(03-07-2016 08:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Nobody knows what The American's exit fee is. (At least nobody outside the league presidents).

The $10M exit fee was for the old league, under the old bylaws. It's probably different now.

The $5M wasn't an exit fee, technically, it was a payment made to settle any damages incurred by not carrying out the contract.

I can't imagine that the new league is operating under the same bylaws, written for a delicately balanced hybrid conference. Likewise, the $10M exit fee was for a coast-to-coast "near-power-conference" in football with a media rights deal worth upwards of $100M per year. None of that still applies. The new exit fee is set by whatever bylaws were adopted since the C7 left. Those bylaws haven't been made public, so we have no idea what the new exit fee is. Could be $10M, could be $5M, could be zero if you give 366 days notice.

Same league. Same bylaws. The AAC is the legal corporate successor to the Big East. The Big East is the new conference.

There is no upside to lowering the exit fee. It won't stop or even interfere with a team going to a P5 and it pretty much throws a complete end to any schools migrating to other G5s.

(03-07-2016 11:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-07-2016 08:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Nobody knows what The American's exit fee is. (At least nobody outside the league presidents).

The $10M exit fee was for the old league, under the old bylaws. It's probably different now.

The $5M wasn't an exit fee, technically, it was a payment made to settle any damages incurred by not carrying out the contract.

I can't imagine that the new league is operating under the same bylaws, written for a delicately balanced hybrid conference. Likewise, the $10M exit fee was for a coast-to-coast "near-power-conference" in football with a media rights deal worth upwards of $100M per year. None of that still applies. The new exit fee is set by whatever bylaws were adopted since the C7 left. Those bylaws haven't been made public, so we have no idea what the new exit fee is. Could be $10M, could be $5M, could be zero if you give 366 days notice.

Same league. Same bylaws. The AAC is the legal corporate successor to the Big East. The Big East is the new conference.

It's the same league, and the bylaws still held until they were replaced (a process which would have been governed by the old bylaws). But there are a lot of provisions in the old Big East bylaws which relate to the balance of power between "Division I-A Schools" and "Non-IA Schools", clauses about rotation in office between the two groups, etc which are no longer relevant.

I'm pretty sure that 7.05(a) (The Finance Committee shall consist of four members, 2 from football schools and 2 from nonfootball schools) is not in your bylaws anymore.

Never mind the parts of the bylaws that didn't quite mean what they said on paper, because they were superceded by the Pre-Nup. (2 FBS schools required for dissolution?) I"d be really surprised if there hasn't been a wholesale revision and replacement of the old bylaws by a new constitution.

The old Big East, headquartered in Providence was a hybrid league with 16 members. The American Athlietic Conference, headquartered in PRovidence, legal successor to the old Big East, has 11 members, 3 of which were members of the old conference. Writing new bylaws is not a hugely difficult task, and the old set of bylaws makes no sense for your league.

Quote:There is no upside to lowering the exit fee. It won't stop or even interfere with a team going to a P5 and it pretty much throws a complete end to any schools migrating to other G5s.

OK, that's a good point. There are good practical and political reasons to keep the exit fee at $10M. Practically, it's compensation for the losers in the P5 sweepstakes. Politically, who's going to be the school president to suggest lowering it?

(03-07-2016 05:45 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-07-2016 05:09 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It will likely be zero for UCONN, UC and USF since they have money still due to them from the BE exit fees, credits and the sale of the conference name. These would likely be negotiated on exit.

going independent?

that BE money dries up in roughly 2 years...tick tock

Two years of cashing those checks is more than enough time. But thanks for your concern. We'll send postcards.

Speaking of basketball credits, does the NIT or CBI have them? Memphidiots may want to look into that.

(03-08-2016 07:20 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-07-2016 11:19 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-07-2016 08:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Nobody knows what The American's exit fee is. (At least nobody outside the league presidents).

