Not necessarily good press, but it's still press...

Rice among schools facing questions over massive endowments

One thing that's always missing (frustratingly so) in reports on university tuition is that, especially for schools like Rice, the stated tuition is not even close to the average or median price that students actually pay. I wonder if there is any way to get the public to understand that?

Snickering over the headline aside, Rice is on several Best Value and Most Affordable lists.

We're #5 on this one:

http://www.bestvalueschools.com/25-best-...versities/

The Financial Aid office also has a net price calculator:

http://financialaid.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=68

I haven't heard it mentioned as much lately, but for a while, Rice was stressing that if the only thing preventing a student from attending was money, they would find a solution.

Does Rice still cap the amount of debt they'll let a student incur?

(03-22-2016 10:53 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  Not necessarily good press, but it's still press...

Rice among schools facing questions over massive endowments

One thing that's always missing (frustratingly so) in reports on university tuition is that, especially for schools like Rice, the stated tuition is not even close to the average or median price that students actually pay. I wonder if there is any way to get the public to understand that?

I wonder if he will next crusade for new car stickers to list the price that a deal will be made at.

(03-22-2016 11:36 AM)JSA Wrote:  Snickering over the headline aside, Rice is on several Best Value and Most Affordable lists.

We're #5 on this one:

http://www.bestvalueschools.com/25-best-...versities/

The Financial Aid office also has a net price calculator:

http://financialaid.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=68

I haven't heard it mentioned as much lately, but for a while, Rice was stressing that if the only thing preventing a student from attending was money, they would find a solution.

Does Rice still cap the amount of debt they'll let a student incur?

Last I heard they still cap it.

However, I think we miss out on some students who used to come to Rice due to its value because the initial sticker price is climbing higher and higher. Because you have to dig a little bit to find out that the eventual cost of attendance for many students is much lower than the sticker prices, I think we no longer capture a market of potential students we used to.

(03-22-2016 11:45 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder if he will next crusade for new car stickers to list the price that a deal will be made at.

Congratulations on post #26,000 OptimisticOwl.

(03-22-2016 11:46 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 11:36 AM)JSA Wrote:  Snickering over the headline aside, Rice is on several Best Value and Most Affordable lists.

We're #5 on this one:

http://www.bestvalueschools.com/25-best-...versities/

The Financial Aid office also has a net price calculator:

http://financialaid.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=68

I haven't heard it mentioned as much lately, but for a while, Rice was stressing that if the only thing preventing a student from attending was money, they would find a solution.

Does Rice still cap the amount of debt they'll let a student incur?

Last I heard they still cap it.

However, I think we miss out on some students who used to come to Rice due to its value because the initial sticker price is climbing higher and higher. Because you have to dig a little bit to find out that the eventual cost of attendance for many students is much lower than the sticker prices, I think we no longer capture a market of potential students we used to.

It cuts both ways. There is certainly a cohort of desirable applicants who are sensitive to sticker price, even if it's not the same as actual price. But there is also a cohort of desirable applicants who simply don't care about price. If you have a low sticker price to capture more of the former cohort, then you necessarily capture less revenue from the latter group. I'm not sure what the optimal position is, but the dynamics are interesting.

I wonder if there would be a way to advertise two different tuition levels, without provoking a backlash? Obviously, state universities have done that forever ("in-state" versus "out-of-state" tuition) and people accept it. Southwest Airlines advertises three fare levels: Business Select, Anytime, and Wanna Get Away (i.e. leisure).

I don't know if a private university could get away, in the court of public opinion, with advertising "standard" and "premium" tuition levels. But what about different rates for early decision versus regular decision? I suspect there's a can o' worms there...

(03-22-2016 12:53 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 11:46 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 11:36 AM)JSA Wrote:  Snickering over the headline aside, Rice is on several Best Value and Most Affordable lists.

We're #5 on this one:

http://www.bestvalueschools.com/25-best-...versities/

The Financial Aid office also has a net price calculator:

http://financialaid.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=68

I haven't heard it mentioned as much lately, but for a while, Rice was stressing that if the only thing preventing a student from attending was money, they would find a solution.

