(03-19-2016 10:50 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 10:46 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 10:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  it might help if Dunn and Bentil didn't commit some pretty dumb fouls- fouls that they've been committing all year long at big times. Bentil's 4th and 5th fouls were just dumb ones.

Really? Bentils 5th foul was dumb? I mean...the UNC guy basically shoved him out of the way and pushed his hands down yet he gets the foul. Announcers tried to make an excuse that it was Bentils right foot which was right behind the UNC guy...that was the reason. Yea even the announcers had to look at it again over commercial break and think of an excuse of why that was called. The one before that. He was just playing defense on the guy and I could only assume he was "touching" the offensive player...thats a big no no.

You aren't allowed to touch a shooter like that outside the paint. Part of it is Big East fans demand the games to be allowed to be called like it's always been. Then don't be surprised when you get to the tourney and those fouls get called...

even without that- look at the stats....
Free throws- PC 9-17, UNC 18-19.
PC has all of 13 points from everyone but Dunn/Bentil. UNC has 15 points from it's bench...

So you're saying the refs realized that Dunn and Bentil were keeping them in the game? You don't say!

I'm saying Bentil especially with the 4th one- he is touching a guy as it goes up. I'm sorry but that's a foul.... The problem with PC was no one else stepped up at all....

Bottom line you shoot the way PC did- 6-23 from 3 point range, and 14-23 from the line- you are going to struggle. Also rebounds killed PC- 42-24. PC needed to play a MUCH better game to beat UNC, and that just didn't happen...

(03-19-2016 11:01 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I'm saying Bentil especially with the 4th one- he is touching a guy as it goes up. I'm sorry but that's a foul.... The problem with PC was no one else stepped up at all....

Bottom line you shoot the way PC did- 6-23 from 3 point range, and 14-23 from the line- you are going to struggle. Also rebounds killed PC- 42-24. PC needed to play a MUCH better game to beat UNC, and that just didn't happen...

I have no problem with refs calling fouls which are obvious (Foul committed by Dunn when he reached in and tried to smack the ball) but I do have a problem when they start calling ticky tack fouls especially when you dont need to go to replay to say it was a BS call. Bentils last 2-garbage calls to get him out of the game. His fourth one, he was just squaring up, he didnt wrap his arm around him, he didn't pull on his jersey or hands he squared up like he was suppose to seeing how he knew he was in foul trouble and still had a lot of time left. You can usually tell when refs start dictating the game.

(03-19-2016 11:08 PM)ivet Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 11:01 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I'm saying Bentil especially with the 4th one- he is touching a guy as it goes up. I'm sorry but that's a foul.... The problem with PC was no one else stepped up at all....

Bottom line you shoot the way PC did- 6-23 from 3 point range, and 14-23 from the line- you are going to struggle. Also rebounds killed PC- 42-24. PC needed to play a MUCH better game to beat UNC, and that just didn't happen...

I have no problem with refs calling fouls which are obvious (Foul committed by Dunn when he reached in and tried to smack the ball) but I do have a problem when they start calling ticky tack fouls especially when you dont need to go to reply to say it was a BS call. Bentils last 2-garbage calls to get him out of the game.

Here's what the big problem is. Big East fans think it's ticky tack fouls. But the rules put in this year, which have been in place all year long, say that's a foul. You may think it's ticky tack, but in 2016 it's a foul. Now Big East refs may not have called it a foul, and that's the problem. Conference refs need to call the games IMO to prepare the team for the tournament, not on a style that is a dinosaur.

Also lets not pretend that if Bentil had been in there it would have been any different. The game was over by then(think it was a 13 point margin). Him fouling out didn't change 1 thing.

(03-19-2016 10:51 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I am glad that the Lack 12 placed so many quality teams in the tournament. In fact, the committee should have picked more amazing squads from that illustrious conference.

So because the WCC and the Pac=2 wins apiece, the WCC=the Pac.

Tournament results matter but the Pac is just having a bad year at the crapshoot.

(03-19-2016 11:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 11:08 PM)ivet Wrote:  I have no problem with refs calling fouls which are obvious (Foul committed by Dunn when he reached in and tried to smack the ball) but I do have a problem when they start calling ticky tack fouls especially when you dont need to go to reply to say it was a BS call. Bentils last 2-garbage calls to get him out of the game.

Here's what the big problem is. Big East fans think it's ticky tack fouls. But the rules put in this year, which have been in place all year long, say that's a foul. You may think it's ticky tack, but in 2016 it's a foul. Now Big East refs may not have called it a foul, and that's the problem. Conference refs need to call the games IMO to prepare the team for the tournament, not on a style that is a dinosaur.

