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The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #61
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 09:15 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Congrats to the ACC for your wins over

#16 FGCU
#16 Hampton
#15 Middle Tennessee
#14 Buffalo
#14 SF Austin
#13 UNC Wilmington
#12 Yale
#11 Wichita St
#11 Michigan
#9 Providence
#9 Butler
#7 Dayton


Seriously, are we supposed to be impressed by this? Your average MAC team could run through that group and knock off a half dozen wins or so.

The ACC beat what was put in front of them...lucky draws...some yes...but they weren't getting upset by higher seeds like the other Power Conferences.
03-21-2016 10:31 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #62
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 09:15 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Seriously, are we supposed to be impressed by this? Your average MAC team could run through that group and knock off a half dozen wins or so.

If this were true, the MAC wouldn't be a one-bid league.

But enjoy the tasty, refreshing HAterade. It's got electrolytes.
03-21-2016 10:33 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #63
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 07:57 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-20-2016 11:26 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Well, unfortunately, that is the way things are heading anyway - which is what the Mendoza Line thread was about. At some point down the road, the P5 is likely to attempt getting rid of some of the "low majors" but mid-majors and up will remain. So in this regard, the mid-majors could get more teams in as a result as well.

But the reason the Mendoza Line thread makes no sense is that VCU taking an at-large from South Carolina is a bigger irritant to the P5 than Weber STate taking home a tournament credit.

The math doesn't make any kind of sense for a "Drop the lower half of Division I" setup. For the math to work, you need to kill the NCAA which takes a sizable cut, and then the P5 looks carefully at who it invites to the new party. Maybe the Big EAst, maybe the G5, maybe the A-10--or maybe lean on the G5 to hand out a half-dozen invites to nonfootball schools (VCU, Dayton, Wichita State, Gonzaga, maybe SLU). Or maybe 65 is enough, pull up the drawbridge and call it a day.

GEtting rid of the "low majors" doesn't net enough tournament money to pay to put Cincinatti in the Big 12. Think about it that way.

In the Mendoza thread...VCU is actually part of the club...they made the cut. This isn't a P5 exclusive club...the BE, A-10, MVC, Ivy, etc...are all eligible to get multiple teams

The math works out because you free up 10-12 units from the bottom feeders. I would think the tourney would get back to 64 and that would free up 2 more unit.

Maybe the NIT could take those lower major teams? Or a whole new tournament is designed.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2016 10:39 AM by TexanMark.)
03-21-2016 10:37 AM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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Post: #64
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
With two #1s in good position, the ACC would still be having a good tourney even without the first weekend upset avoidance. The upset avoidance of the first two rounds (which I do think it in large part is luck- every year there are upsets but usually they are more spread around than this year) has turned it into a great tourney.
03-21-2016 10:44 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #65
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 09:15 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Congrats to the ACC for your wins over

#16 FGCU
#16 Hampton
#15 Middle Tennessee
#14 Buffalo
#14 SF Austin
#13 UNC Wilmington
#12 Yale
#11 Wichita St
#11 Michigan
#9 Providence
#9 Butler
#7 Dayton

Seriously, are we supposed to be impressed by this? Your average MAC team could run through that group and knock off a half dozen wins or so.

[Image: x354-q80.jpg]
03-21-2016 10:44 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #66
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
I've been very impressed with the Big East and A-10...really good conferences. I think the Big East is the 3rd best conference this year...the A-10 not too far behind.

I think the ACC gets 2-4 teams into the Elite 8...2 teams into the F4.
03-21-2016 10:46 AM
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Frog in the Kitchen Sink Offline
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Post: #67
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 10:46 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  I've been very impressed with the Big East and A-10...really good conferences. I think the Big East is the 3rd best conference this year...the A-10 not too far behind.

I think the ACC gets 2-4 teams into the Elite 8...2 teams into the F4.

According to 538 numbers, if the sweet sixteen was played out thousands of times, the ACC would average 1.62 teams, the Big 12 1.02, and everyone else 1.35 teams (with Big 10 heading the list with .42 teams on average). So basically most likely scenario is 2 ACC teams, 1 Big 12 and 1 someone else.
03-21-2016 10:52 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #68
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 10:37 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 07:57 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-20-2016 11:26 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Well, unfortunately, that is the way things are heading anyway - which is what the Mendoza Line thread was about. At some point down the road, the P5 is likely to attempt getting rid of some of the "low majors" but mid-majors and up will remain. So in this regard, the mid-majors could get more teams in as a result as well.

But the reason the Mendoza Line thread makes no sense is that VCU taking an at-large from South Carolina is a bigger irritant to the P5 than Weber STate taking home a tournament credit.

The math doesn't make any kind of sense for a "Drop the lower half of Division I" setup. For the math to work, you need to kill the NCAA which takes a sizable cut, and then the P5 looks carefully at who it invites to the new party. Maybe the Big EAst, maybe the G5, maybe the A-10--or maybe lean on the G5 to hand out a half-dozen invites to nonfootball schools (VCU, Dayton, Wichita State, Gonzaga, maybe SLU). Or maybe 65 is enough, pull up the drawbridge and call it a day.

