(03-21-2016 01:27 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:21 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I understand that you want Americans to be safe but I seriously doubt that shooting people is going to be an answer.

That just isn't wise. You know we could never support something like that.

If an illegal criminal is shot dead at the border, then it's a win for America. If you staunchly enforce the sanctity of the border, the most vulnerable - women and children - would probably not make the attempt in the first place. That would leave a higher percentage of the illegals attempting to cross illegally as criminals, and they can just turn around and commit crimes in their own countries.

How many people do you think we would have to shoot and kill before they become too discouraged to cross?

(03-21-2016 01:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:04 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So they were deported? In other words, the immigration laws were being enforced?

Often times no. And since thee border is not secure they can come back and they did.

According to a March 2, 2015 “ICE Weekly Departures and Detention Report” obtained by Center for Immigration Studies expert Jessica Vaughan and shared with Breitbart News, there were 168,680 convicted criminal immigrants who had final orders of removal but who remained at large in the U.S.

Another 179,018 convicted criminal immigrants with deportation cases pending also remained at large.

While the vast majority were not in custody some were detained — namely 6,220 criminal immigrants facing final deportation orders and another 7,680 convicted criminal immigrants with immigration cases pending.

In recent years there has been a focus on the number of annual criminal immigrant releases.

In 2013 the Obama administration released 36,007 criminal immigrants who had nearly 88,000 convictions. Those convictions included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, and 1,075 aggravated assault convictions.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...ge-in-u-s/

How can the border be more secure.

First one is a warning shot, the second is to center-mass.

So your saying that we should start shooting anyone who is attempting to cross the border? Women and Children too?

Publicize it in every news outlet from the Rio Grande to the Darien Gap for several months that anyone caught making an illegal crossing will be shot then yes. If they are crossing at other than an authorized border crossing they constitute a threat to our national security.

Besides, who cares?

Once they decide to cross, they become criminals.

(03-21-2016 01:30 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:04 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Often times no. And since thee border is not secure they can come back and they did.

According to a March 2, 2015 “ICE Weekly Departures and Detention Report” obtained by Center for Immigration Studies expert Jessica Vaughan and shared with Breitbart News, there were 168,680 convicted criminal immigrants who had final orders of removal but who remained at large in the U.S.

Another 179,018 convicted criminal immigrants with deportation cases pending also remained at large.

While the vast majority were not in custody some were detained — namely 6,220 criminal immigrants facing final deportation orders and another 7,680 convicted criminal immigrants with immigration cases pending.

In recent years there has been a focus on the number of annual criminal immigrant releases.

In 2013 the Obama administration released 36,007 criminal immigrants who had nearly 88,000 convictions. Those convictions included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, and 1,075 aggravated assault convictions.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...ge-in-u-s/

How can the border be more secure.

First one is a warning shot, the second is to center-mass.

So your saying that we should start shooting anyone who is attempting to cross the border? Women and Children too?

Publicize it in every news outlet from the Rio Grande to the Darien Gap for several months that anyone caught making an illegal crossing will be shot then yes. If they are crossing at other than an authorized border crossing they constitute a threat to our national security.

Interesting. And what about people in the country whose visa has expired. Would you advocate for the government to shoot them as well?

(03-21-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:30 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:09 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 01:04 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  How can the border be more secure.

First one is a warning shot, the second is to center-mass.

So your saying that we should start shooting anyone who is attempting to cross the border? Women and Children too?

Publicize it in every news outlet from the Rio Grande to the Darien Gap for several months that anyone caught making an illegal crossing will be shot then yes. If they are crossing at other than an authorized border crossing they constitute a threat to our national security.

Interesting. And what about people in the country whose visa has expired. Would you advocate for the government to shoot them as well?

No. They should be arrested and immediately deported.

From Today,

Border agents: DHS has ‘no intention’ of deporting illegals

A top Homeland Security official told Border Patrol agents the Obama administration has “no intention of deporting” many of the illegal immigrants caught trying to sneak into the country, ordering instead that they be released so they don’t clog up the courts, a leading advocate for agents testified to Congress.

Brandon Judd, president of the National Border Patrol Council, said the orders are a new “catch and release” policy, which he said “amounts to amnesty” because it means many illegal immigrants are never asked to leave the country.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016...-illegals/

(03-21-2016 01:30 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Publicize it in every news outlet from the Rio Grande to the Darien Gap for several months that anyone caught making an illegal crossing will be shot then yes.

I’d start for a high fence and some clear policies for legal immigration.




Then shoot.

