(03-19-2016 10:11 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  Fair point on the small sample size but I'd argue the coaches see him every day and chose not to use him in a game where were playing 4 guards with no subs.

Hope I'm wrong I just think if you're going to be a starter caliber guy as an upper class man you would be capable of playing 5-10 minutes as an underclassmen

Then you would have to justify sitting Caupain for ten minutes of every game. Caupain, for better or worse, is the de facto PG. Jenifer gets whatever minutes that Caupain doesn't get, which isn't much. Unless Mick changes his lineup philosophy, I don't see a drastic increase in minutes for Jenifer. They're probably focusing on him taking over for Caupain after next year.

(03-19-2016 08:30 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:23 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Raise your hand if you're happy Ellis is gone...

<hand raised>

Not me. It was disappointing he didn't raise his game as a senior but he was a solid player and great defender for two years. Not to mention the improvement in his on court anger issues. He's been through a lot and you can tell the coaches really care for him. Hope he's able to make a good life for himself in an overseas league.

Thrilled he's gone.

(03-19-2016 08:54 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:44 PM)crex043 Wrote:  I'm not sure if I'm alone here, but I'm disgusted by people who are saying that Jenifer is worthless and will never be a contributor on this team. At least we have a sample size with Moore that we shouldn't expect too much from him, but c'mon! Jenifer didn't play very much behind Caupain this year so how can anyone be so confident that he isn't ever going to make a contribution?

He's not worthless, but he's certainly got a lot of work to do.

I think most of the people displaying their displeasure with him is because of the expectations he had when he was recruited and arrived on campus. A lot of people had been talking him up and he didn't add much of anything as a freshman.

Again, I think people are upset about Mick's level of recruiting. If it takes two more years before Jenifer can be a contributor then that's a failure on Mick's part. If UC is ever going to make deep runs in the Tourney they can't have several projects on the roster.

(03-19-2016 04:17 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  I've never seen him play but if he's an upgrade offensively we're going to be really good.

Didn't Washington play against us two years ago in Raleigh, and have a great game?

(03-19-2016 11:50 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:30 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:23 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Raise your hand if you're happy Ellis is gone...

<hand raised>

Not me. It was disappointing he didn't raise his game as a senior but he was a solid player and great defender for two years. Not to mention the improvement in his on court anger issues. He's been through a lot and you can tell the coaches really care for him. Hope he's able to make a good life for himself in an overseas league.

Thrilled he's gone.

Not me either. Very good defensively but a little weak offensively. Played very hard.

(03-19-2016 08:58 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:30 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:23 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Raise your hand if you're happy Ellis is gone...

<hand raised>

Not me. It was disappointing he didn't raise his game as a senior but he was a solid player and great defender for two years. Not to mention the improvement in his on court anger issues. He's been through a lot and you can tell the coaches really care for him. Hope he's able to make a good life for himself in an overseas league.

This

This X2.
Ellis contributed, managed his demons and will graduate.
His teammates love him and so do his coaches.

Considering where he came from, what he's been through and what he's seen in his life, he is better for having been a Bearcat. His daughter's life will be better for it.

I am proud that my alma mater gave him a chance not once but twice. Other schools passed on him the first time or wouldn't have given him the chance to return.

Life is more than Ws and Ls.
I wish Tay nothing but the best and thank him for his contributions.

(03-19-2016 11:52 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:54 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:44 PM)crex043 Wrote:  I'm not sure if I'm alone here, but I'm disgusted by people who are saying that Jenifer is worthless and will never be a contributor on this team. At least we have a sample size with Moore that we shouldn't expect too much from him, but c'mon! Jenifer didn't play very much behind Caupain this year so how can anyone be so confident that he isn't ever going to make a contribution?

He's not worthless, but he's certainly got a lot of work to do.

I think most of the people displaying their displeasure with him is because of the expectations he had when he was recruited and arrived on campus. A lot of people had been talking him up and he didn't add much of anything as a freshman.

Again, I think people are upset about Mick's level of recruiting. If it takes two more years before Jenifer can be a contributor then that's a failure on Mick's part. If UC is ever going to make deep runs in the Tourney they can't have several projects on the roster.

Have to agree, particularly with your last sentence. There is a place for projects, but they should be the 11, 12, and 13 roster spots, not the 8, 9, and 10.

(My tribute to Chatter...)

This is how I envision the rotation:

PG - Caupain, Evans, Jenifer
SG - KJ, Cumberland
SF - Evans, Cumberland
PF - Clark, Moore, Scott
PF (or C) - Washington, Moore, Brooks

Note that I have Evans as the backup SG, "sliding" over when Troy is out. This is obviously a vote of "no confidence" in Jenifer. Not my vote, the coaching staff's. He barely got any minutes while our guard/SF rotation was injury-riddled at the time Shaq and Cobb were out. If we see Troy and Jacob each playing 35+ minutes, you can count on injuries to surface again, and probably, again right before the tournament.

