(03-23-2016 10:15 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Also, note that the MAC offered UMass full membership so clearly they were willing to accept their crappy football program if it meant they received their basketball program. Once UMass said they weren't going to become a full member, the MAC had no desire to keep them for football.

The MAC knew UMass wasn't accepting the offer; it was a calculated risk to remove an imbalance in the conference.

The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

It's odd, these "fans" of B1G schools always wind up on here every few months talking up the MVC and specifically Ill St (like you've done repeatedly) and trashing NIU specifically (like you're doing and have done repeatedly) and the arguments never get original. What is your obsession? Too worried of getting banned again from the NIU board so you're running here to trash talk? I'm sure the "replace/pair NIU with Ill St" angle will pop up soon... it's just starting to look a tad bit pathetic

Also you're grossly misinformed. NIU had a few televised games this year. Ball St (which was televised) actually had a fairly good turnout for a team in the first year of a turnaround (around 3k)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

I feel this is a what came 1st the chicken or the egg scenario. Winning is needed to get fans interested, but at same time nobody wants to watch a MAC school face MEAC, SWAC, and D2 cupcakes.

The MAC as a whole needs better coaches that can get more out of their players and they need to find a way to keep the coaches when they do find them. The Zips have 5 regular season wins vs. P5 teams over the last 4 seasons. I read somewhere that the other 11 MAC have a combined 2 over that same 4 year time span. Those are the teams the casual fan knows. Penn State might not be a good basketball school, but a win over them will build much more credibility with your fan base than Coppin State or insert college you never heard of unless they appeared on your teams home schedule.

I'm not saying Akron is without fault. Year after year they have came up short come postseason time, but that doesn't mean other teams in the conference can't learn something from them. If you can't beat MSU, don't schedule them year after year. Take 5k-10k less and play Nebraska, Penn State, 1/2 the SEC teams (aka the schools that have big names because they are in big football conferences, but their basketball programs are lacking).

(03-25-2016 11:12 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

It's odd, these "fans" of B1G schools always wind up on here every few months talking up the MVC and specifically Ill St (like you've done repeatedly) and trashing NIU specifically (like you're doing and have done repeatedly) and the arguments never get original. What is your obsession? Too worried of getting banned again from the NIU board so you're running here to trash talk? I'm sure the "replace/pair NIU with Ill St" angle will pop up soon... it's just starting to look a tad bit pathetic

Also you're grossly misinformed. NIU had a few televised games this year. Ball St (which was televised) actually had a fairly good turnout for a team in the first year of a turnaround (around 3k)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I see one game on Big Ten Network (Ohio St) and one game on CBSSN..wow

Fairly good crowd is 3000? LOL MVC has been averaging about 5500

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

Both of you touch on the major challenges here.

First I will say the fallback option if a player can't find a top B1G or ACC program to play for its to play at a Big East school. Between the B1G, ACC and Big East there are 39 programs all of which have higher status than any MAC school, even a Providence or Wake Forest.

The multibid example at the next level down in conferences is the Atlantic 10 conference. What they've been able to do is continually pluck the top mid major schools in the East to saturate the talent. Dayton from the Great Midwest, St. Louis from CUSA, Davidson from the Southern, Richmond, VCU and George Mason from the Colonial. At 14 schools from North Carolina to Massachusetts they have sucked up all the mid major value.

Further in the A10 they have coaches like Phil Martelli who have had tremendous success and they've stuck around well paid at their school. The only coach that remotely is in the same category is Dambrot of Akron. Ohio is trying to get there with Saul Phillips the highest paid employee at the university. The MAC has stepped up coaching salaries in recent years and its correlated with improved results on the court.

The key is the top 3-4 programs paying coaches to keep them, playing schedules that are NCAA worthy and most importantly showing up in big games when it counts which the MAC doesn't do very often anymore.

Also to tie back to realignment, it wouldn't hurt if the MAC could add Milwaukee and UI-Chicago for basketball. At 14 basketball schools that would further saturate the Midwest like the A10 does with the East Coast plus add some urban names on the basketball side. They wouldn't get a cut of the MAC's CFP money or TV deal money without football so there is no fear of splitting the pie more ways.

