Idaho has had an open ended invitation to join Big Sky football.

Now all of a sudden they have two months to decide .

Try independence and risk being stranded .

I have to wonder if the school asked for the deadline to cover their tracks?

Or is the Big Sky trying to force their hand?

NMSU is going the independent route for two years.
Idaho should do the same .
Just for the sake of looking like they tried everything if nothing else.

I say drop football before dropping down.
The Big Sky does not need a fourteenth team.

(03-03-2016 12:15 PM)MJG Wrote:  Idaho has had an open ended invitation to join Big Sky football.

Now all of a sudden they have two months to decide .

Try independence and risk being stranded .

I have to wonder if the school asked for the deadline to cover their tracks?

Or is the Big Sky trying to force their hand?

NMSU is going the independent route for two years.
Idaho should do the same .
Just for the sake of looking like they tried everything if nothing else.

I say drop football before dropping down.
The Big Sky does not need a fourteenth team.

From what I can glean from published reports, Idaho and NMSU can continue playing football in the SBC for two more seasons. It isn't until the 2018 season that they need an alternative home.

Are you saying that the Big Sky is insisting that they join immediately, or just that they have to commit to that now while working through the next two years schedules?

And has NMSU made any decision yet about what route they will take? I hadn't heard that they have ruled out the possibility of joining another conference. If C-USA has already closed that door, I guess they don't have any other option right now.

Big Sky wants a 14th team to split into divisions.

I think the Big Sky needs to have Idaho make a decision once and for all. Join the Big Sky for football or eventually risk being kicked out. Yes, the Big Sky will kick out Idaho back to the WAC so all members of the Big Sky play football. They took in Idaho to give them a soft landing with the other sports and knowing that the Sun Belt wouldn't keep Idaho indefinitely and Idaho would have no where to go except to the Big Sky. It is a gamble that was taken with a 5 year timeline for the Big Sky.
I'm sure the Big Sky sees several opportunities if Idaho doesn't join. Azusa Pacific finished its transition status for D2 and can be a good target for the Big Sky for a full membership. Simon Frazier is now a D2 members and if the pilot program for Canadian schools to join the D1 level, they would also be a pretty nice target for the Big Sky.

Big Sky wants a decision by May 4th regarding whether they will play in the league in 2018.

This isn't an ultimatum. It's an invitation with a deadline. I presume Idaho has some reason for wanting a deadline. Maybe they want to give their boosters one last chance to try to raise the money to make a go of FBS independence. Maybe they want to make a hail mary effort to get into the Mountain West. It's hard to know.

In hockey a couple of years ago, as the CCHA was falling apart, the WCHA extended Bowling Green an invitation and gave Bowling Green a couple of months to decide. Although this wasn't publicized at the time, my impression is that Bowling Green was working through a couple of scenarios. They were giving the NCHC some time to consider making an invitation. (I think the NCHC was trying to lure Notre Dame; Bowling Green would have paired well with Notre Dame.) They also might have been exploring the possibility of putting together a new CCHA that would have included some schools in Western New York.

Ultimately, after working some scenarios, Bowling Green accepted the WCHA.

I suspect Idaho will accept the Big Sky.

Sometimes, decisions like this take some time.

(03-03-2016 01:22 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  This isn't an ultimatum. It's an invitation with a deadline. I presume Idaho has some reason for wanting a deadline. Maybe they want to give their boosters one last chance to try to raise the money to make a go of FBS independence. Maybe they want to make a hail mary effort to get into the Mountain West. It's hard to know.

In hockey a couple of years ago, as the CCHA was falling apart, the WCHA extended Bowling Green an invitation and gave Bowling Green a couple of months to decide. Although this wasn't publicized at the time, my impression is that Bowling Green was working through a couple of scenarios. They were giving the NCHC some time to consider making an invitation. They also might have been exploring the possibility of putting together a new CCHA that would have included some schools in Western New York.

Ultimately, after working some scenarios, Bowling Green accepted the WCHA.

I suspect Idaho will accept the Big Sky.

Sometimes, decisions like this take some time.