The $10M exit fee was for the old league, under the old bylaws. It's probably different now.

The $5M wasn't an exit fee, technically, it was a payment made to settle any damages incurred by not carrying out the contract.

I can't imagine that the new league is operating under the same bylaws, written for a delicately balanced hybrid conference. Likewise, the $10M exit fee was for a coast-to-coast "near-power-conference" in football with a media rights deal worth upwards of $100M per year. None of that still applies. The new exit fee is set by whatever bylaws were adopted since the C7 left. Those bylaws haven't been made public, so we have no idea what the new exit fee is. Could be $10M, could be $5M, could be zero if you give 366 days notice.

Same league. Same bylaws. The AAC is the legal corporate successor to the Big East. The Big East is the new conference.

It's the same league, and the bylaws still held until they were replaced (a process which would have been governed by the old bylaws). But there are a lot of provisions in the old Big East bylaws which relate to the balance of power between "Division I-A Schools" and "Non-IA Schools", clauses about rotation in office between the two groups, etc which are no longer relevant.

I'm pretty sure that 7.05(a) (The Finance Committee shall consist of four members, 2 from football schools and 2 from nonfootball schools) is not in your bylaws anymore.

Never mind the parts of the bylaws that didn't quite mean what they said on paper, because they were superceded by the Pre-Nup. (2 FBS schools required for dissolution?) I"d be really surprised if there hasn't been a wholesale revision and replacement of the old bylaws by a new constitution.

The old Big East, headquartered in Providence was a hybrid league with 16 members. The American Athlietic Conference, headquartered in PRovidence, legal successor to the old Big East, has 11 members, 3 of which were members of the old conference. Writing new bylaws is not a hugely difficult task, and the old set of bylaws makes no sense for your league.

Quote:There is no upside to lowering the exit fee. It won't stop or even interfere with a team going to a P5 and it pretty much throws a complete end to any schools migrating to other G5s.

OK, that's a good point. There are good practical and political reasons to keep the exit fee at $10M. Practically, it's compensation for the losers in the P5 sweepstakes. Politically, who's going to be the school president to suggest lowering it?

Its $10 million. This isnt hard people... Rutgers was a part of the AAC for a year. They left and were required to pay this amount. The Amount went from $5 million to $10 once Navy had signed.

(03-07-2016 08:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Nobody knows what The American's exit fee is. (At least nobody outside the league presidents).

The $10M exit fee was for the old league, under the old bylaws. It's probably different now.

The $5M wasn't an exit fee, technically, it was a payment made to settle any damages incurred by not carrying out the contract.

I can't imagine that the new league is operating under the same bylaws, written for a delicately balanced hybrid conference. Likewise, the $10M exit fee was for a coast-to-coast "near-power-conference" in football with a media rights deal worth upwards of $100M per year. None of that still applies. The new exit fee is set by whatever bylaws were adopted since the C7 left. Those bylaws haven't been made public, so we have no idea what the new exit fee is. Could be $10M, could be $5M, could be zero if you give 366 days notice.

John, the American IS the old league. The Big East is a new entity.

So unless they made a change, it's $10mm with a 27 month time duration.

(03-08-2016 10:54 AM)megadrone Wrote:  John, the American IS the old league. The Big East is a new entity.

So unless they made a change, it's $10mm with a 27 month time duration.

I'm laying 10-1 odds that they've made a change and written a almost completely new set of bylaws. I'd be absolutely shocked if the AAC is operating under the 2011 Big East bylaws. I don't have a source, but it's logical.

Yes, they were in effect during the split. Yes, the AAC is the same corporate structure as the old Big East, same Providence headquarters, same 501-c-3 tax ID number, same bank accounts, etc etc etc.

Click on the link to the 2011 Big East bylaws that were made public in the West Virginia lawsuit. Scroll with one hand, count the parts that need revision or replacement on your other hand now that there is no hybrid and no "Non-IA Members". Then start over when you run out of fingers. (Don't even count the name change.)