Then maybe some day if NIU/Toledo decide to leave backfill with Illinois State and Northern Iowa. I definitely think building in the Midwest is the way to go, taking bites out of the MVC and Horizon League in the process. Trying to play in the East with Albany/Stony Brook won't get the MAC anywhere.

(03-25-2016 11:48 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:12 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

It's odd, these "fans" of B1G schools always wind up on here every few months talking up the MVC and specifically Ill St (like you've done repeatedly) and trashing NIU specifically (like you're doing and have done repeatedly) and the arguments never get original. What is your obsession? Too worried of getting banned again from the NIU board so you're running here to trash talk? I'm sure the "replace/pair NIU with Ill St" angle will pop up soon... it's just starting to look a tad bit pathetic

Also you're grossly misinformed. NIU had a few televised games this year. Ball St (which was televised) actually had a fairly good turnout for a team in the first year of a turnaround (around 3k)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I see one game on Big Ten Network (Ohio St) and one game on CBSSN..wow

Fairly good crowd is 3000? LOL MVC has been averaging about 5500

Two is much more than the "none" you claimed. Also 3000 is fairly good for NIU in a turnaround year like i said, we had been HISTORICALLY bad not too long ago, i expect better numbers for attendance next year with the buzz i saw generated from the end of the basketball season plus we have the Vegas 16 (i choose to believe the 16 is the year the tournament is taking place, not the number of teams) as more national TV time if we survive the first round.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

(03-25-2016 12:01 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:48 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:12 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

It's odd, these "fans" of B1G schools always wind up on here every few months talking up the MVC and specifically Ill St (like you've done repeatedly) and trashing NIU specifically (like you're doing and have done repeatedly) and the arguments never get original. What is your obsession? Too worried of getting banned again from the NIU board so you're running here to trash talk? I'm sure the "replace/pair NIU with Ill St" angle will pop up soon... it's just starting to look a tad bit pathetic

Also you're grossly misinformed. NIU had a few televised games this year. Ball St (which was televised) actually had a fairly good turnout for a team in the first year of a turnaround (around 3k)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I see one game on Big Ten Network (Ohio St) and one game on CBSSN..wow

Fairly good crowd is 3000? LOL MVC has been averaging about 5500

Two is much more than the "none" you claimed. Also 3000 is fairly good for NIU in a turnaround year like i said, we had been HISTORICALLY bad not too long ago, i expect better numbers for attendance next year with the buzz i saw generated from the end of the basketball season plus we have the Vegas 16 (i choose to believe the 16 is the yeat taking place, not the number of teams) as more national TV time if we survive the first round.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Bradley was historically awful this year and had a few crowds over 6000

If you are an Illinois HS basketball player and had your option of NIU, SIU, ISU, Bradley or Loyola.. How many will choose NIU over any of those?

(03-25-2016 11:42 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

I feel this is a what came 1st the chicken or the egg scenario. Winning is needed to get fans interested, but at same time nobody wants to watch a MAC school face MEAC, SWAC, and D2 cupcakes.

The MAC as a whole needs better coaches that can get more out of their players and they need to find a way to keep the coaches when they do find them. The Zips have 5 regular season wins vs. P5 teams over the last 4 seasons. I read somewhere that the other 11 MAC have a combined 2 over that same 4 year time span. Those are the teams the casual fan knows. Penn State might not be a good basketball school, but a win over them will build much more credibility with your fan base than Coppin State or insert college you never heard of unless they appeared on your teams home schedule.

I'm not saying Akron is without fault. Year after year they have came up short come postseason time, but that doesn't mean other teams in the conference can't learn something from them. If you can't beat MSU, don't schedule them year after year. Take 5k-10k less and play Nebraska, Penn State, 1/2 the SEC teams (aka the schools that have big names because they are in big football conferences, but their basketball programs are lacking).

P5 names are not as important in hoops... Sorry but a lot of the really good hoops schools are not in the P5.