Does Rice still cap the amount of debt they'll let a student incur?

Last I heard they still cap it.

However, I think we miss out on some students who used to come to Rice due to its value because the initial sticker price is climbing higher and higher. Because you have to dig a little bit to find out that the eventual cost of attendance for many students is much lower than the sticker prices, I think we no longer capture a market of potential students we used to.

It cuts both ways. There is certainly a cohort of desirable applicants who are sensitive to sticker price, even if it's not the same as actual price. But there is also a cohort of desirable applicants who simply don't care about price. If you have a low sticker price to capture more of the former cohort, then you necessarily capture less revenue from the latter group. I'm not sure what the optimal position is, but the dynamics are interesting.

I wonder if there would be a way to advertise two different tuition levels, without provoking a backlash? Obviously, state universities have done that forever ("in-state" versus "out-of-state" tuition) and people accept it. Southwest Airlines advertises three fare levels: Business Select, Anytime, and Wanna Get Away (i.e. leisure).

I don't know if a private university could get away, in the court of public opinion, with advertising "standard" and "premium" tuition levels. But what about different rates for early decision versus regular decision? I suspect there's a can o' worms there...

I attended a Rice admissions information session with my daughter two weeks ago, and Rice still has a 'need blind' admissions policy. All demonstrated financial need will be met (using Federal guidelines to determine need). For those with demonstrated need, Rice guarantees that they will graduate with no more than $10k of loans.

The wording on all of this was very precise, and I'm sure that I don't have it quite right. I suspect that there are graduates with more than $10k of loans, but they have likely borrowed more than the formulas said they had to.

I also learned that 20% of admitted students are offered merit aid. That number seems to have dropped quite a bit over the years, and I would expect it to be a significant factor in the difference between posted and effective tuition levels.

(03-22-2016 11:50 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 11:45 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I wonder if he will next crusade for new car stickers to list the price that a deal will be made at.

Congratulations on post #26,000 OptimisticOwl.

To be fair, nowhere near all of them, maybe not even half, were on the Parliament.

But your congratulations are taken in the spirit in which they are offered.

(03-22-2016 02:56 PM)Owlbert Patrick Wrote:  I attended a Rice admissions information session with my daughter two weeks ago, and Rice still has a 'need blind' admissions policy. All demonstrated financial need will be met (using Federal guidelines to determine need). For those with demonstrated need, Rice guarantees that they will graduate with no more than $10k of loans.

The wording on all of this was very precise, and I'm sure that I don't have it quite right. I suspect that there are graduates with more than $10k of loans, but they have likely borrowed more than the formulas said they had to.

I believe the $10K loan cap applies only to those loans taken on by the students themselves, but not to their parents/families. It's definitely a good deal for students, as the Federal cap for students is $7K/year, or $28K for 4 years. But especially if you're a middle-income household in a high-cost state (Calif./NY etc) with more than one child, you'll find that the "demonstrated need" that colleges assign you (which is at or below the Federal FAFSA calcs) will be far, far less than you can actually afford to pay. But pay -- or borrow -- you must.

(03-22-2016 02:56 PM)Owlbert Patrick Wrote:  I attended a Rice admissions information session with my daughter two weeks ago ...
I also learned that 20% of admitted students are offered merit aid. That number seems to have dropped quite a bit over the years, and I would expect it to be a significant factor in the difference between posted and effective tuition levels.

Holy cow that does seem surprising. That certainly supports one of the recruiting challenges in the equivalency sports like baseball: if in fact Tulane or TCU can offer merit aid to many or most of their equivalency athletes, while we can only offer merit aid to roughly 1/5 of ours, that's a pretty big difference.

(03-22-2016 04:51 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:56 PM)Owlbert Patrick Wrote:  I attended a Rice admissions information session with my daughter two weeks ago ...
I also learned that 20% of admitted students are offered merit aid. That number seems to have dropped quite a bit over the years, and I would expect it to be a significant factor in the difference between posted and effective tuition levels.