Note Cumberland filling in for both 2 and 3 spots. Other than Troy (who is already fixed at the point) and Evans, Jarron is the only wing on the team with any appreciable size. He'll be counted on for quite a few minutes IMO (probably 25), so obviously his being the "real deal" had better pan out. He will be at least as important of a rookie this year as Evans was this year.

Frontcourt, agree that it is very dicey, if not a potential disaster. I think the two starters are very good, but we have an unproductive reserve returning, and two rookies. As was the case with Jenifer, Moore got barely any time at all in the rotation, despite Clark's sprained ankle. Clark was up around 50 minutes vs. UConn on a bad wheel!! Quad was OK vs. SJ's, up until the play he unfortunately got injured on. Leaving the best guy on the court to double was just dumb. A complete lack of basketball IQ and court awareness is the main reason why Clark gets 30 minutes, and Quad does good to get more than five. There are other reasons, but I'd say that is the main reason.

The newcomers - Brooks can supposedly protect the rim pretty well, but the P-word "project" pops up when discussing the offensive end. I actually have a little bit of optimism when it comes to Scott. Unlike predecessors Justin Jackson and Shaq Thomas, he is supposedly slated for the 4-spot from day one (More than anything, IMO, Mick's belief that the 3 was the primary position for those two hindered their development more than anything else). RS should really help Scott, as he has added quite a bit of muscle, and should have a playing weight that the PF position requires. I wouldn't count on Tre for offense, but behind Washington/Clark, probably won't need to.

There are some pieces, but too many question marks to be too optimistic. Should at least make the field of 68.

Thanks, Brian. Great analysis. I love it when someone else does the work.

Have any posters heard of anyone on the roster considering transferring?

(03-20-2016 09:28 AM)Brian_Johnson Wrote:  (My tribute to Chatter...)

This is how I envision the rotation:

PG - Caupain, Evans, Jenifer
SG - KJ, Cumberland
SF - Evans, Cumberland
PF - Clark, Moore, Scott
PF (or C) - Washington, Moore, Brooks

Note that I have Evans as the backup SG, "sliding" over when Troy is out. This is obviously a vote of "no confidence" in Jenifer. Not my vote, the coaching staff's. He barely got any minutes while our guard/SF rotation was injury-riddled at the time Shaq and Cobb were out. If we see Troy and Jacob each playing 35+ minutes, you can count on injuries to surface again, and probably, again right before the tournament.

Note Cumberland filling in for both 2 and 3 spots. Other than Troy (who is already fixed at the point) and Evans, Jarron is the only wing on the team with any appreciable size. He'll be counted on for quite a few minutes IMO (probably 25), so obviously his being the "real deal" had better pan out. He will be at least as important of a rookie this year as Evans was this year.

Frontcourt, agree that it is very dicey, if not a potential disaster. I think the two starters are very good, but we have an unproductive reserve returning, and two rookies. As was the case with Jenifer, Moore got barely any time at all in the rotation, despite Clark's sprained ankle. Clark was up around 50 minutes vs. UConn on a bad wheel!! Quad was OK vs. SJ's, up until the play he unfortunately got injured on. Leaving the best guy on the court to double was just dumb. A complete lack of basketball IQ and court awareness is the main reason why Clark gets 30 minutes, and Quad does good to get more than five. There are other reasons, but I'd say that is the main reason.

The newcomers - Brooks can supposedly protect the rim pretty well, but the P-word "project" pops up when discussing the offensive end. I actually have a little bit of optimism when it comes to Scott. Unlike predecessors Justin Jackson and Shaq Thomas, he is supposedly slated for the 4-spot from day one (More than anything, IMO, Mick's belief that the 3 was the primary position for those two hindered their development more than anything else). RS should really help Scott, as he has added quite a bit of muscle, and should have a playing weight that the PF position requires. I wouldn't count on Tre for offense, but behind Washington/Clark, probably won't need to.

There are some pieces, but too many question marks to be too optimistic. Should at least make the field of 68.

The main pieces are absolutely there to have a great team next year. Troy will probably be preseason POY in the AAC. I don't think there is another big in conference that I would take over Gary and Jacob Evans had so many big time moments that it's impossible not to be excited about his future. I'm hopeful that Kyle Washington can be an upgrade over Ellis, but that remains to be seen.

With that said, Mick has to hit on his spring recruiting targets. This team really struggled with quickness this year, so pulling in an athletic guard (like Kyran Bowman) and bigger wing (Jordan Bowden) that can spell Jacob is so important.