(03-25-2016 12:09 PM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 12:01 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:48 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:12 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

It's odd, these "fans" of B1G schools always wind up on here every few months talking up the MVC and specifically Ill St (like you've done repeatedly) and trashing NIU specifically (like you're doing and have done repeatedly) and the arguments never get original. What is your obsession? Too worried of getting banned again from the NIU board so you're running here to trash talk? I'm sure the "replace/pair NIU with Ill St" angle will pop up soon... it's just starting to look a tad bit pathetic

Also you're grossly misinformed. NIU had a few televised games this year. Ball St (which was televised) actually had a fairly good turnout for a team in the first year of a turnaround (around 3k)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I see one game on Big Ten Network (Ohio St) and one game on CBSSN..wow

Fairly good crowd is 3000? LOL MVC has been averaging about 5500

Two is much more than the "none" you claimed. Also 3000 is fairly good for NIU in a turnaround year like i said, we had been HISTORICALLY bad not too long ago, i expect better numbers for attendance next year with the buzz i saw generated from the end of the basketball season plus we have the Vegas 16 (i choose to believe the 16 is the yeat taking place, not the number of teams) as more national TV time if we survive the first round.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Bradley was historically awful this year and had a few crowds over 6000

If you are an Illinois HS basketball player and had your option of NIU, SIU, ISU, Bradley or Loyola.. How many will choose NIU over any of those?

Obviously, better basketball players are choosing NIU. Bradley can keep the ones that are choosing them. NIU wouldn't want them. It's stupid to think players choose schools because of attendance at their games.

(03-25-2016 12:33 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 12:09 PM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 12:01 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:48 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:12 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  It's odd, these "fans" of B1G schools always wind up on here every few months talking up the MVC and specifically Ill St (like you've done repeatedly) and trashing NIU specifically (like you're doing and have done repeatedly) and the arguments never get original. What is your obsession? Too worried of getting banned again from the NIU board so you're running here to trash talk? I'm sure the "replace/pair NIU with Ill St" angle will pop up soon... it's just starting to look a tad bit pathetic

Also you're grossly misinformed. NIU had a few televised games this year. Ball St (which was televised) actually had a fairly good turnout for a team in the first year of a turnaround (around 3k)

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I see one game on Big Ten Network (Ohio St) and one game on CBSSN..wow

Fairly good crowd is 3000? LOL MVC has been averaging about 5500

Two is much more than the "none" you claimed. Also 3000 is fairly good for NIU in a turnaround year like i said, we had been HISTORICALLY bad not too long ago, i expect better numbers for attendance next year with the buzz i saw generated from the end of the basketball season plus we have the Vegas 16 (i choose to believe the 16 is the yeat taking place, not the number of teams) as more national TV time if we survive the first round.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Bradley was historically awful this year and had a few crowds over 6000

If you are an Illinois HS basketball player and had your option of NIU, SIU, ISU, Bradley or Loyola.. How many will choose NIU over any of those?

Obviously, better basketball players are choosing NIU. Bradley can keep the ones that are choosing them. NIU wouldn't want them. It's stupid to think players choose schools because of attendance at their games.

So if you are a high school kid and visit NIU with 1200 people in the seats against Western Michigan or visit Bradley with 7000 against Illinois St... which atmosphere is more appealing?

(03-25-2016 11:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

Both of you touch on the major challenges here.

First I will say the fallback option if a player can't find a top B1G or ACC program to play for its to play at a Big East school. Between the B1G, ACC and Big East there are 39 programs all of which have higher status than any MAC school, even a Providence or Wake Forest.

The multibid example at the next level down in conferences is the Atlantic 10 conference. What they've been able to do is continually pluck the top mid major schools in the East to saturate the talent. Dayton from the Great Midwest, St. Louis from CUSA, Davidson from the Southern, Richmond, VCU and George Mason from the Colonial. At 14 schools from North Carolina to Massachusetts they have sucked up all the mid major value.

Further in the A10 they have coaches like Phil Martelli who have had tremendous success and they've stuck around well paid at their school. The only coach that remotely is in the same category is Dambrot of Akron. Ohio is trying to get there with Saul Phillips the highest paid employee at the university. The MAC has stepped up coaching salaries in recent years and its correlated with improved results on the court.

The key is the top 3-4 programs paying coaches to keep them, playing schedules that are NCAA worthy and most importantly showing up in big games when it counts which the MAC doesn't do very often anymore.

