I thought this might lead to some productive discussion:

http://www.sportsminorityreport.blogspot.com

The most interesting part of the article for me is the part where he says ESPN doesn't want to push another network in SEC territory. Well, we all know what that means. Some of the ACC's best brands are currently in the SEC footprint.

The question is what does ESPN plan to do about that problem?

(03-20-2016 07:03 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  The most interesting part of the article for me is the part where he says ESPN doesn't want to push another network in SEC territory. Well, we all know what that means. Some of the ACC's best brands are currently in the SEC footprint.

The question is what does ESPN plan to do about that problem?

Well, that is a good question. I'll take a guess at some things:

1. They let nature take its course with the ACC.

2. They have in mind using those two extra channels that the SECN carries. With a little bit of tweaking and rearranging the furniture you could put an ACCN on one of those two overflow channels and base it out of Charolotte which could also be used to cover the SEC East. And base the Big 12 out of the LHN in Dallas and use it to cover the SEC West. The SECN would have a dedicated channel, the Big 12N would be on one of the overflow channels, the ACCN would be on the other, and ESPN could convert ESPN Classic or ESPNU to the overflow for all three. That's oodles of programming. Sell them all as a package and let the SECN pick up the footprints of all.

Personally if you take that option I still think we need to hit 16 and ESPN and the ACC would have to get the Irish all in and pick up Connecticut and West Virginia. The SEC could pick up Miami for a bigger share of Florida and add a school to put us in Dallas. T.C.U. would make 10th happy. Then you could add Cincinnati, Brigham Young, and Colorado State to get the Big 12 back to 12. If they are dying to get to 16 then pick up New Mexico, Tulane, Memphis and Nevada. At least 5 of those add to the footprint of the combined conferences.

ACC:

Boston College, Connecticut, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

Duke, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Virginia

Louisville, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State

SEC:
Florida, Georgia, Miami, South Carolina

Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Kentucky, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State

Arkansas, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Big 12:

Brigham Young, Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State

Cincinnati, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma

Colorado State, Kansas, Memphis, Oklahoma State

Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, Tulane

Or absorb the Big 12:

ACC:

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami

Duke, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia

Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech


SEC:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M

Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, West Virginia

Or if you need to keep everyone:

ACC:

Boston College, Connecticut, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, Wake Forest

Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Texas, Texas Tech


SEC:

Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M

Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, T.C.U.



I vote for option #1

I can see the ACC disintegrating although theoretically I could see a core remaining. Giving the ACC a network could really end up backfiring on ESPN. The value is not going to be great and the league is already a good bit behind other conferences in 1st and 2nd Tier revenue so would a mediocre network really make up significant ground? I don't think it would.

When I look at the Big 12 from multiple angles, I can see the value of the league going forward. Giving the league a network and allowing them a better foundation with which to expand could be very profitable. It wouldn't quite be on the same level as the SEC, but it wouldn't have to be. The LHN offers the perfect vehicle.

So if we're working with the assumption that ESPN doesn't really want another network in the SEC footprint then the most logical course of action is to expand the SEC footprint into ACC territory. At the same time, move a few key products to the Big 12 and bundle the SEC Network with a Big 12 Network.

So how about this?

SEC adds Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, and Duke

Big 12 adds Louisville, Cincinnati, NC State, Wake Forest, Pittsburgh, and BYU

Big Ten adds Virginia, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and UConn

The Big 12 Network doesn't have to cross into existing SEC territory except for the state of KY. ESPN loses out on a few programs to the B1G, but keeps most of what it currently has. Not sure what Notre Dame does...perhaps they affiliate with the Big 12.

The SEC gains the NC market and monopolizes content within its current region.

- Texas A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss

- Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

- Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Duke

- Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina

(03-21-2016 03:36 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I can see the ACC disintegrating although theoretically I could see a core remaining. Giving the ACC a network could really end up backfiring on ESPN. The value is not going to be great and the league is already a good bit behind other conferences in 1st and 2nd Tier revenue so would a mediocre network really make up significant ground? I don't think it would.

When I look at the Big 12 from multiple angles, I can see the value of the league going forward. Giving the league a network and allowing them a better foundation with which to expand could be very profitable. It wouldn't quite be on the same level as the SEC, but it wouldn't have to be. The LHN offers the perfect vehicle.

So if we're working with the assumption that ESPN doesn't really want another network in the SEC footprint then the most logical course of action is to expand the SEC footprint into ACC territory. At the same time, move a few key products to the Big 12 and bundle the SEC Network with a Big 12 Network.

So how about this?

SEC adds Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, and Duke

Big 12 adds Louisville, Cincinnati, NC State, Wake Forest, Pittsburgh, and BYU

Big Ten adds Virginia, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and UConn

The Big 12 Network doesn't have to cross into existing SEC territory except for the state of KY. ESPN loses out on a few programs to the B1G, but keeps most of what it currently has. Not sure what Notre Dame does...perhaps they affiliate with the Big 12.