So I think it's guaranteed that the bylaws have changed, that's just a housekeeping matter.

Did the exit fee change? PRobably not. $10M isn't going to stop anyone from jumping, but it's at least something. The 27-month requirement was absolutely shredded--NOBODY stayed 27 months. So who knows if they kept that, and/or what they replaced it with.

(03-08-2016 11:16 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 10:54 AM)megadrone Wrote:  John, the American IS the old league. The Big East is a new entity.

So unless they made a change, it's $10mm with a 27 month time duration.

I'm laying 10-1 odds that they've made a change and written a almost completely new set of bylaws. I'd be absolutely shocked if the AAC is operating under the 2011 Big East bylaws. I don't have a source, but it's logical.

Yes, they were in effect during the split. Yes, the AAC is the same corporate structure as the old Big East, same Providence headquarters, same 501-c-3 tax ID number, same bank accounts, etc etc etc.

Click on the link to the 2011 Big East bylaws that were made public in the West Virginia lawsuit. Scroll with one hand, count the parts that need revision or replacement on your other hand now that there is no hybrid and no "Non-IA Members". Then start over when you run out of fingers. (Don't even count the name change.)

So I think it's guaranteed that the bylaws have changed, that's just a housekeeping matter.

Did the exit fee change? PRobably not. $10M isn't going to stop anyone from jumping, but it's at least something. The 27-month requirement was absolutely shredded--NOBODY stayed 27 months. So who knows if they kept that, and/or what they replaced it with.

Does the US change the constitution when a new president comes in? Does a corporation rewrite its entire by-laws when they add a company or spin off a division? Nope. Sure, there is verbiage in the bylaws that no longer applies. So what? There literally hundreds of clauses and subsections in typical contracts that don't ever apply or are not relevant to the situations they govern. Besides, the AAC technically remains a hybrid and those clauses may very well become relevant again should the AAC choose to maximize its value through the use of non-football members in the future.

(03-08-2016 11:29 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:16 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 10:54 AM)megadrone Wrote:  John, the American IS the old league. The Big East is a new entity.

So unless they made a change, it's $10mm with a 27 month time duration.

I'm laying 10-1 odds that they've made a change and written a almost completely new set of bylaws. I'd be absolutely shocked if the AAC is operating under the 2011 Big East bylaws. I don't have a source, but it's logical.

Yes, they were in effect during the split. Yes, the AAC is the same corporate structure as the old Big East, same Providence headquarters, same 501-c-3 tax ID number, same bank accounts, etc etc etc.

Click on the link to the 2011 Big East bylaws that were made public in the West Virginia lawsuit. Scroll with one hand, count the parts that need revision or replacement on your other hand now that there is no hybrid and no "Non-IA Members". Then start over when you run out of fingers. (Don't even count the name change.)

So I think it's guaranteed that the bylaws have changed, that's just a housekeeping matter.

Did the exit fee change? PRobably not. $10M isn't going to stop anyone from jumping, but it's at least something. The 27-month requirement was absolutely shredded--NOBODY stayed 27 months. So who knows if they kept that, and/or what they replaced it with.

Does the US change the constitution when a new president comes in? Does a corporation rewrite its entire by-laws when they add a company or spin off a division? Nope. Sure, there is verbiage in the bylaws that no longer applies. So what? There literally hundreds of clauses and subsections in typical contracts that don't ever apply or are not relevant to the situations they govern. Besides, the AAC technically remains a hybrid and those clauses may very well become relevant again should the AAC choose to maximize its value through the use of non-football members in the future.

So, if you guys do bring in Wichita State, VCU and Dayton, one of them is always Chair or Vice-Chair of the Board of Directors? (5.01.d)

And the non-football schools should have 3/6 votes on the Board Executive Committee? (6.01.a) And 2/4 votes on the Audit Committee? (6.02.b) 3/6 on the Athletic Directors Committee? 2/4 on the Finance Committee?