GEtting rid of the "low majors" doesn't net enough tournament money to pay to put Cincinatti in the Big 12. Think about it that way.

In the Mendoza thread...VCU is actually part of the club...they made the cut. This isn't a P5 exclusive club...the BE, A-10, MVC, Ivy, etc...are all eligible to get multiple teams

The math works out because you free up 10-12 units from the bottom feeders. I would think the tourney would get back to 64 and that would free up 2 more unit.

10 units is $15M over 6 years. LHN money. I picked VCU for a reason.

The $15M that the bottom 10 leagues (your targets) or maybe $25M for the bottom 15 is not enough money to make a different to the power-conference powers-that-be.

What does irritate the powers-that-be is when they don't make the Tournament. That can cost them, personally, their job--and they don't like that.

The other irritant is that the credits are about $1.5M x 128 or so, around $192M. The NCAA takes in $771M from the TV contract. So about 3/4 of the TV money doesn't go back to the schools in the form of credits. (My numbers seem off here, as NCAA page with chart from 2011-12 gives the Basketball fund as $202M four years ago.

If the P5 decides that it's time to blow up the Tournament as it is, to get themselves a bigger share of the pie, it's not going to be limited to kicking out the bottom half of Division I to squeeze a few million dollars a year out of St Francis and Northwest Tech's tournament credits.
03-21-2016 10:59 AM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #69
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
How many tournament credits has the ACC program currently on probation with its accrediting agency for 23 years of admitted academic fraud, and facing sentencing by the NCAA for five level one infractions including Lack of Institutional Control (the worst charge in the book) going to receive?

How is it that they are allowed to compete in this tournament or keep any if that money?
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2016 12:53 PM by Artifice.)
03-21-2016 12:45 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #70
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
Don't care who the opponents/matchups have been - the ACC getting 6 schools into the Sweet 16 is an unbelievable accomplishment. It would be pretty cool for one conference to get 3 (or even 4) schools into the Final Four. Talk about dominance.
03-21-2016 01:03 PM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #71
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 12:45 PM)Artifice Wrote:  How many tournament credits has the ACC program currently on probation with its accrediting agency for 23 years of admitted academic fraud, and facing sentencing by the NCAA for five level one infractions including Lack of Institutional Control (the worst charge in the book) going to receive?

How is it that they are allowed to compete in this tournament or keep any if that money?

This is a good point actually. IMHO, if we want real change in college sports, the money needs to stop being funneled to schools / conferences who are found to have been cheating during the time period in which credits and bowl $$$ was made.
03-21-2016 01:51 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #72
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 01:51 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 12:45 PM)Artifice Wrote:  How many tournament credits has the ACC program currently on probation with its accrediting agency for 23 years of admitted academic fraud, and facing sentencing by the NCAA for five level one infractions including Lack of Institutional Control (the worst charge in the book) going to receive?

How is it that they are allowed to compete in this tournament or keep any if that money?

This is a good point actually. IMHO, if we want real change in college sports, the money needs to stop being funneled to schools / conferences who are found to have been cheating during the time period in which credits and bowl $$$ was made.

Investigation is not complete yet. There is so much to look at I guess.
03-21-2016 02:25 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #73
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
Are you guys writing about Syracuse or Louisville?
03-21-2016 04:32 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #74
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 10:33 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 09:15 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Seriously, are we supposed to be impressed by this? Your average MAC team could run through that group and knock off a half dozen wins or so.

If this were true, the MAC wouldn't be a one-bid league.

But enjoy the tasty, refreshing HAterade. It's got electrolytes.

a MAC team in the CBI is 3-1 vs that list.
03-21-2016 10:12 PM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 10:09 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 09:53 AM)dopeordogfood Wrote:  Apparently the ACC is the only conference where the 16 plays the 1 and the winner of the 8/9 game? The 2 plays the 15. If the 15 beats the 2, who's fault is that? 3 seed plays 14. 4 seed plays 13 seed. 5 seed plays 12 seed, etc

So when other conferences can't win 1st round games against severely lesser seed opponents like 2s losing to 15s, 4s losing to 13s, 6s to 11s, 5s to 12s and 7s to 10s, that's the fault of those higher seed teams, not the team forced to play them

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

It's not the ACC's fault. But if 6 teams in the Sweet 16 doesn't produce multiple teams in the Elite 8 and at least one team in the Final Four, that throws shade on the accomplishment. And when IF that happens, people will start to pick at the details.

Yes it's ridiculous to hang large theories on how a single shot landed, but that's how humans think. If the ACC craps the bed in the Sweet 16 (which there is no reason to think it will, but that's the premise of the discussion), We'll start to look at "how did that happen" and notice that #6 Notre Dame didn't have to play #3, that #3 Miami didn't have to play #6, that #10 Syracuse met a #15 in the Round of 21.