The thing is, if Idaho commits now to going FCS in two years, it kills their immediate recruiting and drives underclassmen away, making their final FBS seasons even more lame duck than they would be anyway. Even an uncertain FBS future is easier to sell than a certain non-FBS one.

If you're going FCS, you might as well do it as soon as you can.

(03-03-2016 12:46 PM)ken d Wrote:  And has NMSU made any decision yet about what route they will take? I hadn't heard that they have ruled out the possibility of joining another conference. If C-USA has already closed that door, I guess they don't have any other option right now.

Not happening, with UAB coming back that puts CUSA back at 14 teams.

(03-03-2016 01:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:22 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  This isn't an ultimatum. It's an invitation with a deadline. I presume Idaho has some reason for wanting a deadline. Maybe they want to give their boosters one last chance to try to raise the money to make a go of FBS independence. Maybe they want to make a hail mary effort to get into the Mountain West. It's hard to know.

In hockey a couple of years ago, as the CCHA was falling apart, the WCHA extended Bowling Green an invitation and gave Bowling Green a couple of months to decide. Although this wasn't publicized at the time, my impression is that Bowling Green was working through a couple of scenarios. They were giving the NCHC some time to consider making an invitation. They also might have been exploring the possibility of putting together a new CCHA that would have included some schools in Western New York.

Ultimately, after working some scenarios, Bowling Green accepted the WCHA.

I suspect Idaho will accept the Big Sky.

Sometimes, decisions like this take some time.

The thing is, if Idaho commits now to going FCS in two years, it kills their immediate recruiting and drives underclassmen away, making their final FBS seasons even more lame duck than they would be anyway. Even an uncertain FBS future is easier to sell than a certain non-FBS one.

If you're going FCS, you might as well do it as soon as you can.

They have million-dollar football guarantee games lined up for future seasons, and that money might go away or be cut in half if the Vandals move to FCS before those games are played.

If Idaho moves to FCS starting in 2017, their money game at Missouri that year will be cancelled outright, because Mizzou already has an FCS opponent that season (Missouri State).

Idaho might be able to hang onto the 2018 money game at Florida because the Gators have not (yet) scheduled an FCS opponent for that season.

(03-03-2016 01:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  If you're going FCS, you might as well do it as soon as you can.

I think we can assume that Idaho is still working on some scenarios they believe might be able to keep them in FBS. Why else would the Big Sky give them time unless Idaho wanted some time to work a couple of other angles, first?

Idaho screams 1AA...why fight it?

Idaho can only support on 1A team.

(03-03-2016 12:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Big Sky wants a 14th team to split into divisions.

I think the Big Sky needs to have Idaho make a decision once and for all. Join the Big Sky for football or eventually risk being kicked out. Yes, the Big Sky will kick out Idaho back to the WAC so all members of the Big Sky play football. They took in Idaho to give them a soft landing with the other sports and knowing that the Sun Belt wouldn't keep Idaho indefinitely and Idaho would have no where to go except to the Big Sky. It is a gamble that was taken with a 5 year timeline for the Big Sky.
I'm sure the Big Sky sees several opportunities if Idaho doesn't join. Azusa Pacific finished its transition status for D2 and can be a good target for the Big Sky for a full membership. Simon Frazier is now a D2 members and if the pilot program for Canadian schools to join the D1 level, they would also be a pretty nice target for the Big Sky.

So was Idaho getting kicked out if they got extended ?
This deadline just happened and is a reaction to the Sun Belt not extending Idaho.
Divisions in FCS for what? a championship game is not allowed.
What happens if we drop football its a better option than FCS going forward?

This "deadline" is transparently silly. The Big Sky has had a standing invitation to us for 20 years and suddenly we're supposed to believe we only have until May 4th to accept?

Even if the ultimatum were real, they can stuff it. Idaho fans care about playing precisely one school in the Big Sky (Montana). It's not like we can go FCS for a few years and then come back up. If we go down, we're stuck there forever. It's idiotic to even contemplate making that decision immediately without even trying the indy route for a while.

