(03-17-2016 01:25 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote: Listen, Memphis should just fire his azz & offer him nothing and tell him, "if you wanna challenge it we'll see you in court. Our pockets are deeper than yours, our reputation will recover from this debacle but the whole college basketball world will officially be put on notice once this case goes public that you suck. That you were paid millions of dollars to run a perennial top 25 program into the ground. That you ran off player after player after player. That you under performed every season but 1. That you ran down the university that made you a millionaire by constantly discounting its past, insulting its fans, students, boosters & leadership. You have been an unprofessional, defiant liar. So yes, if you want to get in the mud, spend the money you've made on lawyers, & come out on the other end with a tarnished reputation & not even be able to land an analyst gig with CBS sports, by all means Josh, then let's get in the mud. Or, go away quietly in the wind like you should have done in the first place & you would've had your money & reputation. But now the only thing we are offering you as a parting gift is your reputation. Take it or fight it, we can take this to court before a jury of your peers right here in good ole Memphis effing We don't bluff Tennessee."
How do you convince any potential replacement candidates that we would fulfill our contractual obligations going forward? This would be a publicity nightmare.
Contracts should always be front loaded for college coaches anyways. So as to limit crap like this.
(03-16-2016 09:52 PM)bluebacker Wrote: 2.A.12. is interesting it reads simply , "Performing other duties as assigned by the Director of Athletics and/or his or her designee."
That's pretty standard for all university employees. I know it was in my job description when I worked there in IT.
Maybe Bowen needs to make Josh wash the uniforms and sweep the gym floor ?
(03-16-2016 09:52 PM)bluebacker Wrote: 2.A.12. is interesting it reads simply , "Performing other duties as assigned by the Director of Athletics and/or his or her designee."
There are no stipulations or limitations whatsoever as to what these other duties as assigned may or may not be.
Forget negotiating with him, test what he is willing to do for those $10 million. Come up with stunts to humiliate him at games and boost attendance.
Something along these lines:
this is what i keep saying.. don't fire him. Just "reassign" him to something non coaching related. That way we don't have to pay him all at once, and he will get sick of washing jock straps and find another job.
(03-16-2016 09:52 PM)bluebacker Wrote: 2.A.12. is interesting it reads simply , "Performing other duties as assigned by the Director of Athletics and/or his or her designee."
There are no stipulations or limitations whatsoever as to what these other duties as assigned may or may not be.
Forget negotiating with him, test what he is willing to do for those $10 million. Come up with stunts to humiliate him at games and boost attendance.
Something along these lines:
this is what i keep saying.. don't fire him. Just "reassign" him to something non coaching related. That way we don't have to pay him all at once, and he will get sick of washing jock straps and find another job.
(03-17-2016 07:54 AM)UofMstateU Wrote: A court is not going to allow one party to say someone breached and thats it. If its a contract termination type of breach, then the alleged breach has to be communicated to the other party, the other party gets a chance to rebut or fix the breach, and then you go from there. You dont just get to say "in my opinion you breached so I dont owe you any money." Well, you can say it all day long, but you'll end up owing the amount of money due in the contract, plus interest and attorney's fees.
To your point, Josh can't just wave a magic wand and say "I'm right." In the real world this type of situation happens. While the U of M would take a hit, can you imagine the PR nightmare for Josh to have to sue us and explain why he hasn't breached the contract. I'm not going to look it up, but there is something about maintaining the status of the program in the contract. With the right PR campaign the Univeristy could make it hard on Josh.
(03-16-2016 09:52 PM)bluebacker Wrote: 2.A.12. is interesting it reads simply , "Performing other duties as assigned by the Director of Athletics and/or his or her designee."
There are no stipulations or limitations whatsoever as to what these other duties as assigned may or may not be.
Forget negotiating with him, test what he is willing to do for those $10 million. Come up with stunts to humiliate him at games and boost attendance.
Something along these lines:
this is what i keep saying.. don't fire him. Just "reassign" him to something non coaching related. That way we don't have to pay him all at once, and he will get sick of washing jock straps and find another job.
Can't do that either.
why not......that's what "other duties as assigned" means right?
(03-16-2016 09:52 PM)bluebacker Wrote: 2.A.12. is interesting it reads simply , "Performing other duties as assigned by the Director of Athletics and/or his or her designee."
There are no stipulations or limitations whatsoever as to what these other duties as assigned may or may not be.
Forget negotiating with him, test what he is willing to do for those $10 million. Come up with stunts to humiliate him at games and boost attendance.
Something along these lines:
this is what i keep saying.. don't fire him. Just "reassign" him to something non coaching related. That way we don't have to pay him all at once, and he will get sick of washing jock straps and find another job.
