I keep seeing their name pop up in expansionism...why??

3rd behind Kansas and Kansas State (which are barely good picks themselves), small market, no good fb recruiting...academics??

they are a trendy basketball pick, a lot like UNLV

they don't add anything

(03-14-2016 02:52 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I keep seeing their name pop up in expansionism...why??

3rd behind Kansas and Kansas State (which are barely good picks themselves), small market, no good fb recruiting...academics??

they are a trendy basketball pick, a lot like UNLV

they don't add anything

As a non-football school---they would be an excellent addition should the AAC lose a pair of high profile basketball names.

(03-14-2016 03:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 02:52 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I keep seeing their name pop up in expansionism...why??

3rd behind Kansas and Kansas State (which are barely good picks themselves), small market, no good fb recruiting...academics??

they are a trendy basketball pick, a lot like UNLV

they don't add anything

As a non-football school---they would be an excellent addition should the AAC lose a pair of high profile basketball names.

This

There is also just the respect factor. They are a well respected program and school even if they aren't a powerhouse.

Also, Wichita is a fairly good-sized metropolitan area with relatively little major college representation (Kansas State is a fair distance off and KU even further) and no professional competition. People overlook Wichita, but it's similar to San Antonio in that it has very little buy-in from the major State programs. So UTSA hopes to cash in on the San Antonio market and Wichita State could well cash in on, not only Wichita, but the entire South-Central Kansas area.

(03-14-2016 03:16 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Also, Wichita is a fairly good-sized metropolitan area with relatively little major college representation (Kansas State is a fair distance off and KU even further) and no professional competition. People overlook Wichita, but it's similar to San Antonio in that it has very little buy-in from the major State programs. So UTSA hopes to cash in on the San Antonio market and Wichita State could well cash in on, not only Wichita, but the entire South-Central Kansas area.

I looked up Witchita's demographics and population and it sounds a lot like Des Moines. Too bad Drake University does not have much recent success in basketball. They could be a good candidate for expansion.

(03-14-2016 02:52 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  I keep seeing their name pop up in expansionism...why??

3rd behind Kansas and Kansas State (which are barely good picks themselves), small market, no good fb recruiting...academics??

they are a trendy basketball pick, a lot like UNLV

they don't add anything

It's a little harsh, but you're correct in the sense that Wichita State is a classic "thinking like a fan and not like a university president" for expansion because of their on-the-court prowess while they do not do well at all with the university president off-the-court metrics that drive expansion. As a result, Wichita State is one of the most overrated candidates for expansion out there by sports fans. In reality, they have no realistic options outside of staying in the MVC. No FBS conference wants them as a non-football member (as much as some fans from the AAC and MWC have argued for it) and none of the non-FBS basketball leagues that have bigger brand names than the MVC (such as the Big East, Atlantic 10 and WCC) want anything to do with Wichita State for institutional fit reasons.

In basketball, we're number 2 in the state. We do dominate the Wichita metro over the other two. The Wichita area is seeing some growth. It's not a major market, but it's not a tiny one either.

Kansas does have some decent talent to offer in football. We're also home to arguably the best JUCO conference in the country in football. With two of the top programs being within about half an hour from Wichita in Hutch and Butler.

The University is also growing in what it's offering to students and the region. A number of businesses are partnering with us and setting up shop on campus. We're also pushing the research side of things, another reason businesses are partnering with us.

Should we add football, we'll obviously have some growing pains, but it really wouldn't take much to ascend to the top in the state. KU doesn't care about football and KSU has never accomplished anything without Snyder there and he will be retiring very soon. Heck, the year after we dropped football, we were still ranked higher than K-State. No guarantees obviously, but if the administration is as determined to do it right, as they claim to be, we will more than hold our own against our sisters up north.

What that means to the AAC or anyone else is for them to decide, but Wichita isn't a poor school. We have a number of big money donors who have been generous so far and could be even more so down the road. I believe we had a collection of some 60+ donors that chipped in to give Marshall his 3M+ a year contract.

If the AAC or MWC loses a school or two...I really think they need to merge or affiliate and form a scheduling alliance.

Take the best of the G5 and hope to be included into a P6

(03-14-2016 03:48 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  In basketball, we're number 2 in the state. We do dominate the Wichita metro over the other two. The Wichita area is seeing some growth. It's not a major market, but it's not a tiny one either.

Kansas does have some decent talent to offer in football. We're also home to arguably the best JUCO conference in the country in football. With two of the top programs being within about half an hour from Wichita in Hutch and Butler.

The University is also growing in what it's offering to students and the region. A number of businesses are partnering with us and setting up shop on campus. We're also pushing the research side of things, another reason businesses are partnering with us.

Should we add football, we'll obviously have some growing pains, but it really wouldn't take much to ascend to the top in the state. KU doesn't care about football and KSU has never accomplished anything without Snyder there and he will be retiring very soon. Heck, the year after we dropped football, we were still ranked higher than K-State. No guarantees obviously, but if the administration is as determined to do it right, as they claim to be, we will more than hold our own against our sisters up north.

What that means to the AAC or anyone else is for them to decide, but Wichita isn't a poor school. We have a number of big money donors who have been generous so far and could be even more so down the road. I believe we had a collection of some 60+ donors that chipped in to give Marshall his 3M+ a year contract.

