https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-things...-pensions/

Pension holidays, steep increases in teachers' salaries, and lopsided ratios of teacher contributions to pension payouts have caused the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund’s unfunded liabilities to shoot up to $9 billion in 2015.

The Chicago Teachers Union, or CTU, has threatened to strike as early as April 1 over the issue of teacher pension “pickups,” according to the Chicago Sun-Times. Negotiations over a new contract to replace the 2012 contract that expired in June 2015 stalled after CTU rejected the most recent offer from Chicago Public Schools, or CPS, in February. In exchange for pay increases and a moratorium on “economic” layoffs, among other CPS concessions, the contract would have phased out CPS’ practice of “picking up” most of the contributions teachers are required to make toward their pension fund.

After years of pension holidays, overly generous pension benefits, a lack of transparency and rampant cronyism, both the CPS system and the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund, or CTPF, are now broke.

...

1. Since 1981, CPS has paid the vast majority of what teachers are supposed to contribute toward their pensions in the form of teacher pension pickups

...

2. Teacher pension contributions are out of sync with payouts. The average career teacher currently receives an annual pension of $73,350 and will receive a lifetime payout of over $2 million.

...

5. CTPF debt has grown to more than $9 billion since 1999.

...

6. A well-managed pension fund should be fully funded. CTPF is just 51.5 percent funded.

...

9. CTPF is actuarially upside down. There are now more inactive employees and beneficiaries in CTPF than there are active workers paying into the pension fund.

...

11. Almost 40 percent of teachers retire before age 60.

A $73k/year pension seems out of wack for executives of fortune 100 corps, much less teachers. No wonder they're bankrupt.

(03-06-2016 02:10 AM)Kronke Wrote:  A $73k/year pension seems out of wack for executives of fortune 100 corps, much less teachers. No wonder they're bankrupt.

And retiring at 55 means 20-25 years of that pension.

My generation cannot pay for this. The insanity has to stop.

in the 'sip, state workers get a 13th check....

the dumbest shite I've ever heard of.....

thanks FDR......you Fk'd us(a) Dem Right up the arse with the new deal.....

(03-06-2016 12:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-things...-pensions/

Pension holidays, steep increases in teachers' salaries, and lopsided ratios of teacher contributions to pension payouts have caused the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund’s unfunded liabilities to shoot up to $9 billion in 2015.

The Chicago Teachers Union, or CTU, has threatened to strike as early as April 1 over the issue of teacher pension “pickups,” according to the Chicago Sun-Times. Negotiations over a new contract to replace the 2012 contract that expired in June 2015 stalled after CTU rejected the most recent offer from Chicago Public Schools, or CPS, in February. In exchange for pay increases and a moratorium on “economic” layoffs, among other CPS concessions, the contract would have phased out CPS’ practice of “picking up” most of the contributions teachers are required to make toward their pension fund.

After years of pension holidays, overly generous pension benefits, a lack of transparency and rampant cronyism, both the CPS system and the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund, or CTPF, are now broke.

...

1. Since 1981, CPS has paid the vast majority of what teachers are supposed to contribute toward their pensions in the form of teacher pension pickups

...

2. Teacher pension contributions are out of sync with payouts. The average career teacher currently receives an annual pension of $73,350 and will receive a lifetime payout of over $2 million.

...

5. CTPF debt has grown to more than $9 billion since 1999.

...

6. A well-managed pension fund should be fully funded. CTPF is just 51.5 percent funded.

...

9. CTPF is actuarially upside down. There are now more inactive employees and beneficiaries in CTPF than there are active workers paying into the pension fund.

...

11. Almost 40 percent of teachers retire before age 60.

Sounds like they based the teachers pension system on that of Greece.

Labor negotiations are supposed to be adversarial and at-an-arms-length. But in many of these public sector faux-negotiations, we have the unions negotiating with people that they helped get elected.

These contracts should be thrown out and those who participated should be charged with fraud.

In reality, the contract obligations can never be met. Many, especially those below the age of 50, will never see the benefits they are counting on and to prolong the charade is abusive.

But the teachers believe that the contracts will be bailed out. Bit of advice to the teachers, better to negotiate now for something, far less, because there will be no bailouts and you're destined to be dumped by the curb in 20 years.

Teachers overrate their value.

(03-06-2016 02:54 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 02:10 AM)Kronke Wrote:  A $73k/year pension seems out of wack for executives of fortune 100 corps, much less teachers. No wonder they're bankrupt.

And retiring at 55 means 20-25 years of that pension.