(03-03-2016 02:42 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  This "deadline" is transparently silly. The Big Sky has had a standing invitation to us for 20 years and suddenly we're supposed to believe we only have until May 4th to accept?

Even if the ultimatum were real, they can stuff it. Idaho fans care about playing precisely one school in the Big Sky (Montana). It's not like we can go FCS for a few years and then come back up. If we go down, we're stuck there forever. It's idiotic to even contemplate making that decision immediately without even trying the indy route for a while.

Except you already did the Indy route and everyone knows its a failure. FCS is better than no football. Just ask all the other schools that are adding them at all levels. In fact, if Idaho did drop football, that only raises Idaho St more.

(03-03-2016 02:47 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 02:42 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  This "deadline" is transparently silly. The Big Sky has had a standing invitation to us for 20 years and suddenly we're supposed to believe we only have until May 4th to accept?

Even if the ultimatum were real, they can stuff it. Idaho fans care about playing precisely one school in the Big Sky (Montana). It's not like we can go FCS for a few years and then come back up. If we go down, we're stuck there forever. It's idiotic to even contemplate making that decision immediately without even trying the indy route for a while.

Except you already did the Indy route and everyone knows its a failure. FCS is better than no football. Just ask all the other schools that are adding them at all levels. In fact, if Idaho did drop football, that only raises Idaho St more.

We didn't "do the indy route." We had to slap together an indy schedule for 2013 on about 5 months notice as a temporary band-aid, played one year as an independent, and then went into the Sun Belt.

If we try it again, we have 2 years notice to put together a decent schedule. It probably means 2 or 3 money games rather than the 1 per year we currently have scheduled. That's not the end of the world. We've always been able to get H&H's with Sun Belt, MAC & MWC schools and I'm sure we can continue to do enough of that to fill our minimum home games, especially with NMSU and UMass also in the mix. It's worth a try.

Dropping football didn't hurt Gonzaga or other schools who dropped the sport.

Idaho will continue to be the flagship followed by Idaho St and then Boise just like it is now.

(03-03-2016 02:42 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  This "deadline" is transparently silly. The Big Sky has had a standing invitation to us for 20 years and suddenly we're supposed to believe we only have until May 4th to accept?

Even if the ultimatum were real, they can stuff it. Idaho fans care about playing precisely one school in the Big Sky (Montana). It's not like we can go FCS for a few years and then come back up. If we go down, we're stuck there forever. It's idiotic to even contemplate making that decision immediately without even trying the indy route for a while.

You are closer to the on-scene action but my understanding was that May 4th was strictly related to the 2018 season and not "if you don't accept suck eggs and die"

(03-03-2016 04:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 02:42 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  This "deadline" is transparently silly. The Big Sky has had a standing invitation to us for 20 years and suddenly we're supposed to believe we only have until May 4th to accept?

Even if the ultimatum were real, they can stuff it. Idaho fans care about playing precisely one school in the Big Sky (Montana). It's not like we can go FCS for a few years and then come back up. If we go down, we're stuck there forever. It's idiotic to even contemplate making that decision immediately without even trying the indy route for a while.

You are closer to the on-scene action but my understanding was that May 4th was strictly related to the 2018 season and not "if you don't accept suck eggs and die"

Yeah, that's what worries me. Fullerton actually soft-pedaled the date today, so I get the feeling this is mostly coming from our president, which would mean he wants to go Big Sky even though our AD doesn't.

(03-03-2016 01:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:22 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  This isn't an ultimatum. It's an invitation with a deadline. I presume Idaho has some reason for wanting a deadline. Maybe they want to give their boosters one last chance to try to raise the money to make a go of FBS independence. Maybe they want to make a hail mary effort to get into the Mountain West. It's hard to know.

In hockey a couple of years ago, as the CCHA was falling apart, the WCHA extended Bowling Green an invitation and gave Bowling Green a couple of months to decide. Although this wasn't publicized at the time, my impression is that Bowling Green was working through a couple of scenarios. They were giving the NCHC some time to consider making an invitation. They also might have been exploring the possibility of putting together a new CCHA that would have included some schools in Western New York.