Really?

I suppose it's possible that the AAC hasn't taken an afternoon or two of their legal counsel's time to revamp the bylaws, trusting that no one will ever go back and sue using the fact that basically everything the AAC has done since the split is non-compliant with the conference bylaws.

But I think it's more likely that they did take care of the fairly routine matter of writing up some ordinary conference bylaws that aren't engineered to create a power balance between football and non-football schools, and a properly constituted meeting of the Board of Directors approved the replacement of the obsolete bylaws with appropriate bylaws.

(03-08-2016 12:14 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:29 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:16 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 10:54 AM)megadrone Wrote:  John, the American IS the old league. The Big East is a new entity.

So unless they made a change, it's $10mm with a 27 month time duration.

I'm laying 10-1 odds that they've made a change and written a almost completely new set of bylaws. I'd be absolutely shocked if the AAC is operating under the 2011 Big East bylaws. I don't have a source, but it's logical.

Yes, they were in effect during the split. Yes, the AAC is the same corporate structure as the old Big East, same Providence headquarters, same 501-c-3 tax ID number, same bank accounts, etc etc etc.

Click on the link to the 2011 Big East bylaws that were made public in the West Virginia lawsuit. Scroll with one hand, count the parts that need revision or replacement on your other hand now that there is no hybrid and no "Non-IA Members". Then start over when you run out of fingers. (Don't even count the name change.)

So I think it's guaranteed that the bylaws have changed, that's just a housekeeping matter.

Did the exit fee change? PRobably not. $10M isn't going to stop anyone from jumping, but it's at least something. The 27-month requirement was absolutely shredded--NOBODY stayed 27 months. So who knows if they kept that, and/or what they replaced it with.

Does the US change the constitution when a new president comes in? Does a corporation rewrite its entire by-laws when they add a company or spin off a division? Nope. Sure, there is verbiage in the bylaws that no longer applies. So what? There literally hundreds of clauses and subsections in typical contracts that don't ever apply or are not relevant to the situations they govern. Besides, the AAC technically remains a hybrid and those clauses may very well become relevant again should the AAC choose to maximize its value through the use of non-football members in the future.

So, if you guys do bring in Wichita State, VCU and Dayton, one of them is always Chair or Vice-Chair of the Board of Directors? (5.01.d)

And the non-football schools should have 3/6 votes on the Board Executive Committee? (6.01.a) And 2/4 votes on the Audit Committee? (6.02.b) 3/6 on the Athletic Directors Committee? 2/4 on the Finance Committee?

Really?

I suppose it's possible that the AAC hasn't taken an afternoon or two of their legal counsel's time to revamp the bylaws, trusting that no one will ever go back and sue using the fact that basically everything the AAC has done since the split is non-compliant with the conference bylaws.

But I think it's more likely that they did take care of the fairly routine matter of writing up some ordinary conference bylaws that aren't engineered to create a power balance between football and non-football schools, and a properly constituted meeting of the Board of Directors approved the replacement of the obsolete bylaws with appropriate bylaws.

lol...ok, they probably do change that stuff if non-football schools join---but lets keep in mind, those bylaws were never changed to reflect the existence of the C7 divorce settlement that governed the entire separation of the C7 (to the point that the documents existence was doubted until someone finally got hold of it). That document overruled everything in the bylaws. So, cleaning up the bylaws doesn't seem to be a big priority.

(03-08-2016 01:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 12:14 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:29 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 11:16 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2016 10:54 AM)megadrone Wrote:  John, the American IS the old league. The Big East is a new entity.

So unless they made a change, it's $10mm with a 27 month time duration.

I'm laying 10-1 odds that they've made a change and written a almost completely new set of bylaws. I'd be absolutely shocked if the AAC is operating under the 2011 Big East bylaws. I don't have a source, but it's logical.