The Alabama teachers retirement allows one to retire at any age after 25 years, so many teachers will "retire" from Alabama public schools at age 50 or so then go teach at a private school or, if they live close enough, go teach in a border state. My sisterinlaw's mom did that. She did 25 years in Alabama and is retiring again from Georgia with 12 years of service.

(03-06-2016 03:37 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 12:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-things...-pensions/

Pension holidays, steep increases in teachers' salaries, and lopsided ratios of teacher contributions to pension payouts have caused the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund’s unfunded liabilities to shoot up to $9 billion in 2015.

The Chicago Teachers Union, or CTU, has threatened to strike as early as April 1 over the issue of teacher pension “pickups,” according to the Chicago Sun-Times. Negotiations over a new contract to replace the 2012 contract that expired in June 2015 stalled after CTU rejected the most recent offer from Chicago Public Schools, or CPS, in February. In exchange for pay increases and a moratorium on “economic” layoffs, among other CPS concessions, the contract would have phased out CPS’ practice of “picking up” most of the contributions teachers are required to make toward their pension fund.

After years of pension holidays, overly generous pension benefits, a lack of transparency and rampant cronyism, both the CPS system and the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund, or CTPF, are now broke.

...

1. Since 1981, CPS has paid the vast majority of what teachers are supposed to contribute toward their pensions in the form of teacher pension pickups

...

2. Teacher pension contributions are out of sync with payouts. The average career teacher currently receives an annual pension of $73,350 and will receive a lifetime payout of over $2 million.

...

5. CTPF debt has grown to more than $9 billion since 1999.

...

6. A well-managed pension fund should be fully funded. CTPF is just 51.5 percent funded.

...

9. CTPF is actuarially upside down. There are now more inactive employees and beneficiaries in CTPF than there are active workers paying into the pension fund.

...

11. Almost 40 percent of teachers retire before age 60.

Sounds like they based the teachers pension system on that of Greece.

Actually what it sounds like is Ruiner BS to try and bankrupt the Chicago schools(which he has suggested).

(03-06-2016 07:41 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 03:37 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 12:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-things...-pensions/

Pension holidays, steep increases in teachers' salaries, and lopsided ratios of teacher contributions to pension payouts have caused the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund’s unfunded liabilities to shoot up to $9 billion in 2015.

The Chicago Teachers Union, or CTU, has threatened to strike as early as April 1 over the issue of teacher pension “pickups,” according to the Chicago Sun-Times. Negotiations over a new contract to replace the 2012 contract that expired in June 2015 stalled after CTU rejected the most recent offer from Chicago Public Schools, or CPS, in February. In exchange for pay increases and a moratorium on “economic” layoffs, among other CPS concessions, the contract would have phased out CPS’ practice of “picking up” most of the contributions teachers are required to make toward their pension fund.

After years of pension holidays, overly generous pension benefits, a lack of transparency and rampant cronyism, both the CPS system and the Chicago Teachers’ Pension Fund, or CTPF, are now broke.

...

1. Since 1981, CPS has paid the vast majority of what teachers are supposed to contribute toward their pensions in the form of teacher pension pickups

...

2. Teacher pension contributions are out of sync with payouts. The average career teacher currently receives an annual pension of $73,350 and will receive a lifetime payout of over $2 million.

...

5. CTPF debt has grown to more than $9 billion since 1999.

...

6. A well-managed pension fund should be fully funded. CTPF is just 51.5 percent funded.

...

9. CTPF is actuarially upside down. There are now more inactive employees and beneficiaries in CTPF than there are active workers paying into the pension fund.

...

11. Almost 40 percent of teachers retire before age 60.

Sounds like they based the teachers pension system on that of Greece.

Actually what it sounds like is Ruiner BS to try and bankrupt the Chicago schools(which he has suggested).

If they can not pay their debt, then they are already bankrupt.

One thing NC has done right over the years is administer their public employees' pension fund. It is one of the most solid in the country. Full retirement takes 30 years of service and runs at about 50% of average for the highest three straight years of employment. Of course pay is one of the lowest in the country and they seem to be trying to drive teachers out before they reach retirement.

(03-06-2016 08:54 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  One thing NC has done right over the years is administer their public employees' pension fund. It is one of the most solid in the country. Full retirement takes 30 years of service and runs at about 50% of average for the highest three straight years of employment. Of course pay is one of the lowest in the country and they seem to be trying to drive teachers out before they reach retirement.

No union involvement in buying the politicians who make the contracts probably helps.

When you adjust for inflation North Carolina sits above 10 other states, including California...