I don't think Jenifer has any place at this level, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer. I think Quadri could be a solid contributor but he still needs to learn how to be an effective role player (set screens, rebound, play solid defense, etc.). If he can't do that, then he should probably transfer to a lower level where he can be the man offensively.

Really what next year (and frankly the future of this program) boils down to is Mick has to bring in better players. Sure, it's great that it looks like he has brought in a very good player the last four classes (Troy, Gary, Evans and Cumberland) but to get to the next level it needs to be at least 2 of those players per class...

(03-20-2016 11:24 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  With that said, Mick has to hit on his spring recruiting targets. This team really struggled with quickness this year, so pulling in an athletic guard (like Kyran Bowman) and bigger wing (Jordan Bowden) that can spell Jacob is so important.

I don't think Jenifer has any place at this level, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer. I think Quadri could be a solid contributor but he still needs to learn how to be an effective role player (set screens, rebound, play solid defense, etc.). If he can't do that, then he should probably transfer to a lower level where he can be the man offensively.

Really what next year (and frankly the future of this program) boils down to is Mick has to bring in better players. Sure, it's great that it looks like he has brought in a very good player the last four classes (Troy, Gary, Evans and Cumberland) but to get to the next level it needs to be at least 2 of those players per class...

I agree we definitely need more athleticism on the perimeter. I'd also say one of those guys needs to be able to spell Caupain at point (and start the year after) since Cobb was the primary backup PG this year.

I agree Quadri has skills but he doesn't appear to have any feel for the game. Not sure that's something you can develop.

And I agree that were recruiting more high level players in recent years. I can't figure out why between the Cash, Yancy, Lance, and SK classes and Troy coming we recruited a bunch of really average players.

I think Jenifer will regain our respect next year as a backup.

(03-20-2016 01:42 PM)crex043 Wrote:  I think Jenifer will regain our respect next year as a backup.

Agree. He showed flashes and did a better job the last couple times out.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

(03-20-2016 11:11 PM)BigDawg Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 01:42 PM)crex043 Wrote:  I think Jenifer will regain our respect next year as a backup.

Agree. He showed flashes and did a better job the last couple times out.


Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

His backup stats in out of conference play were decent. He, just like most freshman, just needs to find more consistency in his game and learn to play sound defense. Evans is the bigger prospect for sure, but he got minutes to develop because the guys in front of him on the depth chart are Kevin Johnson and Farad Cobb. Caupain would have to sit on the bench to give Jenifer time.

He may not be the next Cash, but the dude certainly hasn't been proven a failure at this point.

(03-20-2016 11:24 AM)JFlight21 Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 09:28 AM)Brian_Johnson Wrote:  (My tribute to Chatter...)

This is how I envision the rotation:

PG - Caupain, Evans, Jenifer
SG - KJ, Cumberland
SF - Evans, Cumberland
PF - Clark, Moore, Scott
PF (or C) - Washington, Moore, Brooks

Note that I have Evans as the backup SG, "sliding" over when Troy is out. This is obviously a vote of "no confidence" in Jenifer. Not my vote, the coaching staff's. He barely got any minutes while our guard/SF rotation was injury-riddled at the time Shaq and Cobb were out. If we see Troy and Jacob each playing 35+ minutes, you can count on injuries to surface again, and probably, again right before the tournament.

Note Cumberland filling in for both 2 and 3 spots. Other than Troy (who is already fixed at the point) and Evans, Jarron is the only wing on the team with any appreciable size. He'll be counted on for quite a few minutes IMO (probably 25), so obviously his being the "real deal" had better pan out. He will be at least as important of a rookie this year as Evans was this year.

Frontcourt, agree that it is very dicey, if not a potential disaster. I think the two starters are very good, but we have an unproductive reserve returning, and two rookies. As was the case with Jenifer, Moore got barely any time at all in the rotation, despite Clark's sprained ankle. Clark was up around 50 minutes vs. UConn on a bad wheel!! Quad was OK vs. SJ's, up until the play he unfortunately got injured on. Leaving the best guy on the court to double was just dumb. A complete lack of basketball IQ and court awareness is the main reason why Clark gets 30 minutes, and Quad does good to get more than five. There are other reasons, but I'd say that is the main reason.

The newcomers - Brooks can supposedly protect the rim pretty well, but the P-word "project" pops up when discussing the offensive end. I actually have a little bit of optimism when it comes to Scott. Unlike predecessors Justin Jackson and Shaq Thomas, he is supposedly slated for the 4-spot from day one (More than anything, IMO, Mick's belief that the 3 was the primary position for those two hindered their development more than anything else). RS should really help Scott, as he has added quite a bit of muscle, and should have a playing weight that the PF position requires. I wouldn't count on Tre for offense, but behind Washington/Clark, probably won't need to.

