We spoke to Wes Durham of the ACC Network/Fox Sports South on our program tonight. He told us that if there is no ACC Network agreement by July 1st, that 'reportedly' ESPN would owe the ACC $45 million.
PODCAST IS HERE

Wes mentioned something called "cross-platform branding", meaning that whatever Raycom produces it would fall under the 'ACC Network' umbrella.

That is $3 million per member.
I look forward to the podcast link.

Good interview. What did he mean by that if there were to be an ACCN that it would across several channels & not like the SECN & B1GN?

The interview after with the trustee was informative as well. Great show.

(03-09-2016 10:58 PM)Villecard Wrote:  We spoke to Wes Durham of the ACC Network/Fox Sports South on our program tonight. He told us that if there is no ACC Network agreement by July 1st, that 'reportedly' ESPN would owe the ACC $45 million. I'll post the podcast tomorrow.

Not counting that, the ACC makes on $260 million per year on average between 2013/2014 until 2027. Given that the contract is back-loaded, the average is actually slightly higher now, but for the sake of being conservative, I'll stick with $260 million per year. There are 14 full members and 1 partial member, which receives 20% of a share. Assuming that the $45 million increase is the worst case scenario (which is a pretty safe assumption), the ACC could expect to collect a conservative $305 million (once again, the real number is actually slightly higher, but this is conservative). $305,000,000/14.2 shares comes out to a conservative $21.5 million per school ($20 million after the conference gets a full share cut).

The Big XII deal started in 2013 and goes to 2025. Over that time, it's worth $200 million per year on average. Like the ACC deal, the average remaining payout is actually slightly higher than $200 million per year because the deal is back-loaded. Since there are 10 schools in the Big XII, the average per school payout over the deal's life is $20 million. Additionally, the Big XII schools were able to retain more tier 3 rights than their ACC counterparts. As I understand it, those rights are worth about $2 million for most schools. More specifically, it's my understanding that Texas, probably Oklahoma, and possibly KU get more, but everyone else is in the ~$2 million range. That brings the per school payout for the median Big XII school to $22 million. However, once the conference gets a full share cut, the per school payout falls to $18.2 million, plus the ~$2 million of retained rights, equaling $20.2 million.

The Pac 12 deal began in 2012-2013 and continues until 2025. Over that time, it averages $20.83 per school and grows at 4% per year. Assuming that the PACN revenue grows at the same rate, it should average to be about $1 million per school over that time, moving the total Pac 12 payout to $21.83 million, or $20.15 after the conference takes a full share. However, it's also worth noting that the conference had to spend money to launch the network AND schools had to buy back their rights. I'm not sure how much the network launch cost, I know that the B1G has a HUGE buy-in that's at least $45 million (it's 6 years and I assume a $30 million per school distribution, of which the entering school only gets an estimated 75% on average over that time). If the PACN only cost half of that, it would be $22.5 million per school. Beyond that, as noted earlier, the schools had to buy back their rights. Obviously the exact numbers vary, but according to CBS, Stanford and Oregon State each spent $1.3 million buying back rights, and those schools are apparently representative. That means that the Pac spent $23.75 million per school launching their network (I'll revise numbers if I can find better network launch sources). Most endowments get about an 8% return. So, using 8% as the opportunity cost, the PACN's opportunity cost is $1.8 million per year. After that $1.8 million opportunity cost that only the Pac incurred* is netted against the conference's per school yearly media earnings, the Pac makes $18.3 million per school per year over the course of that deal (and is subject to more market volatility than either the ACC or the Big XII equivalent, which is a bad thing for the Pac). Now, it's worth noting that as above, this number is a little conservative because the contracts are back-loaded and they've already begun.

*i.e the ACC and the Big XII schools were able to keep the money in their endowments

So as a brief summary, by my calculations:
*The ACC makes $20 million per school in media money
*The Big XII makes $20.2 million per school in media money (including school-managed rights)
*The Pac makes the equivalent of $18.3 million per school in media money
**The Big XII and the Pac are slightly understated relative to the ACC because the ACC deal ends sooner, but given a 4% yearly increase rate and the length of the deals, that understatement is minimal - especially since they have to deal with more volatility than the ACC.

Does anyone know bowl payouts and/or NCAAT credits?

[EDIT: Another way of looking at the media payouts would be to keep the Pac number at $20.15 million, but add $1.8 million to both the ACC and the Big XII because not having a network let each school keep about $23.8 million in their endowments, which are earning about 8% per year. That would give you:
ACC - $21.9 million per school per year
Big XII - $22 million per school per year
Pac - $20.15 million per school per year]

Well there You have it. No ACC school would jump to the PAC or Big 12. Also the money there is spread differently at this time PAC has only 12 schools while the Big XII only covers 10 schools.