(03-21-2016 12:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So they were deported? In other words, the immigration laws were being enforced?

Often times no. And since thee border is not secure they can come back and they did.

According to a March 2, 2015 “ICE Weekly Departures and Detention Report” obtained by Center for Immigration Studies expert Jessica Vaughan and shared with Breitbart News, there were 168,680 convicted criminal immigrants who had final orders of removal but who remained at large in the U.S.

Another 179,018 convicted criminal immigrants with deportation cases pending also remained at large.

While the vast majority were not in custody some were detained — namely 6,220 criminal immigrants facing final deportation orders and another 7,680 convicted criminal immigrants with immigration cases pending.

In recent years there has been a focus on the number of annual criminal immigrant releases.

In 2013 the Obama administration released 36,007 criminal immigrants who had nearly 88,000 convictions. Those convictions included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, and 1,075 aggravated assault convictions.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...ge-in-u-s/

How can the border be more secure.

Deploying a hamster with a slingshot to the border would make the border more secure by a magnitude of 4.

I've already gone back and forth on the morality and human decency of shooting people at the border, but almost as importantly, the day we start doing that is the day our foreign relations wih every other civilized nation are irreparably destroyed. And you people call libertarians isolationist.

Thankfully this will never happen outside of the sick fantasies on this board.

(03-20-2016 08:53 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Throw the book at them and throw the key away. At least they'll still be in the good U.S. of A.

Nope. Hang em.

(03-21-2016 02:08 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I've already gone back and forth on the morality and human decency of shooting people at the border, but almost as importantly, the day we start doing that is the day our foreign relations wih every other civilized nation are irreparably destroyed. And you people call libertarians isolationist.

Thankfully this will never happen outside of the sick fantasies on this board.

Exactly. I'm amazed that people on this forum would actually consider this sound policy.

(03-21-2016 02:08 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I've already gone back and forth on the morality and human decency of shooting people at the border, but almost as importantly, the day we start doing that is the day our foreign relations wih every other civilized nation are irreparably destroyed. And you people call libertarians isolationist.

Thankfully this will never happen outside of the sick fantasies on this board.

Mr. Morality is back, I see, without concern for American safety.

(03-21-2016 02:08 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I've already gone back and forth on the morality and human decency of shooting people at the border, but almost as importantly, the day we start doing that is the day our foreign relations wih every other civilized nation are irreparably destroyed. And you people call libertarians isolationist.

Thankfully this will never happen outside of the sick fantasies on this board.

Then make preparations for the destruction of this country.

I've posted some variation of this a number of times, haven't committed it to memory so it might be a little different than before, but the thought is the same.
First, I don't think we're gonna be shooting people on sight anytime soon, unless we get seriously smacked by a Paris like attack. Second we aren't going to be sending jack boots to kick in doors unless it's a major operation or in addition to some other crime. Drugs, arms, human trafficking etc. It's isn't gonna be the local landscape workers joint.

BUT, when they DO come in contact with the "system", now the game is up. Whether it's traffic stop, something that lands the illegal invader in the hospital, applying for some sort of Gov't doc, program, school whatever else it may be.

They are taken in, citation issued, $500 fine and one way trip back to the border of their choice. They are also made very clear how they can apply for a workers visa, green card or whatever they may be eligible for.

Also made clear, though, is that if they do this again, and get caught again, the fine (and now jail time) will increase exponentially.

Second time they're caught it's 6 months with no parole/probation, and $2500 fine.
Third time- a year, maybe more and 5 grand, maybe 10 grand. IOW's make it very difficult to have it make sense to violate our borders, laws and sovereignty over and over. It's better and easier to either follow the rules, or stay home.

Of course it there are additional criminal acts involved with running into the system- drunk driving, speeding, driving without a license, theft or anything else, these can all be accelerated.

And this goes for ALL those illegally here, visa overstays, students that don't go home when needed, and those just strolling across. North or South.

They should be home trying to fix whatever the hell it is that makes them want to break into our Country in the first place, and if you listen to the "advocates" they are all women and orphans, or the hardest working people on the face of the earth. Good for them then, I hope that's true. Then stay home and do that hard work, put some of your folks to work, improve the conditions around you. Your life and Country will be better off over time, safer and more prosperous, and our Country will be as well.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

(03-21-2016 02:08 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I've already gone back and forth on the morality and human decency of shooting people at the border, but almost as importantly, the day we start doing that is the day our foreign relations wih every other civilized nation are irreparably destroyed. And you people call libertarians isolationist.