Ultimately, after working some scenarios, Bowling Green accepted the WCHA.

I suspect Idaho will accept the Big Sky.

Sometimes, decisions like this take some time.

The thing is, if Idaho commits now to going FCS in two years, it kills their immediate recruiting and drives underclassmen away, making their final FBS seasons even more lame duck than they would be anyway. Even an uncertain FBS future is easier to sell than a certain non-FBS one.

If you're going FCS, you might as well do it as soon as you can.

They have million-dollar football guarantee games lined up for future seasons, and that money might go away or be cut in half if the Vandals move to FCS before those games are played.

If Idaho moves to FCS starting in 2017, their money game at Missouri that year will be cancelled outright, because Mizzou already has an FCS opponent that season (Missouri State).

Idaho might be able to hang onto the 2018 money game at Florida because the Gators have not (yet) scheduled an FCS opponent for that season.

If Idaho is looking to reclassify, advance notice is better for all involved.

Penn State, LSU and Indiana have contracted revenue source games and need time to replace or renegotiate terms to appropriate levels if they don't already have FCS lined up or they need to replace because they don't want to play FCS.

There's a four game home/home with SJSU to address as well.

Far better to deal with that this summer than in December before the season as happened to the people who had UAB scheduled in 2015.

Recruiting-wise, Idaho signed kids in February assuming no redshirt their junior and senior years would be FCS if Idaho moves in 2018. The class before would be seniors in 2018.

Among players on campus currently a move to FCS in 2018 doesn't impact 46 of them at all based on the posted roster. The big impact is on the RS Sophs and RS Freshmen who would have to lose a year in transferring or play a year of juco.

I don't know what Idaho plans to do, my gut feeling is they take the Big Sky offer unless there is some sort of major rallying of the fans with significant cash involved.

(03-03-2016 04:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:22 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  This isn't an ultimatum. It's an invitation with a deadline. I presume Idaho has some reason for wanting a deadline. Maybe they want to give their boosters one last chance to try to raise the money to make a go of FBS independence. Maybe they want to make a hail mary effort to get into the Mountain West. It's hard to know.

In hockey a couple of years ago, as the CCHA was falling apart, the WCHA extended Bowling Green an invitation and gave Bowling Green a couple of months to decide. Although this wasn't publicized at the time, my impression is that Bowling Green was working through a couple of scenarios. They were giving the NCHC some time to consider making an invitation. They also might have been exploring the possibility of putting together a new CCHA that would have included some schools in Western New York.

Ultimately, after working some scenarios, Bowling Green accepted the WCHA.

I suspect Idaho will accept the Big Sky.

Sometimes, decisions like this take some time.

The thing is, if Idaho commits now to going FCS in two years, it kills their immediate recruiting and drives underclassmen away, making their final FBS seasons even more lame duck than they would be anyway. Even an uncertain FBS future is easier to sell than a certain non-FBS one.

If you're going FCS, you might as well do it as soon as you can.

They have million-dollar football guarantee games lined up for future seasons, and that money might go away or be cut in half if the Vandals move to FCS before those games are played.

If Idaho moves to FCS starting in 2017, their money game at Missouri that year will be cancelled outright, because Mizzou already has an FCS opponent that season (Missouri State).

Idaho might be able to hang onto the 2018 money game at Florida because the Gators have not (yet) scheduled an FCS opponent for that season.

If Idaho is looking to reclassify, advance notice is better for all involved.

Penn State, LSU and Indiana have contracted revenue source games and need time to replace or renegotiate terms to appropriate levels if they don't already have FCS lined up or they need to replace because they don't want to play FCS.

There's a four game home/home with SJSU to address as well.

Far better to deal with that this summer than in December before the season as happened to the people who had UAB scheduled in 2015.

Recruiting-wise, Idaho signed kids in February assuming no redshirt their junior and senior years would be FCS if Idaho moves in 2018. The class before would be seniors in 2018.

