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Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 05:40 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  ACC/Big 12 merger to create a true fourth power conference - 24 full members, with Notre Dame scheduling agreement carried over.

Who says no first? ACC or Big 12?

4th Power Conference? Who is number 3? It sure isn't the Pac.
03-07-2016 06:20 PM
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
I'm curious to know who would be the other team that would join Louisville in the so called 24 merger conference of the ACC and Big12 west division???

West division - Texas, TT, TCU, Oklahomo, OSU, Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, WVU, ( Louisville, and who????)

East division - FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake, UVA, VT, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt

So I'm thinking it would be Pitt having history with WVU in the back yard brawl, but just curious what others would think if this so called merger would take place???
03-07-2016 06:46 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 04:28 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  IMO, the data is not going to support expansion and they will not expand. That leads to Oklahoma announcing for the B1G and the rest is whatever takes place.

Here is the thing---the 2 G5's don't have to be worth 20 million each in the traditional sense.

1) Bowlsby has already confirmed that the present media agreement has a clause that keeps all pro rata shares at present levels when adding #11 and #12. That means, the ESPN I already contractually obligated to the Big12 to pay 20 million each for the schools. Their value has been predetermined. That horse is already out of the barn for the networks.

2) A CCG will add 25-30 million.

3) If the LHN can be converted to a B12 Network, the B12 will need 2 more teams in order to supply enough content for a B12 network. Adding 2 more teams adds 2 more football games (for a total of12) plus 12 more basketball games (for a total of 72).

4) The new schools will not get a full share immediately, meaning it will phase in over a 4-6 year period. So, upon entry, the 2 schools will get say a half share---meaning there will immediately be an extra 20 million to share (from the media contract) among the existing Big12 members (from the media contract).

5) The transformation of the HHN to the B12N will ease tensions within the Big2 and spin off extra money. If chosen wisely, the new G5 teams will provide large numbers of potential subscribers that could make the two G5's far more valuable in this model than they would be under a typical G5 valuation model.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2016 07:02 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-07-2016 07:00 PM
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TomThumb Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 06:20 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  4th Power Conference? Who is number 3? It sure isn't the Pac.

3 of the P-5 have poached a member from another P-5 recently. The other 2 have had at least one member poached by another P-5 recently.

Even when the B12 was making more money than the PAC and doing better on the football field, it was the PAC which attempted a raid on the B12, not the other way around.

In terms of pure power, the PAC certainly stands above the B12 and ACC on the totem pole. Chalk it up to their favorable geographic situation where they dominate the entire western US with no competition at all from another P-5.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2016 07:19 PM by TomThumb.)
03-07-2016 07:19 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #25
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  3) If the LHN can be converted to a B12 Network ...

03-lmfao
03-07-2016 07:25 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 04:56 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Its also a guaranteed recipe for SWC Syndrome when more than half your teams are all heavily concentrated in just one recruiting/TV market which is why none of the TX schools will vote for it.

SWC Syndrome is a real thing and a serious issue. If you've been told by your Dr that you have any of the signs and symptoms use must prepare. The leading SWC Syndrome Specialist out there is Dr Dennis Dodd. He's diagnosed the Big 12 and should be taken seriously. I also find it ironic that the SWC died from SWC Syndrome.
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03-07-2016 07:41 PM
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Lenvillecards Online
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Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 06:46 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  I'm curious to know who would be the other team that would join Louisville in the so called 24 merger conference of the ACC and Big12 west division???

West division - Texas, TT, TCU, Oklahomo, OSU, Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, WVU, ( Louisville, and who????)

East division - FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake, UVA, VT, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt

So I'm thinking it would be Pitt having history with WVU in the back yard brawl, but just curious what others would think if this so called merger would take place???

I don't think that it could be a full merger, 6 tops. 5 IF ND came all in. I would say Texas, Oklahoma, TT/Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas & WV. Broken into a 4x5.

West- Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, TT/Baylor

North- Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, Louisville, WV/ND

South- FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, WF

East- NC, Duke, NC State, Virginia, VT
03-07-2016 08:27 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 07:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  3) If the LHN can be converted to a B12 Network ...