Thankfully this will never happen outside of the sick fantasies on this board.

Most countries already do this. You either surrender and are arrested or they shoot you. This is nothing special in the world or new in history.

(03-21-2016 12:57 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 12:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  So they were deported? In other words, the immigration laws were being enforced?

Often times no. And since thee border is not secure they can come back and they did.

According to a March 2, 2015 “ICE Weekly Departures and Detention Report” obtained by Center for Immigration Studies expert Jessica Vaughan and shared with Breitbart News, there were 168,680 convicted criminal immigrants who had final orders of removal but who remained at large in the U.S.

Another 179,018 convicted criminal immigrants with deportation cases pending also remained at large.

While the vast majority were not in custody some were detained — namely 6,220 criminal immigrants facing final deportation orders and another 7,680 convicted criminal immigrants with immigration cases pending.

In recent years there has been a focus on the number of annual criminal immigrant releases.

In 2013 the Obama administration released 36,007 criminal immigrants who had nearly 88,000 convictions. Those convictions included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, and 1,075 aggravated assault convictions.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...ge-in-u-s/

How can the border be more secure.

You're like talking to a brick wall.

(03-21-2016 03:26 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  I've posted some variation of this a number of times, haven't committed it to memory so it might be a little different than before, but the thought is the same.
First, I don't think we're gonna be shooting people on sight anytime soon, unless we get seriously smacked by a Paris like attack. Second we aren't going to be sending jack boots to kick in doors unless it's a major operation or in addition to some other crime. Drugs, arms, human trafficking etc. It's isn't gonna be the local landscape workers joint.

BUT, when they DO come in contact with the "system", now the game is up. Whether it's traffic stop, something that lands the illegal invader in the hospital, applying for some sort of Gov't doc, program, school whatever else it may be.

They are taken in, citation issued, $500 fine and one way trip back to the border of their choice. They are also made very clear how they can apply for a workers visa, green card or whatever they may be eligible for.

Also made clear, though, is that if they do this again, and get caught again, the fine (and now jail time) will increase exponentially.

Second time they're caught it's 6 months with no parole/probation, and $2500 fine.
Third time- a year, maybe more and 5 grand, maybe 10 grand. IOW's make it very difficult to have it make sense to violate our borders, laws and sovereignty over and over. It's better and easier to either follow the rules, or stay home.

Of course it there are additional criminal acts involved with running into the system- drunk driving, speeding, driving without a license, theft or anything else, these can all be accelerated.

And this goes for ALL those illegally here, visa overstays, students that don't go home when needed, and those just strolling across. North or South.

They should be home trying to fix whatever the hell it is that makes them want to break into our Country in the first place, and if you listen to the "advocates" they are all women and orphans, or the hardest working people on the face of the earth. Good for them then, I hope that's true. Then stay home and do that hard work, put some of your folks to work, improve the conditions around you. Your life and Country will be better off over time, safer and more prosperous, and our Country will be as well.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

I can agree with this.

This women children line make me extremely angry. If they gave a damn about the women and children they would stop the illegal human trafficking. They would stop people being smuggled across the border for cash and then just dropped in the desert with no way to survive. They would stop people baking to death in shipping containers.

Letting human trash entice women and children across the border in ways where their lives are in danger is NOT caring about them. It is absolute irresponsibility. The responsible way to care for women and children is to make safe, legal border crossing the only option. Then you don't have a bunch of criminals shoving drugs up Mary's twat to carrying them across the desert.

This whole idea that closing the border harms people is just absolute bull****. What harms people is letting the lawless have their way with people.

Massachusetts is becoming a very interesting state. Trump easily destroyed his GOP competitors in the Primary. There are also many blue-collar Bernie supporters, who dislike Clinton with a passion. Add in this horrible crime, and I honestly think Trump could win Massachusetts in the general election.

(03-21-2016 04:29 PM)Claw Wrote:  This women children line make me extremely angry. If they gave a damn about the women and children they would stop the illegal human trafficking. They would stop people being smuggled across the border for cash and then just dropped in the desert with no way to survive. They would stop people baking to death in shipping containers.

Letting human trash entice women and children across the border in ways where their lives are in danger is NOT caring about them. It is absolute irresponsibility. The responsible way to care for women and children is to make safe, legal border crossing the only option. Then you don't have a bunch of criminals shoving drugs up Mary's twat to carrying them across the desert.

This whole idea that closing the border harms people is just absolute bull****. What harms people is letting the lawless have their way with people.

The borders are closed and people are dying. It's not a myth. It's actually happening.