Among players on campus currently a move to FCS in 2018 doesn't impact 46 of them at all based on the posted roster. The big impact is on the RS Sophs and RS Freshmen who would have to lose a year in transferring or play a year of juco.

I don't know what Idaho plans to do, my gut feeling is they take the Big Sky offer unless there is some sort of major rallying of the fans with significant cash involved.

I'm sure we'd have to kick away our H&H with Wyoming and the home half of our series with Nevada too. Plus, we still owe future road games to Temple, NIU, ODU and Fresno from our slapped-together 2013 indy year and I don't know what happens with those.

The small and mid-sized donors are almost universally against FCS with many (including me!) threatening to end all athletic contributions, but there are 3-4 big money people who outweigh all of us and as long as they can be kept in the tent I'm sure Staben will have no problem ignoring us.

(03-03-2016 04:43 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 04:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:33 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:22 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  This isn't an ultimatum. It's an invitation with a deadline. I presume Idaho has some reason for wanting a deadline. Maybe they want to give their boosters one last chance to try to raise the money to make a go of FBS independence. Maybe they want to make a hail mary effort to get into the Mountain West. It's hard to know.

In hockey a couple of years ago, as the CCHA was falling apart, the WCHA extended Bowling Green an invitation and gave Bowling Green a couple of months to decide. Although this wasn't publicized at the time, my impression is that Bowling Green was working through a couple of scenarios. They were giving the NCHC some time to consider making an invitation. They also might have been exploring the possibility of putting together a new CCHA that would have included some schools in Western New York.

Ultimately, after working some scenarios, Bowling Green accepted the WCHA.

I suspect Idaho will accept the Big Sky.

Sometimes, decisions like this take some time.

The thing is, if Idaho commits now to going FCS in two years, it kills their immediate recruiting and drives underclassmen away, making their final FBS seasons even more lame duck than they would be anyway. Even an uncertain FBS future is easier to sell than a certain non-FBS one.

If you're going FCS, you might as well do it as soon as you can.

They have million-dollar football guarantee games lined up for future seasons, and that money might go away or be cut in half if the Vandals move to FCS before those games are played.

If Idaho moves to FCS starting in 2017, their money game at Missouri that year will be cancelled outright, because Mizzou already has an FCS opponent that season (Missouri State).

Idaho might be able to hang onto the 2018 money game at Florida because the Gators have not (yet) scheduled an FCS opponent for that season.

If Idaho is looking to reclassify, advance notice is better for all involved.

Penn State, LSU and Indiana have contracted revenue source games and need time to replace or renegotiate terms to appropriate levels if they don't already have FCS lined up or they need to replace because they don't want to play FCS.

There's a four game home/home with SJSU to address as well.

Far better to deal with that this summer than in December before the season as happened to the people who had UAB scheduled in 2015.

Recruiting-wise, Idaho signed kids in February assuming no redshirt their junior and senior years would be FCS if Idaho moves in 2018. The class before would be seniors in 2018.

Among players on campus currently a move to FCS in 2018 doesn't impact 46 of them at all based on the posted roster. The big impact is on the RS Sophs and RS Freshmen who would have to lose a year in transferring or play a year of juco.

I don't know what Idaho plans to do, my gut feeling is they take the Big Sky offer unless there is some sort of major rallying of the fans with significant cash involved.

I'm sure we'd have to kick away our H&H with Wyoming and the home half of our series with Nevada too. Plus, we still owe future road games to Temple, NIU, ODU and Fresno from our slapped-together 2013 indy year and I don't know what happens with those.

The small and mid-sized donors are almost universally against FCS with many (including me!) threatening to end all athletic contributions, but there are 3-4 big money people who outweigh all of us and as long as they can be kept in the tent I'm sure Staben will have no problem ignoring us.

We were talking about that at the ODU board. Apparently ODU is only paying something like $100-150K for the back end of the home-home series, so whether Idaho is FBS or FCS, they're not going to find a cheaper game. They'll need to know what level Idaho will be playing so they don't run the risk of getting two FCS games in a season, but since it's not happening until 2022, they've got time to figure it out.