I came up with a slightly different ACC number. I took the $305,000,000 and allocated 80% ($244,000,000) to football and 20% ($61,000,000) to other sports. I divided the $244m by 15 (14 schools plus ACC share, no ND). I divided the $61m by 16 (15 schools plus ACC share).
Other sports: $ 3,812,500
Football: $16,266,667
Total: $20,079,167

The ACC share is money that the schools did earn so if you add that back in the numbers look like this:
Other sports: $ 4,066,667
Football: $17,428,571
Total: $21,495,238

(03-10-2016 06:02 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Well there You have it. No ACC school would jump to the PAC or Big 12.

Wrong.

That nole fella would do his damnedest to strap himself to a rocket that was hooked to the FSU football program and attempt to have it propel all of them to the Big 12 -- only to become the next great Darwin Award candidate.

All in an effort to, I dunno, turn away a $3M bump.

(03-09-2016 10:58 PM)Villecard Wrote:  We spoke to Wes Durham of the ACC Network/Fox Sports South on our program tonight. He told us that if there is no ACC Network agreement by July 1st, that 'reportedly' ESPN would owe the ACC $45 million. I'll post the podcast tomorrow.

It's good to see this confirmed. This takes care of the minor gap with the Big 12 and PAC for the most part.

Barely a drop in the bucket toward the B1G and SEC, but it is what it is.

Should this be taken as that the ACC is owed an additional $45M every year that an ACC network isn't started? A single one time payment of $3M isn't a lot to get excited about in lieu of a network.

(03-10-2016 07:38 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  I came up with a slightly different ACC number. I took the $305,000,000 and allocated 80% ($244,000,000) to football and 20% ($61,000,000) to other sports. I divided the $244m by 15 (14 schools plus ACC share, no ND). I divided the $61m by 16 (15 schools plus ACC share).
Other sports: $ 3,812,500
Football: $16,266,667
Total: $20,079,167

The ACC share is money that the schools did earn so if you add that back in the numbers look like this:
Other sports: $ 4,066,667
Football: $17,428,571
Total: $21,495,238

I got $20 mm and $21.5 mm. Our numbers aren't different. I just rounded the $79,167 and the -4,762 away when I wrote it on this board because they're not material (although in retrospect, I should have called the 20 mm number 20.1 mm). The Big XII number isn't actually 18.2 mm. It's 18.1818181818... mm. I spotted them a little. The Pac number was also big and ugly, so I rounded it to the nearest 0.1 mm.

(03-10-2016 09:10 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 10:58 PM)Villecard Wrote:  We spoke to Wes Durham of the ACC Network/Fox Sports South on our program tonight. He told us that if there is no ACC Network agreement by July 1st, that 'reportedly' ESPN would owe the ACC $45 million. I'll post the podcast tomorrow.

It's good to see this confirmed. This takes care of the minor gap with the Big 12 and PAC for the most part.

Barely a drop in the bucket toward the B1G and SEC, but it is what it is.

Should this be taken as that the ACC is owed an additional $45M every year that an ACC network isn't started? A single one time payment of $3M isn't a lot to get excited about in lieu of a network.

I don't think that we're as far behind the B1G as it looks because of the network startup costs (i.e. like the Pac in my calculation above) and because they might include "revenues" from their gate tax in their numbers. Combined, that could lead to an overstatement of about $7 million compared to the ACC.

The SEC is in a world of its own, though.

I think it's:
SEC
*gap*
B1G
Big XII (by a hair)
ACC
Pac 12

If the ACC has its own net work, how does Notre Dame fit into this business transaction?

' Money for Nothin ' ?

(03-10-2016 09:10 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 10:58 PM)Villecard Wrote:  We spoke to Wes Durham of the ACC Network/Fox Sports South on our program tonight. He told us that if there is no ACC Network agreement by July 1st, that 'reportedly' ESPN would owe the ACC $45 million. I'll post the podcast tomorrow.

It's good to see this confirmed. This takes care of the minor gap with the Big 12 and PAC for the most part.

Barely a drop in the bucket toward the B1G and SEC, but it is what it is.

Should this be taken as that the ACC is owed an additional $45M every year that an ACC network isn't started? A single one time payment of $3M isn't a lot to get excited about in lieu of a network.

I believe he did say per year in the interview. That would make the most sense as well since a network wouldn't be a one time thing either.

Link?

Multiple thoughts.

*One, funny how folks have to create straw man arguments to try and win a debate. I never said FSU needs to go to the Big 12. I said the SEC and B1G will pick apart the ACC when the revenue gap starts to hit $15 Million per team. SEC is at $10 Million now.

*The ACC isn't competing against Pac 12 and Big 12 revenue.....it is competing against B1G and SEC revenue....whether we like it or not.

*The HUGE item missing was whether this $45 Million bump happens every year or one time.