Also to tie back to realignment, it wouldn't hurt if the MAC could add Milwaukee and UI-Chicago for basketball. At 14 basketball schools that would further saturate the Midwest like the A10 does with the East Coast plus add some urban names on the basketball side. They wouldn't get a cut of the MAC's CFP money or TV deal money without football so there is no fear of splitting the pie more ways.

Then maybe some day if NIU/Toledo decide to leave backfill with Illinois State and Northern Iowa. I definitely think building in the Midwest is the way to go, taking bites out of the MVC and Horizon League in the process. Trying to play in the East with Albany/Stony Brook won't get the MAC anywhere.

(03-25-2016 12:29 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:42 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

I feel this is a what came 1st the chicken or the egg scenario. Winning is needed to get fans interested, but at same time nobody wants to watch a MAC school face MEAC, SWAC, and D2 cupcakes.

The MAC as a whole needs better coaches that can get more out of their players and they need to find a way to keep the coaches when they do find them. The Zips have 5 regular season wins vs. P5 teams over the last 4 seasons. I read somewhere that the other 11 MAC have a combined 2 over that same 4 year time span. Those are the teams the casual fan knows. Penn State might not be a good basketball school, but a win over them will build much more credibility with your fan base than Coppin State or insert college you never heard of unless they appeared on your teams home schedule.

I'm not saying Akron is without fault. Year after year they have came up short come postseason time, but that doesn't mean other teams in the conference can't learn something from them. If you can't beat MSU, don't schedule them year after year. Take 5k-10k less and play Nebraska, Penn State, 1/2 the SEC teams (aka the schools that have big names because they are in big football conferences, but their basketball programs are lacking).

P5 names are not as important in hoops... Sorry but a lot of the really good hoops schools are not in the P5.

That's pretty irrelevant to the point that I was getting to in regards to how to make the team relevant in their local market. The casual fan hears you beat Penn State, Arkansas, or USC and he thinks wow those are some pretty big name schools. Little does he know schools like Northern Illinois, Arkansas-Little Rock, or Monmouth are all better.

1 win over a mediocre OSU this year would have meant more to the fans than 5 wins over Monmouth even though Monmouth was regarded as the better team this year.

(03-25-2016 11:42 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

I feel this is a what came 1st the chicken or the egg scenario. Winning is needed to get fans interested, but at same time nobody wants to watch a MAC school face MEAC, SWAC, and D2 cupcakes.

The MAC as a whole needs better coaches that can get more out of their players and they need to find a way to keep the coaches when they do find them. The Zips have 5 regular season wins vs. P5 teams over the last 4 seasons. I read somewhere that the other 11 MAC have a combined 2 over that same 4 year time span. Those are the teams the casual fan knows. Penn State might not be a good basketball school, but a win over them will build much more credibility with your fan base than Coppin State or insert college you never heard of unless they appeared on your teams home schedule.

I'm not saying Akron is without fault. Year after year they have came up short come postseason time, but that doesn't mean other teams in the conference can't learn something from them. If you can't beat MSU, don't schedule them year after year. Take 5k-10k less and play Nebraska, Penn State, 1/2 the SEC teams (aka the schools that have big names because they are in big football conferences, but their basketball programs are lacking).

Until the MAC starts paying MAC basketball coaches like MAC football coaches ... I doubt there is much chagrin over more than one coach in the league ... as it stands Saul, Keno, Kowalczyk, Coop, Dambrot, Hawkins (DII) are all head coach retreads w/Coop being the only ??? in the bunch ... the rest are first-time head coaches who all (Murph, Whitford, Oats, Senderoff, Huger, Monty) seem like pretty solid hires at their respective spots ... and certainly all those schools could do worse ... you get what you pay for ... frankly, it looks like the MAC is getting their $$$$ worth.

(03-25-2016 12:49 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:42 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

I feel this is a what came 1st the chicken or the egg scenario. Winning is needed to get fans interested, but at same time nobody wants to watch a MAC school face MEAC, SWAC, and D2 cupcakes.