NCarolina $30,778 0.958 $32,127.35
R.Island $39,196 1.233 $31,789.13
NDakota $32,019 1.012 $31,639.33
Colorado $32,126 1.019 $31,526.99
W Virginia $32,533 1.037 $31,372.23
Mass. $40,600 1.304 $31,134.97
California $41,259 1.343 $30,721.52
S Dakota $29,851 1.025 $29,122.93
N . H. $34,280 1.182 $29,001.69
Vermont $35,541 1.238 $28,708.40
Maine $31,835 1.147 $27,755.01
Montana $27,274 1.027 $26,556.96
Oregon $33,549 1.295 $25,906.56
Hawaii $41,027 1.686 $24,333.93

Now when you consider that most teachers unions charge about 1K per year then you would also be above

Alaska $44,166 1.335 $33,083.15
Missouri $30,064 0.915 $32,856.83
Conn. $42,924 1.318 $32,567.53
New York $43,839 1.356 $32,329.65
Arizona $31,874 0.988 $32,261.13

And you would be within 1K of the following states

Wash. $36,335 1.06 $34,278.30
Wisconsin $33,546 0.981 $34,195.72
Minnesota $34,505 1.015 $33,995.07
Nebraska $30,844 0.923 $33,417.12
Nevada $35,358 1.065 $33,200.00

So to sum up... You're higher than 14 states in pure salary. When you factor in another 1K because you don't pay dues you're higher than about 20 states and within 1K of the median.

(03-06-2016 09:22 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(03-06-2016 08:54 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  One thing NC has done right over the years is administer their public employees' pension fund. It is one of the most solid in the country. Full retirement takes 30 years of service and runs at about 50% of average for the highest three straight years of employment. Of course pay is one of the lowest in the country and they seem to be trying to drive teachers out before they reach retirement.

No union involvement in buying the politicians who make the contracts probably helps.

When you adjust for inflation North Carolina sits above 10 other states, including California...

NCarolina $30,778 0.958 $32,127.35
R.Island $39,196 1.233 $31,789.13
NDakota $32,019 1.012 $31,639.33
Colorado $32,126 1.019 $31,526.99
W Virginia $32,533 1.037 $31,372.23
Mass. $40,600 1.304 $31,134.97
California $41,259 1.343 $30,721.52
S Dakota $29,851 1.025 $29,122.93
N . H. $34,280 1.182 $29,001.69
Vermont $35,541 1.238 $28,708.40
Maine $31,835 1.147 $27,755.01
Montana $27,274 1.027 $26,556.96
Oregon $33,549 1.295 $25,906.56
Hawaii $41,027 1.686 $24,333.93

Now when you consider that most teachers unions charge about 1K per year then you would also be above

Alaska $44,166 1.335 $33,083.15
Missouri $30,064 0.915 $32,856.83
Conn. $42,924 1.318 $32,567.53
New York $43,839 1.356 $32,329.65
Arizona $31,874 0.988 $32,261.13

And you would be within 1K of the following states

Wash. $36,335 1.06 $34,278.30
Wisconsin $33,546 0.981 $34,195.72
Minnesota $34,505 1.015 $33,995.07
Nebraska $30,844 0.923 $33,417.12
Nevada $35,358 1.065 $33,200.00

So to sum up... You're higher than 14 states in pure salary. When you factor in another 1K because you don't pay dues you're higher than about 20 states and within 1K of the median.

Association dues are $460.00 a year. Also I'm not sure what numbers you are using. My best guess is these are old numbers for starting pay. They aren't average salaries.

Dear Mach:

Lent will be over soon.

I never want to tell a group they simply aren't worth that and this time is no exception.

However, pay needs to be reasonable and must be sustainable. When it isn't sustainable in a situation like this the folks receiving are essentially stealing from those who come after them. That is unacceptable.

Still, this same thing is going to happen to cities and states across the country.

(03-07-2016 11:29 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I never want to tell a group they simply aren't worth that and this time is no exception.

However, pay needs to be reasonable and must be sustainable. When it isn't sustainable in a situation like this the folks receiving are essentially stealing from those who come after them. That is unacceptable.

Still, this same thing is going to happen to cities and states across the country.

Yessir. Georgia's state pension system is starting to hit a wall for various reasons, from growing number of retirees to fewer paying in because of personnel cuts during recession and switches in some professions in state system to 401(k) type retirement programs.

I think it's already one of biggest expenses state has, too, somewhere right up there with education (which is mostly salary already), schools, etc.

Personnel costs are biggest aspect of a lot of local government budgets, from pay to retirement to insurance. Probably close to 75-80 percent in some cases. I know that was true at local school board and local county governments -- and the bigger they got the more people they had to have (teachers, admin, etc).