03-lmfao

That's the only way a Big-12 Network is feasible. You cant have a B12 Network as a complete start up with NO UT content. With a conversion, start up costs are nil---and the UT content is included in the B12N content. The downside is Texas is getting the first 15 million the B12N earns every year. No other way its happening in the current environment. That's why the 2 schools selected will be based entirely on their ability to provide subscribers.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2016 08:29 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-07-2016 08:28 PM
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owl at the moon Online
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Post: #29
Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  3) If the LHN can be converted to a B12 Network, the B12 will need 2 more teams in order to supply enough content for a B12 network. Adding 2 more teams adds 2 more football games (for a total of12) plus 12 more basketball games (for a total of 72).
This struck me as ironic that a network that only has one school now would need to add two schools to have enough content to pull it off. They'd be adding 9 schools already, that should be plenty of content!!!

To your other points #1,2,4,5 however, "spot on" and there is definitely an opening for expansion here.
03-07-2016 08:43 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 08:43 PM)owl at the moon Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  3) If the LHN can be converted to a B12 Network, the B12 will need 2 more teams in order to supply enough content for a B12 network. Adding 2 more teams adds 2 more football games (for a total of12) plus 12 more basketball games (for a total of 72).
This struck me as ironic that a network that only has one school now would need to add two schools to have enough content to pull it off. They'd be adding 9 schools already, that should be plenty of content!!!

To your other points #1,2,4,5 however, "spot on" and there is definitely an opening for expansion here.

That's the problem with the LHN. Limited content.

How many times can you watch a repeat of the 2006 Rose Bowl? I swear that's on a dozen time a week. Even with the 2 extra schools the network will still only have access to 12 football games a year (mostly involving FCS opponents).
03-07-2016 09:02 PM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
I think OU will give Texas a deadline. Either Texas and OU work out a deal with the pac 12 or OU jumps to the big 10 with KU.
03-07-2016 09:28 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 07:19 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 06:20 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  4th Power Conference? Who is number 3? It sure isn't the Pac.

3 of the P-5 have poached a member from another P-5 recently. The other 2 have had at least one member poached by another P-5 recently.

Even when the B12 was making more money than the PAC and doing better on the football field, it was the PAC which attempted a raid on the B12, not the other way around.

In terms of pure power, the PAC certainly stands above the B12 and ACC on the totem pole. Chalk it up to their favorable geographic situation where they dominate the entire western US with no competition at all from another P-5.

In what way? I'll give you that the Rose Bowl is better than the Orange Bowl, but if that's the basis of your claim, you're skating out on pretty thin ice.

EDIT: It's also worth pointing out that the reason why there is a P5 is because of the ACC. IF, hypothetically, the SEC and the B1G were to cherry pick Texas, KU, WVU, and OU from the Big XII and the Big XII stopped being a power conference, would the ACC vault back "up" to the Pac's level because then the Pac wouldn't have raided another major conference either?
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2016 09:34 PM by nzmorange.)
03-07-2016 09:31 PM
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 06:46 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  I'm curious to know who would be the other team that would join Louisville in the so called 24 merger conference of the ACC and Big12 west division???

West division - Texas, TT, TCU, Oklahomo, OSU, Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, WVU, ( Louisville, and who????)

East division - FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake, UVA, VT, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt

So I'm thinking it would be Pitt having history with WVU in the back yard brawl, but just curious what others would think if this so called merger would take place???
Umm you did forget Baylor

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03-08-2016 12:14 AM
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ArQ Offline
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 04:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The evidence is mounting. The signs are there for the Big 12. The conference has to do something to address its future.

While there remains a slow, deliberate pace among Big 12 members considering expansion and/or a conference championship game, the league’s clock is ticking.

“The last time they went through this [expansion] admittedly it was a fire drill,” commissioner Bob Bowlsby said. “They were down to eight members and they were scrambling. But it wasn’t a very thorough process.”

This will be. No more knee-jerk West Virginia expansion when, in hindsight, Louisville would have been the better choice.

Meanwhile, no school is leaving. Not in the near future. It’s more about shoring up a future that, without some kind of change, looks uncertain. This is about the Big 12 continuing to exist into a distant future.

Bowlsby summed it up this way when asked the financial gap between his league and the SEC, a number that currently stands at about $9 million per year in rights fee revenue.

“If we do nothing, 12 years from now, we’ll be $20 million per school behind the SEC and the Big Ten,” he said.