The MAC as a whole needs better coaches that can get more out of their players and they need to find a way to keep the coaches when they do find them. The Zips have 5 regular season wins vs. P5 teams over the last 4 seasons. I read somewhere that the other 11 MAC have a combined 2 over that same 4 year time span. Those are the teams the casual fan knows. Penn State might not be a good basketball school, but a win over them will build much more credibility with your fan base than Coppin State or insert college you never heard of unless they appeared on your teams home schedule.

I'm not saying Akron is without fault. Year after year they have came up short come postseason time, but that doesn't mean other teams in the conference can't learn something from them. If you can't beat MSU, don't schedule them year after year. Take 5k-10k less and play Nebraska, Penn State, 1/2 the SEC teams (aka the schools that have big names because they are in big football conferences, but their basketball programs are lacking).

Until the MAC starts paying MAC basketball coaches like MAC football coaches ... I doubt there is much chagrin over more than one coach in the league ... as it stands Saul, Keno, Kowalczyk, Coop, Dambrot, Hawkins (DII) are all head coach retreads w/Coop being the only ??? in the bunch ... the rest are first-time head coaches who all (Murph, Whitford, Oats, Senderoff, Huger, Monty) seem like pretty solid hires at their respective spots ... and certainly all those schools could do worse ... you get what you pay for ... frankly, it looks like the MAC is getting their $$$$ worth.

Here is another point; there is no reason to pay MAC coaches too much money until they perform.

There are coaches in the A10 that are over 1 million but that is because they have performed at their schools. Most A10 programs start their coaches off in the 300-400k range like the MAC is doing BUT when they have big success they pay up the $$$ to keep them which the MAC generally does not do.

That is beginning to change. Saul's package was 850k to start, which is about what you'd get paid at an average Big East school. Ohio's AD was previously at Wichita State and they are using the Wichita model to build their program.

(03-25-2016 02:15 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 12:49 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 11:42 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 09:57 AM)Swampbutt Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 11:48 PM)DICK Wrote:  The MAC RPI used to always drop once we started MAC play. The last two years it has risen. RPI is basically determined by winning percentages of your opponents and your opponents' opponents. We are gaming the system, which we have copied from power 5 teams. Even if you play poor teams at home, if everybody in the league enters MAC play with .500 or better records, then once we start playing each other we will be picking up wins over teams with a good winning percentage and RPI's rise. I think this year 10 of the 12 teams were above .500 nonleague and noone was worse than a game under. That is the hidden RPI benefit of playing 200-350 RPI teams at home and beating them.

Now in order to get someone an at large bid, we need the top 3 or 4 teams to play tougher schedules and pick up a few top 50 type wins. Then when they get to conference play their RPI will stay high or even go up because they will still be playing teams with.500 or better winning percentages. But everybody else needs to do what they did this year, somehow get into January with a winning record vs D-1 teams.

But will low fan support and attendence, it's going to be hard to recruit the type of kids that's needed to beat top 50 schools. In Illinois, how can NIU recruit against the Illinois MVC schools when they are drawing 5000 fans a game and NIU is getting 1200? When MVC games pop up on ESPN and I am not sure NIU had a game on TV this year.

I feel this is a what came 1st the chicken or the egg scenario. Winning is needed to get fans interested, but at same time nobody wants to watch a MAC school face MEAC, SWAC, and D2 cupcakes.

The MAC as a whole needs better coaches that can get more out of their players and they need to find a way to keep the coaches when they do find them. The Zips have 5 regular season wins vs. P5 teams over the last 4 seasons. I read somewhere that the other 11 MAC have a combined 2 over that same 4 year time span. Those are the teams the casual fan knows. Penn State might not be a good basketball school, but a win over them will build much more credibility with your fan base than Coppin State or insert college you never heard of unless they appeared on your teams home schedule.

I'm not saying Akron is without fault. Year after year they have came up short come postseason time, but that doesn't mean other teams in the conference can't learn something from them. If you can't beat MSU, don't schedule them year after year. Take 5k-10k less and play Nebraska, Penn State, 1/2 the SEC teams (aka the schools that have big names because they are in big football conferences, but their basketball programs are lacking).