Also lets not pretend that if Bentil had been in there it would have been any different. The game was over by then(think it was a 13 point margin). Him fouling out didn't change 1 thing.

It does actually change the game. When a player, especially your go-to-player, gets in foul trouble, they play cautiously. When he got his third foul which was like 2 minutes into the 2nd half, the game was tied and he started playing cautiously since there was still a lot of time left. Williams noticed this and started attacking him on low post Iso plays.

Right around the 9 minute mark Dunn committed a stupid foul and had to sit. Did you not hear the color commentator say that Dunn has to be in regardless of the fouls because you need your best players in there. That's what they were discussing when UNC brought the ball down and sure enough ticky tack 4th foul against Bentil. commentator says..yup now Dun is waiting to get in" after sitting for 30 seconds(Dun foul 8:44-Bentil foul 8:15) They were only down by 9, they could have been down by 7 had Cartwright made the free throws. You could tell the refs made up their mind around the 15 minute mark.

So Bentil picking up his 3rd foul, which was a good call, changed the game. By the time his 4th foul was called, UNC had the momentum.

And I'm sorry, you can think it's ticky tack all you want, but with the rules the way they are in 2016, it's a foul. If the ref hadn't called it, he wouldn't have been in the tourney any longer. Big East fans want to puff out their chests and say we play real man basketball and not the soft crap like the ACC. Well guess what, if the tourney is reffed like the ACC, doesn't that mean that the ACC would have a huge advantage?

(03-19-2016 11:37 PM)stever20 Wrote:  So Bentil picking up his 3rd foul, which was a good call, changed the game. By the time his 4th foul was called, UNC had the momentum.

And I'm sorry, you can think it's ticky tack all you want, but with the rules the way they are in 2016, it's a foul. If the ref hadn't called it, he wouldn't have been in the tourney any longer. Big East fans want to puff out their chests and say we play real man basketball and not the soft crap like the ACC. Well guess what, if the tourney is reffed like the ACC, doesn't that mean that the ACC would have a huge advantage?

Why do you think there was a long stretch between Bens 3rd foul and his 4th foul? Because he was playing cautiously yet Ben and Kris still kept 'em in the game. I mean, it was practically Dunn and Bentil the entire game...that's what you stated right? Not even denying that either. I am a Big East fan and I have no qualms in stating that the ACC is a far superior conference than the Big East, but I also will say that that game was poorly officiated. Replace the PC jersey with any other non-big east school, I still would say it was BS officiating.

They should honestly modify the foul rule. After a certain number, instead of disqualifying the player, they should just have a team shoot technical foul shots (in addition to team foul peanalty shots if applicable) and then the ball out on the side. That way players can stay in the game, keep playing aggressive and officials don't have to feel obligated to call the game a certain way. I think most teams would like that even if giving up extra points every now and again as opposed to having to sit out their best players for long stretches. Sports organizations would like it too so the paying fans can see the stars play and not the backup off the bench.

The big problem was no one but Dunn/Bentil stepped up. 2nd half Lindsey made a layup with 9 minutes to go. Then 2:02 to go when Chambers made a jumper. Then a guy made a FT in garbage time. So everyone else got 5 points in the 2nd half. You aren't going to beat a UNC with only 2 guys.

My point is that it's not BS officiating. If was officiated the way the refs have been instructed to ref games with the freedom of movement initiatives. I wasn't saying the ACC is far superior than the Big East, I was saying the game is officiated differently. And the way the ACC is officiated is more like how the tourney is officiated.

Butler and Providence weren't expected to win against #1 seeds. Hopefully Xavier and Villanova can win their games tomorrow.

(03-20-2016 12:00 AM)Burrito Wrote:  Butler and Providence weren't expected to win against #1 seeds. Hopefully Xavier and Villanova can win their games tomorrow.

yeah, I thought still think if PC was in almost any where else in the bracket they would have a shot. But UNC was a brutal matchup. And UVA turns into LMU 2nd half scoring 54 points against Butler- think it was like 1.56 points per possession in the 2nd half for UVA. I think if you had told Butler they'd score 69 points vs UVA, they'd be thrilled...

This is where all those losses by PC and Butler in conference play really hurt them- as they were stuck on the 8/9 line.

(03-19-2016 11:59 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The big problem was no one but Dunn/Bentil stepped up. 2nd half Lindsey made a layup with 9 minutes to go. Then 2:02 to go when Chambers made a jumper. Then a guy made a FT in garbage time. So everyone else got 5 points in the 2nd half. You aren't going to beat a UNC with only 2 guys.

My point is that it's not BS officiating. If was officiated the way the refs have been instructed to ref games with the freedom of movement initiatives. I wasn't saying the ACC is far superior than the Big East, I was saying the game is officiated differently. And the way the ACC is officiated is more like how the tourney is officiated.