*A $3 Million bump is nice.....The SEC per team revenue this year was over $32 Milion, if the ACC is approaching $22 Million (as suggested in this thread) that is a $10 Million gap after the bump. I am thrilled about the bump....but is this REALLY a win? If the gap keeps growing, the ACC is gonna have issues.

*Again, the war isn't the Big 12 vs the ACC....both conferences are losing. It is those conferences against the B1G and SEC.

(03-10-2016 11:00 AM)nole Wrote:  Multiple thoughts.

*One, funny how folks have to create straw man arguments to try and win a debate. I never said FSU needs to go to the Big 12. I said the SEC and B1G will pick apart the ACC when the revenue gap starts to hit $15 Million per team. SEC is at $10 Million now.

*The ACC isn't competing against Pac 12 and Big 12 revenue.....it is competing against B1G and SEC revenue....whether we like it or not.

*The HUGE item missing was whether this $45 Million bump happens every year or one time.

*A $3 Million bump is nice.....The SEC per team revenue this year was over $32 Milion, if the ACC is approaching $22 Million (as suggested in this thread) that is a $10 Million gap after the bump. I am thrilled about the bump....but is this REALLY a win? If the gap keeps growing, the ACC is gonna have issues.

*Again, the war isn't the Big 12 vs the ACC....both conferences are losing. It is those conferences against the B1G and SEC.

The SEC number is more than media. The ACC number is just media, and it's an average over the length of a contract. In other words, you're comparing apples this year to Oranges in 2 years.

That said, the SEC *is* in a class of its own.

No, I am comparing CONFERNECE PAYOUT (all revenue that conferences payout to their members). SEC is at $32 million. Last year it was at $20 Million.

Last year ACC was at $19,200. No way the ACC payout is higher than $22 Million this year.

The gap is huge, no matter how folks slice the data.

(03-10-2016 11:06 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 11:00 AM)nole Wrote:  Multiple thoughts.

*One, funny how folks have to create straw man arguments to try and win a debate. I never said FSU needs to go to the Big 12. I said the SEC and B1G will pick apart the ACC when the revenue gap starts to hit $15 Million per team. SEC is at $10 Million now.

*The ACC isn't competing against Pac 12 and Big 12 revenue.....it is competing against B1G and SEC revenue....whether we like it or not.

*The HUGE item missing was whether this $45 Million bump happens every year or one time.

*A $3 Million bump is nice.....The SEC per team revenue this year was over $32 Milion, if the ACC is approaching $22 Million (as suggested in this thread) that is a $10 Million gap after the bump. I am thrilled about the bump....but is this REALLY a win? If the gap keeps growing, the ACC is gonna have issues.

*Again, the war isn't the Big 12 vs the ACC....both conferences are losing. It is those conferences against the B1G and SEC.

The SEC number is more than media. The ACC number is just media, and it's an average over the length of a contract. In other words, you're comparing apples this year to Oranges in 2 years.

(03-10-2016 11:09 AM)nole Wrote:  No, I am comparing CONFERNECE PAYOUT (all revenue that conferences payout to their members). SEC is at $32 million. Last year it was at $20 Million.

Last year ACC was at $19,200. No way the ACC payout is higher than $22 Million this year.

The gap is huge, no matter how folks slice the data.

The only numbers previously kicked around in the thread were media numbers.

"...if the ACC is approaching $22 Million (as suggested in this thread)..."

And I think that you posted this before I made me edit, but you're right that the SEC is in a class of its own. Still, they sold their soul to get that way.

Not just SEC, B1G as well. SEC was first to make the big jump, but B1G is right behind.

Once that gap starts to hit $15 Million, bad things happen to these other conference. I am not sure if there is anything the ACC can do to keep the gap from getting that large, but time for playing it safe may be disappearing.

I fear the ACC prefers denial and status quo above all else. Status quo will be impossible with that large a gap.

(03-10-2016 11:12 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 11:09 AM)nole Wrote:  No, I am comparing CONFERNECE PAYOUT (all revenue that conferences payout to their members). SEC is at $32 million. Last year it was at $20 Million.

Last year ACC was at $19,200. No way the ACC payout is higher than $22 Million this year.

The gap is huge, no matter how folks slice the data.

The only numbers previously kicked around in the thread were media numbers.

"...if the ACC is approaching $22 Million (as suggested in this thread)..."

And I think that you posted this before I made me edit, but you're right that the SEC is in a class of its own. Still, they sold their soul to get that way.

One way I know this was a fair assessment of the network situation by Wes Durham is that, I think he said, while $3 mill is nice, it is not as much as the SEC and potentially not as much as the PAC 12 could make.
One other take from the interview IMO was that the ACC has more major markets than the PAC 12 (I didn't know that). This may influence the type of network the ACC eventually gets.