I think Wichita State does need to add football if it wants to get to the AAC or MWC. That could change the equation; I'm just pushing back against this notion that Wichita State is going to be added as a non-football member to those conferences (which simply isn't happening). That being said, let's not get delusions of grandeur in football. KU and KSU are going to be in the Big 12 and KU has realistic exit options to the Big Ten, SEC or Pac-12 in the event that the Big 12 collapses. Football is a completely different animal than basketball - you can play your way to respect in basketball via the NCAA Tournament, but that simply doesn't occur in football (where you're either in the P5 or you're a have-not).

(03-14-2016 04:08 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-14-2016 03:48 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  In basketball, we're number 2 in the state. We do dominate the Wichita metro over the other two. The Wichita area is seeing some growth. It's not a major market, but it's not a tiny one either.

Kansas does have some decent talent to offer in football. We're also home to arguably the best JUCO conference in the country in football. With two of the top programs being within about half an hour from Wichita in Hutch and Butler.

The University is also growing in what it's offering to students and the region. A number of businesses are partnering with us and setting up shop on campus. We're also pushing the research side of things, another reason businesses are partnering with us.

Should we add football, we'll obviously have some growing pains, but it really wouldn't take much to ascend to the top in the state. KU doesn't care about football and KSU has never accomplished anything without Snyder there and he will be retiring very soon. Heck, the year after we dropped football, we were still ranked higher than K-State. No guarantees obviously, but if the administration is as determined to do it right, as they claim to be, we will more than hold our own against our sisters up north.

What that means to the AAC or anyone else is for them to decide, but Wichita isn't a poor school. We have a number of big money donors who have been generous so far and could be even more so down the road. I believe we had a collection of some 60+ donors that chipped in to give Marshall his 3M+ a year contract.

I think Wichita State does need to add football if it wants to get to the AAC or MWC. That could change the equation; I'm just pushing back against this notion that Wichita State is going to be added as a non-football member to those conferences (which simply isn't happening). That being said, let's not get delusions of grandeur in football. KU and KSU are going to be in the Big 12 and KU has realistic exit options to the Big Ten, SEC or Pac-12 in the event that the Big 12 collapses. Football is a completely different animal than basketball - you can play your way to respect in basketball via the NCAA Tournament, but that simply doesn't occur in football (where you're either in the P5 or you're a have-not).

I agree about us needing football to go anywhere. And I get what you're saying, but KU football is already worse than at least 115 FBS teams and probably 20 FCS teams. Topping them isn't going to be that complicated really. KSU is the question mark. They at least care about football but have done nothing without Snyder. I could definitely see us remaining number 2 in basketball, KU has too much tradition there, and becoming at least number 2 in football in the state. We'll see what KSU does when Snyder retires again. He won't be able to come back and save them next time.

Wichita State is also known for their baseball as well.

I know they were in talks with The MWC a few years back to joining, but you have to have football to join. Even if Gonzaga joins MWC with BYU? They also have to add football as well.

Wichita State's "study" regarding football (study in quotes since president tweeted a photo of a helmet while announcing it) appears to me to be a case of a school realizing that their next logical options (AAC and MWC) are unavailable as a non-football school. Academically, they are Arkansas-Little Rock in a larger city but smaller metro.

If they feel FBS is the only way upward their choices are pretty limited unless MWC or AAC will take a straight from creation football program. Good piece out of the MAC footprint and MAC is at 12, CUSA is at 14, and Sun Belt at 10 for football.

(03-15-2016 10:51 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Wichita State's "study" regarding football (study in quotes since president tweeted a photo of a helmet while announcing it) appears to me to be a case of a school realizing that their next logical options (AAC and MWC) are unavailable as a non-football school. Academically, they are Arkansas-Little Rock in a larger city but smaller metro.

If they feel FBS is the only way upward their choices are pretty limited unless MWC or AAC will take a straight from creation football program. Good piece out of the MAC footprint and MAC is at 12, CUSA is at 14, and Sun Belt at 10 for football.

Yes, I think the realistic options are significantly tougher for Wichita State than what fans are giving them credit for. Look at UMass, which has had a fairly lengthy history as at least a solid basketball program with a strong fan base, excellent academic profile as a flagship school in a massive population state and is a geographic fit for the AAC, yet they're not getting a sniff from them and are now walking around like a zombie as an independent-not-by-choice (unlike, say, BYU). Wichita State is in the position of Boise State for football - they can keep winning and winning, but there's simply a ceiling to where else they can go due to academics and location.

This is honestly a tough one. If Wichita State was guaranteed to get into the AAC or MWC if it added football, then sure, WSU has to make that move. However, both of those leagues have other all-sports options that might be more desirable. Why would the AAC really pick Wichita State over UMass if it needed another football program? Why wouldn't either the AAC or MWC go after more schools in Texas like Rice (which is an academic dream school) or UTSA (a fast growing school in a huge market for both population and recruits), particularly if a school like Houston ends up leaving the AAC for the Big 12? Wichita State could go all-sports to C-USA, Sun Belt or MAC on paper, yet that isn't necessarily going to be better for basketball compared to the MVC.

Essentially, Wichita State is in Conference Purgatory - they're too good for their own conference, but none of the conferences that would be a clear improvement over the MVC (which would be the P5 plus Big East, AAC, MWC and A-10) want Wichita State at all in their current state. At the same time, we would be hard-pressed to say that the AAC and MWC would want Wichita State even if they added football. That is a HUGE assumption. UMass thought for sure that they'd eventually end up in the former football Big East (now AAC) if they just added football and look where they are now... and they are in a MUCH better place geographically and academically compared to Wichita State.