Can't do that either.
why not......that's what "other duties as assigned" means right?
no, that means other in addition to the normal duties. not instead of.
(03-17-2016 02:53 AM)John44932 Wrote: Forget negotiating with him, test what he is willing to do for those $10 million. Come up with stunts to humiliate him at games and boost attendance.
Something along these lines:
this is what i keep saying.. don't fire him. Just "reassign" him to something non coaching related. That way we don't have to pay him all at once, and he will get sick of washing jock straps and find another job.
Can't do that either.
why not......that's what "other duties as assigned" means right?
no, that means other in addition to the normal duties. not instead of.
i get it, but I'd like to see him fight it. Go ahead and sue us Josh..lol
(03-17-2016 01:25 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote: Listen, Memphis should just fire his azz & offer him nothing and tell him, "if you wanna challenge it we'll see you in court. Our pockets are deeper than yours, our reputation will recover from this debacle but the whole college basketball world will officially be put on notice once this case goes public that you suck. That you were paid millions of dollars to run a perennial top 25 program into the ground. That you ran off player after player after player. That you under performed every season but 1. That you ran down the university that made you a millionaire by constantly discounting its past, insulting its fans, students, boosters & leadership. You have been an unprofessional, defiant liar. So yes, if you want to get in the mud, spend the money you've made on lawyers, & come out on the other end with a tarnished reputation & not even be able to land an analyst gig with CBS sports, by all means Josh, then let's get in the mud. Or, go away quietly in the wind like you should have done in the first place & you would've had your money & reputation. But now the only thing we are offering you as a parting gift is your reputation. Take it or fight it, we can take this to court before a jury of your peers right here in good ole Memphis effing We don't bluff Tennessee."
How do you convince any potential replacement candidates that we would fulfill our contractual obligations going forward? This would be a publicity nightmare.
Contracts should always be front loaded for college coaches anyways. So as to limit crap like this.
So you give a guy most of his money up front. That's brilliant. I wonder why any of the other geniuses didn't think of it.
(03-17-2016 01:25 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote: Listen, Memphis should just fire his azz & offer him nothing and tell him, "if you wanna challenge it we'll see you in court. Our pockets are deeper than yours, our reputation will recover from this debacle but the whole college basketball world will officially be put on notice once this case goes public that you suck. That you were paid millions of dollars to run a perennial top 25 program into the ground. That you ran off player after player after player. That you under performed every season but 1. That you ran down the university that made you a millionaire by constantly discounting its past, insulting its fans, students, boosters & leadership. You have been an unprofessional, defiant liar. So yes, if you want to get in the mud, spend the money you've made on lawyers, & come out on the other end with a tarnished reputation & not even be able to land an analyst gig with CBS sports, by all means Josh, then let's get in the mud. Or, go away quietly in the wind like you should have done in the first place & you would've had your money & reputation. But now the only thing we are offering you as a parting gift is your reputation. Take it or fight it, we can take this to court before a jury of your peers right here in good ole Memphis effing We don't bluff Tennessee."
How do you convince any potential replacement candidates that we would fulfill our contractual obligations going forward? This would be a publicity nightmare.
Contracts should always be front loaded for college coaches anyways. So as to limit crap like this.
So you give a guy most of his money up front. That's brilliant. I wonder why any of the other geniuses didn't think of it.
Well our "geniuses" came up with something nobody but Ga Tech did so there's that
(03-17-2016 07:54 AM)UofMstateU Wrote: A court is not going to allow one party to say someone breached and thats it. If its a contract termination type of breach, then the alleged breach has to be communicated to the other party, the other party gets a chance to rebut or fix the breach, and then you go from there. You dont just get to say "in my opinion you breached so I dont owe you any money." Well, you can say it all day long, but you'll end up owing the amount of money due in the contract, plus interest and attorney's fees.
To your point, Josh can't just wave a magic wand and say "I'm right." In the real world this type of situation happens. While the U of M would take a hit, can you imagine the PR nightmare for Josh to have to sue us and explain why he hasn't breached the contract. I'm not going to look it up, but there is something about maintaining the status of the program in the contract. With the right PR campaign the Univeristy could make it hard on Josh.
How'd that work out with Austin Nichols? The university was actually correct on that. It was a painful public shaming for the Uof M though.
Josh doesnt have to wave a magic wand or do anything. The university has to. You also wont attract the type of coaches in the future if this is how you act. Its one thing to fire a coach for Josh's performance. Its another thing to say they will fire him and dont want to honor the contract.