More likely, of course, is that the ACC puts 2 or 3 teams in the Final Four.

Agreed that if the ACC doesn't fair reasonably well in the S16 games, then some "shade" will be thrown on the accomplishment. Last year's 5 teams went strictly according to chalk/seed, while the BE's 5 in 2009 went chalk in those games with the exception of #3 over #2 Duke.

Honestly, the most the average fan is likely to remember from any tourney is who won it all because most fans are program fans, not conference fans.

I love this type of minutia, so it's interesting to me, but I recognize most won't. Heck, prior to the tourney starting I created a predict the number of NCAA units the ACC will earn this year thread over on the ACC boards.

Did any other conference board have a fan that did likewise?

But I do believe that how well the ACC performed last year helped SU get in comfortably with the committee this year (I believed they belonged but thought it would be a First Four 11 seed). I also think that this year's performance by the PAC will likely hurt bubble PAC teams next year with the committee.

However, I have been known to be wrong before.

Cheers,
Neil
03-22-2016 03:02 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #76
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-22-2016 03:02 AM)omniorange Wrote:  I love this type of minutia, so it's interesting to me, but I recognize most won't. Heck, prior to the tourney starting I created a predict the number of NCAA units the ACC will earn this year thread over on the ACC boards.

Did any other conference board have a fan that did likewise?

These boards are a unique place, and a lot of the posters came here through realignment. But the AAC board has a thread counting credits earned. Not quite a prediction thread, but similar.

Also, you're more likely to make that thread when you're the conference earning the most credits.
03-22-2016 03:43 AM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #77
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Are you guys writing about Syracuse or Louisville?

Syracuse, Louisville, UNC, Miami... take your pick. They're all filthy.
03-22-2016 07:51 AM
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Artifice Offline
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Post: #78
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-21-2016 02:25 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 01:51 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 12:45 PM)Artifice Wrote:  How many tournament credits has the ACC program currently on probation with its accrediting agency for 23 years of admitted academic fraud, and facing sentencing by the NCAA for five level one infractions including Lack of Institutional Control (the worst charge in the book) going to receive?

How is it that they are allowed to compete in this tournament or keep any if that money?

This is a good point actually. IMHO, if we want real change in college sports, the money needs to stop being funneled to schools / conferences who are found to have been cheating during the time period in which credits and bowl $$$ was made.

Investigation is not complete yet. There is so much to look at I guess.

The Notice of Allegations with five Level One infractions went out last summer. The investigation into those issues is complete (even if it only scratched the surface due to UNC spending $11million+ on lawyers and PR people in damage control).

[Image: 28613_nowwhatf.jpg]

Quote:Penalties for 18 years of academic irregularities at the University of North Carolina may come within the year.

Read more: http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2015...ticsQuoted from The Daily Tar Heel

Quote:The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill will not lose accreditation over the academic fraud that occurred there, but it will face one year of probation, the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges announced Thursday. In October, the university released a detailed report about widespread and long-lasting academic fraud at the university. For 20 years, some employees at the university knowingly steered about 1,500 athletes toward no-show courses that never met and were not taught by any faculty members, and in which the only work required was a single research paper that received a high grade no matter the content.

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktake...-probation

I find it offensive that: 1) they are playing and Louisville and SMU are not, simply because the former two didn't empty their war chests to fight, lie and obfuscate with every dollar and breath they have; and2) they are playing and the fact that they are on probation for academic fraud and pending sentencing from the NCAA COI, probably by this summer, isn't brought up constantly.

The program should not be playing (the players should have transferred out without penalty to other programs), and the program should not be earning back the money they spent lying to the public and the NCAA. It's an absolute joke and a slap in the face of whatever meager integrity is left in the sport.

BTW, this scandal dates back to at least 1988 (by the university's own admission), under "saint" Dean Smith. He was likely the orchestrator of all of it. Everything they have done in basketball since the late 80s (and probably before that as well), is absolutely tainted, and any success they had then or now is the fruit of that poisonous tree. They wouldn't be where they are today without cheating for decades.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2016 08:08 AM by Artifice.)
03-22-2016 07:58 AM
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johnbragg Online
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Post: #79
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-22-2016 07:51 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Are you guys writing about Syracuse or Louisville?

Syracuse, Louisville, UNC, Miami... take your pick. They're all filthy.

What has Da U done lately?
03-22-2016 09:46 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #80
RE: The ACC is KILLING this tournament!!!
(03-22-2016 09:46 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-22-2016 07:51 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(03-21-2016 04:32 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Are you guys writing about Syracuse or Louisville?

Syracuse, Louisville, UNC, Miami... take your pick. They're all filthy.

What has Da U done lately?

Other than being in the Sweet 16 right now? And they are going to give Villanova all they can handle, maybe more than they can handle.

Miami has quietly built a good basketball program. They have the good coaching and stability that their football program has lacked.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2016 09:52 AM by quo vadis.)
03-22-2016 09:51 AM
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