The SEC gains the NC market and monopolizes content within its current region.

- Texas A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss

- Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

- Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Duke

- Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina

I actually liked a suggestion by a Kansas fan at LandThieves. He suggested Florida State and Clemson to the SEC, Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech to the Big 10.

So the SEC East would be:
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

The SEC West would be:
Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Miss St., Missouri, A&M

That is fairly well balanced.

He said then the ACC could add Notre Dame in full with UConn & Cincinnati and divide North & South:

North:
Boston College, Connecticut, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse

South:
Duke, Miami, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Wake Forest

The ACC would become essentially just a basketball conference that plays football.

I thought it was a reasonable solution. They would cease being a P football conference.

If you want to combine the SEC, ACC & Big 12 into a mega network & form a P4, there are 3 options as I see it.

Option 1: Dissolve the Big 12. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas & WV. The ACC would get Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa State. ND would remain an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri, A&M, Arkansas

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, WV, Vanderbilt

Central: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Miss State, Kentucky

ACC
West: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Iowa State, Louisville, Miami

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, BC, VT

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke

Option 2: Dissolve the Big 12 but move Missouri to the ACC & VT to the SEC. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, WV & TCU. The ACC would get Texas, Kansas, Iowa State & Baylor. Same with ND as option 1.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, A&M, TCU, LSU

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, VT, WV

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Miss State, Vanderbilt

ACC
West: Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, Louisville

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, Miami, BC

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Duke, NC, Virginia

Option 3: Dissolve the ACC. TCU goes to the SEC. The SEC gets NC, Duke & Virginia. The Big 12 gets FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC St, Louisville, Pittsburgh & Syracuse. ND remains an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC. They join the B18 & play 4 football games against the B18 & 2 against the SEC.

SEC
West: A&M, Missouri, LSU, Arkansas, TCU, Kentucky

East: Florida, Georgia, SC, NC, Duke, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Miss State, Vanderbilt

Big 18
West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TT, Kansas State

North: Kansas, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WV

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC State

If you could get Tobacco Road to let NC State move and/or get ND to join a conference in football then more options open up.

(03-21-2016 07:51 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If you want to combine the SEC, ACC & Big 12 into a mega network & form a P4, there are 3 options as I see it.

Option 1: Dissolve the Big 12. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas & WV. The ACC would get Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa State. ND would remain an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri, A&M, Arkansas

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, WV, Vanderbilt

Central: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Miss State, Kentucky

ACC
West: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Iowa State, Louisville, Miami

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, BC, VT

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke

Option 2: Dissolve the Big 12 but move Missouri to the ACC & VT to the SEC. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, WV & TCU. The ACC would get Texas, Kansas, Iowa State & Baylor. Same with ND as option 1.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, A&M, TCU, LSU

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, VT, WV

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Miss State, Vanderbilt

ACC
West: Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, Louisville

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, Miami, BC

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Duke, NC, Virginia

Option 3: Dissolve the ACC. TCU goes to the SEC. The SEC gets NC, Duke & Virginia. The Big 12 gets FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC St, Louisville, Pittsburgh & Syracuse. ND remains an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC. They join the B18 & play 4 football games against the B18 & 2 against the SEC.

SEC
West: A&M, Missouri, LSU, Arkansas, TCU, Kentucky

East: Florida, Georgia, SC, NC, Duke, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Miss State, Vanderbilt

Big 18
West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TT, Kansas State

North: Kansas, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WV

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC State

If you could get Tobacco Road to let NC State move and/or get ND to join a conference in football then more options open up.

Seriously Lenville, I think eventually you will see the SEC and Big 10 consolidate to outright own the regions they are in. That doesn't mean that either conference will take every school within their boundary. It does mean that they will consider taking every school that fits within their boundary.

SEC: Florida State, Clemson, and if they ever become available North Carolina (and Duke if it is a requirement of UNC), Oklahoma, Texas (but I doubt they would come), more remotely Georgia Tech or Louisville. If Virginia was interested of course we would be and ditto for Virginia Tech.

Big 10: North Carolina (Duke if required), Virginia, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, possibly Syracuse, or Virginia Tech.

What happens to everyone else, or those who don't join the Big 10 or SEC? They form a P4 of their own.

(03-21-2016 09:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 07:51 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If you want to combine the SEC, ACC & Big 12 into a mega network & form a P4, there are 3 options as I see it.

Option 1: Dissolve the Big 12. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas & WV. The ACC would get Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa State. ND would remain an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri, A&M, Arkansas

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, WV, Vanderbilt

Central: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Miss State, Kentucky

ACC
West: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Iowa State, Louisville, Miami

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, BC, VT

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke

Option 2: Dissolve the Big 12 but move Missouri to the ACC & VT to the SEC. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, WV & TCU. The ACC would get Texas, Kansas, Iowa State & Baylor. Same with ND as option 1.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, A&M, TCU, LSU

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, VT, WV

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Miss State, Vanderbilt

ACC
West: Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, Louisville

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, Miami, BC

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Duke, NC, Virginia

Option 3: Dissolve the ACC. TCU goes to the SEC. The SEC gets NC, Duke & Virginia. The Big 12 gets FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC St, Louisville, Pittsburgh & Syracuse. ND remains an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC. They join the B18 & play 4 football games against the B18 & 2 against the SEC.