There are some pieces, but too many question marks to be too optimistic. Should at least make the field of 68.

The main pieces are absolutely there to have a great team next year. Troy will probably be preseason POY in the AAC. I don't think there is another big in conference that I would take over Gary and Jacob Evans had so many big time moments that it's impossible not to be excited about his future. I'm hopeful that Kyle Washington can be an upgrade over Ellis, but that remains to be seen.

With that said, Mick has to hit on his spring recruiting targets. This team really struggled with quickness this year, so pulling in an athletic guard (like Kyran Bowman) and bigger wing (Jordan Bowden) that can spell Jacob is so important.

I don't think Jenifer has any place at this level, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer. I think Quadri could be a solid contributor but he still needs to learn how to be an effective role player (set screens, rebound, play solid defense, etc.). If he can't do that, then he should probably transfer to a lower level where he can be the man offensively.

Really what next year (and frankly the future of this program) boils down to is Mick has to bring in better players. Sure, it's great that it looks like he has brought in a very good player the last four classes (Troy, Gary, Evans and Cumberland) but to get to the next level it needs to be at least 2 of those players per class...

great breakdowns by Brian and Flight

next year's team should have a higher ceiling than this year's team.
My biggest concern is defense and depth.

Hopefully Mick can land a 5th year PG or big.
If not a freshmen PG who can step in and give Caupain a rest for 5-10 minutes a game

I hope Jenifer and Quadri prove me wrong but I don't see them being much of a factor

(03-20-2016 08:53 AM)Brian_Johnson Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:58 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:35 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:30 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 08:23 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Raise your hand if you're happy Ellis is gone...

<hand raised>

Not me. It was disappointing he didn't raise his game as a senior but he was a solid player and great defender for two years. Not to mention the improvement in his on court anger issues. He's been through a lot and you can tell the coaches really care for him. Hope he's able to make a good life for himself in an overseas league.

This

This X2.
Ellis contributed, managed his demons and will graduate.
His teammates love him and so do his coaches.

Considering where he came from, what he's been through and what he's seen in his life, he is better for having been a Bearcat. His daughter's life will be better for it.

I am proud that my alma mater gave him a chance not once but twice. Other schools passed on him the first time or wouldn't have given him the chance to return.

Life is more than Ws and Ls.
I wish Tay nothing but the best and thank him for his contributions.

great posts RD and m44 People will talk about the late dunk while getting smacked in the head, but his 2 blocks just before it were huge in getting to that point. I think he can make some decent money playing this game overseas if he wants to go that route.

Jenifer isn't going to be a superstar, but he will be a good role player for this team his Junior and Senior seasons. I remember people teeing off on Armein Kirkland his freshman year also, and turned out to be a key piece by the time he was an upperclassmen. Eric Hicks was a guy that couldn't shoot, barely played, and quit the team his freshman year, he turned out ok.

I've seen the comment that Jenifer has no offense and can't shoot, but he shot 10-30 on 3's this season, not spectacular, but not bad either considering he's a frosh and was often times coming in cold off the bench. That % is better than Caupain, KJ, and Evans by the way.

He had 34 assists to 17 turnovers. Compare that to Cobb who had 48 and 28, in nearly 4 times the minutes.

Every time in the game he keeps the ball moving, which is refreshing compared to our typical stagnant, stand around and pound the ball half court offense.

Obviously steals is not a great indicator of overall defense, but it does tell you something. KJ, our best defender, had 30 steals in 700 minutes. Jenifer had 14 in 232 minutes. If he plays 20+ minutes a game he would likely lead our team in that department.

Jenifer is not tall enough or athletic enough to be a great player, but given another year behind Caupain I think Jenifer will be solid his last two years here.

I wonder if we'll see Evans get some point forward action at some point.

He's the only Bearcat I see with NBA potential. Maybe Washington, but he's mostly an unknown.

Tired of all the Cronin Talk... Anyone think we should run a 3 Guard Offense until Cumberland and Scott get completely comfortable...
This is how I imagine time being split next year with multiple rotations... and it seems like we could be dangerous if we rely on two potential ball handlers in Troy and Justin:

PG: Caupain (30 min)/ Jenifer (10min)
SG: Jenifer (15min) /KJ (20 min)/ Evans (5 min)
SG2/F: Evans (15 min)/ Cumberland (15 min)/ Scott (10 min)
F: Clark (30 min)/ Scott (5 min)/ Quad (5 min)
Swing Forward: Washington (30 min)/ Quad (10 min)

This is without any new signings...

Thoughts? Anyone else think we can play 3 guards successfully for half a game?

Kj will start. Troy will play damn near 40 minutes in big games