets with the addition of hockey affiliates.