SEC
West: A&M, Missouri, LSU, Arkansas, TCU, Kentucky

East: Florida, Georgia, SC, NC, Duke, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Miss State, Vanderbilt

Big 18
West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TT, Kansas State

North: Kansas, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WV

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC State

If you could get Tobacco Road to let NC State move and/or get ND to join a conference in football then more options open up.

Seriously Lenville, I think eventually you will see the SEC and Big 10 consolidate to outright own the regions they are in. That doesn't mean that either conference will take every school within their boundary. It does mean that they will consider taking every school that fits within their boundary.

SEC: Florida State, Clemson, and if they ever become available North Carolina (and Duke if it is a requirement of UNC), Oklahoma, Texas (but I doubt they would come), more remotely Georgia Tech or Louisville. If Virginia was interested of course we would be and ditto for Virginia Tech.

Big 10: North Carolina (Duke if required), Virginia, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, possibly Syracuse, or Virginia Tech.

What happens to everyone else, or those who don't join the Big 10 or SEC? They form a P4 of their own.

The premise was ESPN forming a mega conference network with the SEC, ACC & the Big 12. To do it before the GOR's expire leaves little room for consolidation. Under this scenario I think my options are valid, but I'm not saying that I agree with the premise.

(03-22-2016 09:03 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 09:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-21-2016 07:51 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  If you want to combine the SEC, ACC & Big 12 into a mega network & form a P4, there are 3 options as I see it.

Option 1: Dissolve the Big 12. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas & WV. The ACC would get Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa State. ND would remain an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Missouri, A&M, Arkansas

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, WV, Vanderbilt

Central: Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Miss State, Kentucky

ACC
West: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Iowa State, Louisville, Miami

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, BC, VT

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke

Option 2: Dissolve the Big 12 but move Missouri to the ACC & VT to the SEC. The SEC could get Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, WV & TCU. The ACC would get Texas, Kansas, Iowa State & Baylor. Same with ND as option 1.

SEC
West: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arkansas, A&M, TCU, LSU

East: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, SC, VT, WV

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Miss State, Vanderbilt

ACC
West: Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Baylor, Iowa State, Louisville

North: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, NC State, WF, Miami, BC

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Duke, NC, Virginia

Option 3: Dissolve the ACC. TCU goes to the SEC. The SEC gets NC, Duke & Virginia. The Big 12 gets FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC St, Louisville, Pittsburgh & Syracuse. ND remains an independent but with ESPN instead of NBC. They join the B18 & play 4 football games against the B18 & 2 against the SEC.

SEC
West: A&M, Missouri, LSU, Arkansas, TCU, Kentucky

East: Florida, Georgia, SC, NC, Duke, Virginia

Central: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Miss State, Vanderbilt

Big 18
West: Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, TT, Kansas State

North: Kansas, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, WV

South: FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, VT, NC State

If you could get Tobacco Road to let NC State move and/or get ND to join a conference in football then more options open up.

Seriously Lenville, I think eventually you will see the SEC and Big 10 consolidate to outright own the regions they are in. That doesn't mean that either conference will take every school within their boundary. It does mean that they will consider taking every school that fits within their boundary.

SEC: Florida State, Clemson, and if they ever become available North Carolina (and Duke if it is a requirement of UNC), Oklahoma, Texas (but I doubt they would come), more remotely Georgia Tech or Louisville. If Virginia was interested of course we would be and ditto for Virginia Tech.

Big 10: North Carolina (Duke if required), Virginia, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, possibly Syracuse, or Virginia Tech.

What happens to everyone else, or those who don't join the Big 10 or SEC? They form a P4 of their own.

The premise was ESPN forming a mega conference network with the SEC, ACC & the Big 12. To do it before the GOR's expire leaves little room for consolidation. Under this scenario I think my options are valid, but I'm not saying that I agree with the premise.

Lenville there won't be mega conferences for a long long time. If they occur at all it will be piece by piece until they wake up one day and realize that they are a mega conference. Why? Powerful people in the many smaller conferences today would have to give up power. How many powerful people that you know would willingly give up their power?

The GOR's aren't the big issue. The big issue are folks at Texas, North Carolina, and schools like them in every conference who would fight any form of a larger conference for fear of being marginalized at worst and being treated like the equal they have never been willing to be at best.

That is why realignment to date has happened over a decade or two by nibbling at the weakest conferences until their alpha dog school finally relents. Texas might join another conference when OU leaves but even that isn't certain. Taking F.S.U. and Clemson might not be enough to get UNC to throw in the towel either. It would definitely hit them in the pocketbook though.

I think the next bite out of the Big 12 will be the one that does them in. The ACC has already been nibbled. We'll see.