Until the MAC starts paying MAC basketball coaches like MAC football coaches ... I doubt there is much chagrin over more than one coach in the league ... as it stands Saul, Keno, Kowalczyk, Coop, Dambrot, Hawkins (DII) are all head coach retreads w/Coop being the only ??? in the bunch ... the rest are first-time head coaches who all (Murph, Whitford, Oats, Senderoff, Huger, Monty) seem like pretty solid hires at their respective spots ... and certainly all those schools could do worse ... you get what you pay for ... frankly, it looks like the MAC is getting their $$$$ worth.

Here is another point; there is no reason to pay MAC coaches too much money until they perform.

There are coaches in the A10 that are over 1 million but that is because they have performed at their schools. Most A10 programs start their coaches off in the 300-400k range like the MAC is doing BUT when they have big success they pay up the $$$ to keep them which the MAC generally does not do.

That is beginning to change. Saul's package was 850k to start, which is about what you'd get paid at an average Big East school. Ohio's AD was previously at Wichita State and they are using the Wichita model to build their program.

Good p[oint ... except only MAC coaches starting at 3-400 are the retreads ... most of the firsttime coaches start well below that ... would even bet that Murph and Senderoff, who are on their second deals, are still under 4-k ...

How many non-major programs pay their hoops coaches $700k+ AND have FBS football?

Senderhoff is a special situation as Kent gets him on a discount due to the fact that when they brought him over he was recently involved with a scandal. Kent gave him a chance since we knew him personally and so we got to start him lower than we otherwise could do and give him raises based on criteria.

(03-25-2016 02:15 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is another point; there is no reason to pay MAC coaches too much money until they perform.

There are coaches in the A10 that are over 1 million but that is because they have performed at their schools. Most A10 programs start their coaches off in the 300-400k range like the MAC is doing BUT when they have big success they pay up the $$$ to keep them which the MAC generally does not do.

That is beginning to change. Saul's package was 850k to start, which is about what you'd get paid at an average Big East school. Ohio's AD was previously at Wichita State and they are using the Wichita model to build their program.

I thought Sauls Salary was in the mid 500,000's. Or by package are you talking about with performance incentives?

(03-25-2016 09:46 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-25-2016 02:15 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Here is another point; there is no reason to pay MAC coaches too much money until they perform.

There are coaches in the A10 that are over 1 million but that is because they have performed at their schools. Most A10 programs start their coaches off in the 300-400k range like the MAC is doing BUT when they have big success they pay up the $$$ to keep them which the MAC generally does not do.

That is beginning to change. Saul's package was 850k to start, which is about what you'd get paid at an average Big East school. Ohio's AD was previously at Wichita State and they are using the Wichita model to build their program.

I thought Sauls Salary was in the mid 500,000's. Or by package are you talking about with performance incentives?

That's what I thought too but it must not include some of the guaranteed media money. The number is 750k, not the 850k I quoted.

Aside from Greg Marshall at Wichita State, MAC basketball coaches make more money than coaches in the MVC.

MAC Basketball Coaches
Jim Christian, Ohio (left for Boston College in April 2014)/Saul Phillips - $751,934
Keith Dambrot, Akron - $660,208
Todd Kowalczyk, Toledo - $647,741
Steve Hawkins, Western Michigan - $544,659
Keno Davis, Central Michigan - $383,562
James Whitford, Ball State - $344,360
John Cooper, Miami - $339,837
Louis Orr (fired)/Chris Jans, Bowling Green - $338,146
Bobby Hurley, Buffalo - $319,264
Mark Montgomery, NIU - $316,140
Rob Murphy, Eastern Michigan - $306,476
Rob Senderoff, Kent State - $271,511

MVC Basketball Coaches
Gregg Marshall - Wichita State, $1,850,000
Geno Ford - Bradley, $750,000
Ben Jacobson - Northern Iowa, $600,000
Dan Mueller - Illinois State, $401,200
Ray Giacoletti - Drake, $400,000
Paul Lusk - Missouri State, $396,000
Barry Hinson - Southern Illinois, $300,000
Greg Lansing - Indiana State, $262,000
Marty Simmons - Evansville, $200,000

http://csnbbs.com/thread-754244-post-125...id12564682