Expansion timing: Bowlsby confirmed something regarding his conference’s future will have to be decided by the summer. If the league expands, it would probably take two years for the new teams to join. When they do begin play in 2018, there would be only six years left on the Big 12’s current deal with ESPN and Fox.



http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/writer/d...gs-to-know

Adding Cincinnati and Memphis, then West Virginia is no longer an island. The Big12 map will look good.
03-08-2016 12:40 AM
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
Oklahoma and Kansas to the SEC is the only scenario that forces UT's hand. No way that UT can let OU and A&M pair up in the SEC. That's the one possibility that could threaten UT's big dog status. At that point, Texas has to act, and neither the BigXii nor independence would be options.
03-08-2016 01:18 AM
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 08:27 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 06:46 PM)BigOwensboroCard Wrote:  I'm curious to know who would be the other team that would join Louisville in the so called 24 merger conference of the ACC and Big12 west division???

West division - Texas, TT, TCU, Oklahomo, OSU, Kansas, KSU, Iowa State, WVU, ( Louisville, and who????)

East division - FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, UNC, Duke, NC State, Wake, UVA, VT, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt

So I'm thinking it would be Pitt having history with WVU in the back yard brawl, but just curious what others would think if this so called merger would take place???

I don't think that it could be a full merger, 6 tops. 5 IF ND came all in. I would say Texas, Oklahoma, TT/Baylor, Oklahoma State, Kansas & WV. Broken into a 4x5.

West- Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, TT/Baylor

North- Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, Louisville, WV/ND

South- FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, WF

East- NC, Duke, NC State, Virginia, VT

3 if ND comes in. Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas. Add WVU if ND says No.
03-08-2016 08:24 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #37
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 08:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 07:25 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-07-2016 07:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  3) If the LHN can be converted to a B12 Network ...

03-lmfao

That's the only way a Big-12 Network is feasible. You cant have a B12 Network as a complete start up with NO UT content. With a conversion, start up costs are nil---and the UT content is included in the B12N content. The downside is Texas is getting the first 15 million the B12N earns every year. No other way its happening in the current environment. That's why the 2 schools selected will be based entirely on their ability to provide subscribers.

The reason I 03-lmfao wasn't because I think you are wrong about feasibility, to the contrary I agree, the LHN and a B12N are incompatible. I just don't think Texas is giving up the LHN or "folding" it into a B12N, because on the other hand, there is no way a B12N provides any kind of serious benefits to the other schools if Texas is skimming the first $15m off the top, which is what Texas surely would demand to do that.

And, despite Boren's seeming "all for one" stance, if somehow Texas were to negotiate that deal, Oklahoma would want to do the same, asking for say $12m off the top, and then what do you have left for the other 8 (or 10) schools? Not much.

So the real issue here isn't the existence of the LHN per se, it's that Texas is not willing to share the dollar value of its brand with its conference mates. And it just isn't willing to do that.
03-08-2016 08:48 AM
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-07-2016 05:12 PM)Dasville Wrote:  That's a pretty hard stance that WVU was a "knee-jerk" reaction and UofL, "in hindsight", would have been better. He is suggesting that the Big 12, at 10 teams, would be better positioned with UofL in the conference to make a move. 07-coffee3

TCU was the knee jerk reaction. They needed to add markets.
03-08-2016 10:07 AM
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RUScarlets Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
TCU was not knee jerk. They were coming off BCS berths and a Rose Bowl win. They absolutely deserved to get in. WVU might have been knee jerk, but they were thinking football and that was the best football school. It was the geography that made no sense. They got greedy and paid the price but not expanding to the full 12. Do the sensible thing, take UC and UConn/Memphis... or BYU football only. and add some revenue with the CCG to buy some time and give yourself some credibility. This move needs to happens and it needs to happen now.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2016 10:33 AM by RUScarlets.)
03-08-2016 10:32 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Big-12 Has No Choice But To Do Something Soon--CBS Sports
(03-08-2016 10:32 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  TCU was not knee jerk. They were coming off BCS berths and a Rose Bowl win. They absolutely deserved to get in. WVU might have been knee jerk, but they were thinking football and that was the best football school. It was the geography that made no sense. They got greedy and paid the price but not expanding to the full 12. Do the sensible thing, take UC and UConn/Memphis... or BYU football only. and add some revenue with the CCG to buy some time and give yourself some credibility. This move needs to happens and it needs to happen now.

Agree with the bolded. By dragging this out the Big Twelve has made any move they make as a sign of weakness. The narrative now is that the Big Twelve has "no choice". If they would have expanded sooner it would have given more credence to a move to improve the brand, increase revenue, expand footprint, etc.

I think they need to pull the trigger ASAP. If they wait until after the conference meeting in May or even wait until later it will come across poorly.
03-08-2016 10:40 AM
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