Yes, they were in effect during the split. Yes, the AAC is the same corporate structure as the old Big East, same Providence headquarters, same 501-c-3 tax ID number, same bank accounts, etc etc etc.

Click on the link to the 2011 Big East bylaws that were made public in the West Virginia lawsuit. Scroll with one hand, count the parts that need revision or replacement on your other hand now that there is no hybrid and no "Non-IA Members". Then start over when you run out of fingers. (Don't even count the name change.)

So I think it's guaranteed that the bylaws have changed, that's just a housekeeping matter.

Did the exit fee change? PRobably not. $10M isn't going to stop anyone from jumping, but it's at least something. The 27-month requirement was absolutely shredded--NOBODY stayed 27 months. So who knows if they kept that, and/or what they replaced it with.

Does the US change the constitution when a new president comes in? Does a corporation rewrite its entire by-laws when they add a company or spin off a division? Nope. Sure, there is verbiage in the bylaws that no longer applies. So what? There literally hundreds of clauses and subsections in typical contracts that don't ever apply or are not relevant to the situations they govern. Besides, the AAC technically remains a hybrid and those clauses may very well become relevant again should the AAC choose to maximize its value through the use of non-football members in the future.

So, if you guys do bring in Wichita State, VCU and Dayton, one of them is always Chair or Vice-Chair of the Board of Directors? (5.01.d)

And the non-football schools should have 3/6 votes on the Board Executive Committee? (6.01.a) And 2/4 votes on the Audit Committee? (6.02.b) 3/6 on the Athletic Directors Committee? 2/4 on the Finance Committee?

Really?

I suppose it's possible that the AAC hasn't taken an afternoon or two of their legal counsel's time to revamp the bylaws, trusting that no one will ever go back and sue using the fact that basically everything the AAC has done since the split is non-compliant with the conference bylaws.

But I think it's more likely that they did take care of the fairly routine matter of writing up some ordinary conference bylaws that aren't engineered to create a power balance between football and non-football schools, and a properly constituted meeting of the Board of Directors approved the replacement of the obsolete bylaws with appropriate bylaws.

lol...ok, they probably do change that stuff if non-football schools join---but lets keep in mind, those bylaws were never changed to reflect the existence of the C7 divorce settlement that governed the entire separation of the C7 (to the point that the documents existence was doubted until someone finally got hold of it). That document overruled everything in the bylaws. So, cleaning up the bylaws doesn't seem to be a big priority.

It's not a big priority, but it's also not that hard. You could revise these bylaws to match the current AAC in an afternoon. OR replace them with a revised copy of the old CUSA bylaws, or the MAC's if Temple has a copy. The Big 12's bylaws are online, too. It's law, not rocket surgery. I expect it probably got done in the first league meeting after things calmed down.

I think these bylaws were also negotiated about the same time as the Pre-Nup, in that 2003-05 time period, establishing the balance of power between football and non-football schools, and Notre DAmes' unique place in that structure. The 16 team Big East, designed initially to hold together until both sides could qualify for autobids under the old continuity rules, had much more complicated bylaws than most other conferences.

I don't think the text of the Pre-Nup ever surfaced, just its existence and name. (The "Mutual Commitment Agreement" mentioned in all of the Big East expansion contracts.)

My point is that I don't think it's wise to rely on the Big East bylaws from 2011 as especially reliable today.

My god this thread is still going? Does anybody not read. Do a damn google search for AAC, Rutgers and $10 million exit fee. Its not freaking hard.

The exit fee has been $10 million ever since Navy signed up. Rutgers had to pay it, so we have an example that it is in place.

(03-08-2016 07:55 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  My god this thread is still going? Does anybody not read. Do a damn google search for AAC, Rutgers and $10 million exit fee. Its not freaking hard.

The exit fee has been $10 million ever since Navy signed up. Rutgers had to pay it, so we have an example that it is in place.

Yeah, what he said you maroons!