Louisville beat them with 2 players. Texas beat them with 3 players. Duke beat them with 3 players (OK Plumlee helped a little). Anyways, even with 2 players, PC still kept it close against them. Also, I've been watching a lot of the games this tourney and I just switched over from watching the Butler UVA game and I had no issues with how the refs handled that game and it was close all the way to the last minute.

Louisville had scorers with 24,12,10,9,6,4,4,2. So 2 guys got 36. The other guys got 35. That's more than 2 guys beating UNC.
Texas had scorers with 25,18,16,12,7,6.
Duke had scorers with 23,20,15,11,5.

PC had scorers of 29,21,7,2,2,2,2,1. So 2 guys got 50. The other guys got 16. Rebounding clearly killed PC- 42-24. When UNC shot the ball, they got offensive rebounds 46% of the time!

(03-20-2016 12:24 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Louisville had scorers with 24,12,10,9,6,4,4,2. So 2 guys got 36. The other guys got 35. That's more than 2 guys beating UNC.
Texas had scorers with 25,18,16,12,7,6.
Duke had scorers with 23,20,15,11,5.

PC had scorers of 29,21,7,2,2,2,2,1. So 2 guys got 50. The other guys got 16. Rebounding clearly killed PC- 42-24. When UNC shot the ball, they got offensive rebounds 46% of the time!

Thanks Stever, you pointed out the fact that 2 guys kept them in the game until the refs took over.

(03-20-2016 12:27 AM)ivet Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 12:24 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Louisville had scorers with 24,12,10,9,6,4,4,2. So 2 guys got 36. The other guys got 35. That's more than 2 guys beating UNC.
Texas had scorers with 25,18,16,12,7,6.
Duke had scorers with 23,20,15,11,5.

PC had scorers of 29,21,7,2,2,2,2,1. So 2 guys got 50. The other guys got 16. Rebounding clearly killed PC- 42-24. When UNC shot the ball, they got offensive rebounds 46% of the time!

Thanks Stever, you pointed out the fact that 2 guys kept them in the game until the refs started over.

If Dunn and Bentil weren't foul prone I might agree with you...
Bentil 20/35 games this year he had at least 3 fouls.
Dunn 19/33 games this year he had at least 3 fouls.

Both of them commit a lot of fouls. It's not rocket science there at all...

fouls in the game- 20-19. FT 23-21 with PC getting more.

The problem is Bullock was awful- only the Creighton game was he worse.

(03-19-2016 11:31 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-19-2016 10:51 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I am glad that the Lack 12 placed so many quality teams in the tournament. In fact, the committee should have picked more amazing squads from that illustrious conference.

So because the WCC and the Pac=2 wins apiece, the WCC=the Pac.

Tournament results matter but the Pac is just having a bad year at the crapshoot.

I didn't say any specific conference.

(03-20-2016 12:34 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 12:27 AM)ivet Wrote:  Thanks Stever, you pointed out the fact that 2 guys kept them in the game until the refs started over.

If Dunn and Bentil weren't foul prone I might agree with you...
Bentil 20/35 games this year he had at least 3 fouls.
Dunn 19/33 games this year he had at least 3 fouls.

Both of them commit a lot of fouls. It's not rocket science there at all...

fouls in the game- 20-19. FT 23-21 with PC getting more.

The problem is Bullock was awful- only the Creighton game was he worse.

Bentil averages less than 3 (2.7) fouls a game with an average of 34 minutes a game
Dunn also averages less than 3 (2.8) fouls a game with an average of 33 minutes a game.
These two play the majority of the game and how may times have they fouled out? so how are they foul prone? Is it because a little over half the games are BE games and BE officials aren't whistle happy? If that's the case then none of the BE should have survived the first round since all of the players would have been in foul trouble.

Oh stever, you already proved my point about the game. Even when you try to pull up stats it goes against your argument. Anyways my drunk ass is going to bed.

(03-20-2016 12:49 AM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  I didn't say any specific conference.

You didn't say any specific conference but you're saying it as if the Pac shouldn't have gottten the bids it did.

It's nice to stand up for the little guy but it's also good not to totally lose sight of reality. They are major conferences for a reason and that's in part because they have the best teams.

Bentil fouled out 3 of the last 9 games this year....
Dunn had 4 fouls in 5 of his last 9 games this year. 13 of the 33 games he played in he wound up with 4 or 5 fouls. If that's not foul prone, I don't know what is.

In losses this season- Bentil and Dunn both averaged over 3.5 fouls per game. So I guess the refs in the other 10 losses screwed PC then? Give me a break. Dunn is notorious for picking up dumb fouls and you know it.