Holy cow that does seem surprising. That certainly supports one of the recruiting challenges in the equivalency sports like baseball: if in fact Tulane or TCU can offer merit aid to many or most of their equivalency athletes, while we can only offer merit aid to roughly 1/5 of ours, that's a pretty big difference.

Not surprising at all. When applying to colleges in 07-08 almost none of the top tier private schools offer much merit aid. Rice was the only school I recall that actually made a point that they offer merit aid separate from financial need.

If I recall correctly UVA also doesn't offer any merit aid for out of state kids unless you count the standard National Merit scholarship that is added at every school. So attending a public like UVA as an out of state student would've cost far more than Rice.

Vandy offered a few merit scholarships. One of my HS classmates received an almost full ride on a "Class of 'XX" scholarship so he chose Vandy over Rice. Purdue had some generous scholarships but they were highly competitive, think 10 incoming students (Beering is full ride plus some). Northwestern, Duke, WashU etc. didn't advertise any at all which makes them very very expensive.

(03-22-2016 04:40 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:56 PM)Owlbert Patrick Wrote:  I attended a Rice admissions information session with my daughter two weeks ago, and Rice still has a 'need blind' admissions policy. All demonstrated financial need will be met (using Federal guidelines to determine need). For those with demonstrated need, Rice guarantees that they will graduate with no more than $10k of loans.

The wording on all of this was very precise, and I'm sure that I don't have it quite right. I suspect that there are graduates with more than $10k of loans, but they have likely borrowed more than the formulas said they had to.

I believe the $10K loan cap applies only to those loans taken on by the students themselves, but not to their parents/families. It's definitely a good deal for students, as the Federal cap for students is $7K/year, or $28K for 4 years. But especially if you're a middle-income household in a high-cost state (Calif./NY etc) with more than one child, you'll find that the "demonstrated need" that colleges assign you (which is at or below the Federal FAFSA calcs) will be far, far less than you can actually afford to pay. But pay -- or borrow -- you must.

The $10k cap is only on loans offered directly by Rice and at $2500/year, iirc.

My FAFSA changed once my sister got out of college so I needed loans to cover the last two years. I could only get $2500/year from that loan program then had to get additional loans to cover the rest. All in I had more than $15k when I graduated. I know of one person who was over $70k

Rice should create some bumper stickers to indicate the value rating

(03-22-2016 11:36 AM)JSA Wrote:  Snickering over the headline aside, Rice is on several Best Value and Most Affordable lists.

We're #5 on this one:

http://www.bestvalueschools.com/25-best-...versities/

The Financial Aid office also has a net price calculator:

http://financialaid.rice.edu/Content.aspx?id=68

I haven't heard it mentioned as much lately, but for a while, Rice was stressing that if the only thing preventing a student from attending was money, they would find a solution.

Does Rice still cap the amount of debt they'll let a student incur?

I wish someone would give on the condition that the tuition hike be rescinded. It would probably cost less than a new building. Another possibility would be to use the $10 million athletic subsidy to avoid tuition hikes, but that should only be considered if the football team continues to be blown out at home by the likes of WKU, So Miss and Louisiana Tech and we continue to be stuck in a minor league conference.

(03-28-2016 02:04 PM)75src Wrote:  I wish someone would give on the condition that the tuition hike be rescinded. It would probably cost less than a new building. Another possibility would be to use the $10 million athletic subsidy to avoid tuition hikes, but that should only be considered if the football team continues to be blown out at home by the likes of WKU, So Miss and Louisiana Tech and we continue to be stuck in a minor league conference.

The more useful thing to do would be to keep expenses down by firing the useless administration universities have acquired over the years.

Meanwhile, not a peep -- at least not at chron.com/sports/ or chron.com/sports/rice -- about men's tennis or baseball victories.

Saw only the score in the paper this morning. Also, cutting back on useless administrators sounds like a good way to stop tuition creep.

(03-28-2016 02:23 PM)Bailiff_Lingo_Bingo Wrote:  Meanwhile, not a peep -- at least not at chron.com/sports/ or chron.com/sports/rice -- about men's tennis or baseball victories.