There's a reason a lot of "breach of contract" clauses are now left out of contracts. Because they are VERY difficult to prove and win. And thats by design. If you want out of a contract that you yourself signed, you better be able to show that the other party failed, you notified them that they were failing so that there was no miscommunication or misinterpretation of the contract, and that after that, they continued to fail. Other than that, expect to pay up, and pay their attorney's fees.
(03-17-2016 07:54 AM)UofMstateU Wrote: A court is not going to allow one party to say someone breached and thats it. If its a contract termination type of breach, then the alleged breach has to be communicated to the other party, the other party gets a chance to rebut or fix the breach, and then you go from there. You dont just get to say "in my opinion you breached so I dont owe you any money." Well, you can say it all day long, but you'll end up owing the amount of money due in the contract, plus interest and attorney's fees.
To your point, Josh can't just wave a magic wand and say "I'm right." In the real world this type of situation happens. While the U of M would take a hit, can you imagine the PR nightmare for Josh to have to sue us and explain why he hasn't breached the contract. I'm not going to look it up, but there is something about maintaining the status of the program in the contract. With the right PR campaign the Univeristy could make it hard on Josh.
How'd that work out with Austin Nichols? The university was actually correct on that. It was a painful public shaming for the Uof M though.
Josh doesnt have to wave a magic wand or do anything. The university has to. You also wont attract the type of coaches in the future if this is how you act. Its one thing to fire a coach for Josh's performance. Its another thing to say they will fire him and dont want to honor the contract.
There's a reason a lot of "breach of contract" clauses are now left out of contracts. Because they are VERY difficult to prove and win. And thats by design. If you want out of a contract that you yourself signed, you better be able to show that the other party failed, you notified them that they were failing so that there was no miscommunication or misinterpretation of the contract, and that after that, they continued to fail. Other than that, expect to pay up, and pay their attorney's fees.
Exactly. There would need to be documentation from the AD showing where he talked to Josh multiple times about performance and documentation showing Josh had been warned multiple times. Almost like a write up at work. You need paper to back up the breach of contract clause.
(03-17-2016 07:54 AM)UofMstateU Wrote: A court is not going to allow one party to say someone breached and thats it. If its a contract termination type of breach, then the alleged breach has to be communicated to the other party, the other party gets a chance to rebut or fix the breach, and then you go from there. You dont just get to say "in my opinion you breached so I dont owe you any money." Well, you can say it all day long, but you'll end up owing the amount of money due in the contract, plus interest and attorney's fees.
To your point, Josh can't just wave a magic wand and say "I'm right." In the real world this type of situation happens. While the U of M would take a hit, can you imagine the PR nightmare for Josh to have to sue us and explain why he hasn't breached the contract. I'm not going to look it up, but there is something about maintaining the status of the program in the contract. With the right PR campaign the Univeristy could make it hard on Josh.
How'd that work out with Austin Nichols? The university was actually correct on that. It was a painful public shaming for the Uof M though.
Josh doesnt have to wave a magic wand or do anything. The university has to. You also wont attract the type of coaches in the future if this is how you act. Its one thing to fire a coach for Josh's performance. Its another thing to say they will fire him and dont want to honor the contract.
There's a reason a lot of "breach of contract" clauses are now left out of contracts. Because they are VERY difficult to prove and win. And thats by design. If you want out of a contract that you yourself signed, you better be able to show that the other party failed, you notified them that they were failing so that there was no miscommunication or misinterpretation of the contract, and that after that, they continued to fail. Other than that, expect to pay up, and pay their attorney's fees.
The contract specifically enumerates the grounds for which Josh can be suspended or terminated for cause. The paragraph that deals with breach reads:
Quote: "f. Coach's violation of any material term of this Agreement that is not remedied within fourteen (14) days of Coach's receipt of written notice of the violations."
Then there are procedures that the contract lays out for suspension or termination with cause which further require notice that University feels it has grounds to remove Pastner that gives him 10 days to request a hearing before a 5 person panel which is comprised of, among others, 2 people that Pastner gets to choose.
Even if Pastner was just completely failing to hold practices, if he wanted to dig his heels in, he could still make it difficult for the University to remove him. Assuming they got through the panel process with a decision that he was in violation of a material term of the Contract, they should probably suspend him at least once just to build up a paper trail.
The only way he'd be out quickly was if they had him dead to rights on a major violation of NCAA rules (or knowingly tolerating a a major violation), a major violation of school/BOR/state policy (along the lines of sexual harassment), or him getting picked up on a felony such that he'd basically be forced to resign.
Which, you know, I just don't see happening.
(This post was last modified: 03-17-2016 03:54 PM by Briskbas.)
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Having re-read Pastner's Contract....
