(02-27-2016 11:24 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:32 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:30 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:27 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:24 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  Our baseball program is in serious trouble. I'm with those who have already come out and said or implied it. This is not a slight against Coach.

lol of course not! Everyone knows in football it's the coaches fault and in baseball it's the players' fault!

There is a big difference between Graham and Bailiff: the former brought us a national championship. For that we are forever indebted to him.

Yes... There is definitely a difference in the accomplishments of the coaches. But let's not act like if the quality of play right now is any better than what we put on the football field. Btw that championship was 13 years ago. What have we done in the last 8 years.

While your point overall has merit, lets not pretend that Rice Football is capable of even coming close to competing with anyone in the top 25, let alone top 50. Not at all.

Because we are clearly competing right now... Different sports bud. There has always been more parity in baseball but right now we aren't even respectable. I'd take Lamar over us currently.

(02-27-2016 11:52 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  We just got run-ruled. At Minute Maid. By TCU.

Wow.

(02-27-2016 11:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:24 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:32 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:30 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:27 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  lol of course not! Everyone knows in football it's the coaches fault and in baseball it's the players' fault!

There is a big difference between Graham and Bailiff: the former brought us a national championship. For that we are forever indebted to him.

Yes... There is definitely a difference in the accomplishments of the coaches. But let's not act like if the quality of play right now is any better than what we put on the football field. Btw that championship was 13 years ago. What have we done in the last 8 years.

While your point overall has merit, lets not pretend that Rice Football is capable of even coming close to competing with anyone in the top 25, let alone top 50. Not at all.

Because we are clearly competing right now... Different sports bud. There has always been more parity in baseball but right now we aren't even respectable. I'd take Lamar over us currently.

To compete football style in Baseball would be to have the game be over in the second inning. Or lose to a top 25 opponent by 30 runs.

We have fallen, yes. We aren't competing well with the top 25, yes. But the gap between where football is and Rice Baseball is still huge. Lets not get carried away here.

(02-28-2016 12:00 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:24 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:32 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:30 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  There is a big difference between Graham and Bailiff: the former brought us a national championship. For that we are forever indebted to him.

Yes... There is definitely a difference in the accomplishments of the coaches. But let's not act like if the quality of play right now is any better than what we put on the football field. Btw that championship was 13 years ago. What have we done in the last 8 years.

While your point overall has merit, lets not pretend that Rice Football is capable of even coming close to competing with anyone in the top 25, let alone top 50. Not at all.

Because we are clearly competing right now... Different sports bud. There has always been more parity in baseball but right now we aren't even respectable. I'd take Lamar over us currently.

To compete football style in Baseball would be to have the game be over in the second inning. Or lose to a top 25 opponent by 30 runs.

We have fallen, yes. We aren't competing well with the top 25, yes. But the gap between where football is and Rice Baseball is still huge. Lets not get carried away here.

No. Not at all. You're letting your anti-bailiff bias get in the way here. Baseball is a sport where the worst teams can sometimes pull off a win against the best teams. That doesn't happen in football. However baseball hasn't even showed up for most of our games this year. We are getting left in the dust by the other programs in Texas. We aren't recruiting as well as the other schools in the state and it shows. Time for some changes. The errors alone are troubling but clearly the bigger issue is something is keeping the top recruits from choosing Rice.

(02-28-2016 12:00 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:24 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:32 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:30 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  There is a big difference between Graham and Bailiff: the former brought us a national championship. For that we are forever indebted to him.

Yes... There is definitely a difference in the accomplishments of the coaches. But let's not act like if the quality of play right now is any better than what we put on the football field. Btw that championship was 13 years ago. What have we done in the last 8 years.

While your point overall has merit, lets not pretend that Rice Football is capable of even coming close to competing with anyone in the top 25, let alone top 50. Not at all.

Because we are clearly competing right now... Different sports bud. There has always been more parity in baseball but right now we aren't even respectable. I'd take Lamar over us currently.

To compete football style in Baseball would be to have the game be over in the second inning. Or lose to a top 25 opponent by 30 runs.

We have fallen, yes. We aren't competing well with the top 25, yes. But the gap between where football is and Rice Baseball is still huge. Lets not get carried away here.

Well, we just got run-ruled by a top 25 team when it was 5-0 in the second, so...yeah, I think we just competed "football style" (to borrow your term) in baseball tonight.

(02-27-2016 11:45 PM)owlatheart Wrote:  But the resources are tied to conference affiliation, and it is a deep hole to climb out of at this point

Cal State Fullerton seems to make it work and they have lost several head coaches.

(02-27-2016 11:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:24 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:32 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:30 PM)Wiessman Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:27 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  lol of course not! Everyone knows in football it's the coaches fault and in baseball it's the players' fault!

There is a big difference between Graham and Bailiff: the former brought us a national championship. For that we are forever indebted to him.

Yes... There is definitely a difference in the accomplishments of the coaches. But let's not act like if the quality of play right now is any better than what we put on the football field. Btw that championship was 13 years ago. What have we done in the last 8 years.

While your point overall has merit, lets not pretend that Rice Football is capable of even coming close to competing with anyone in the top 25, let alone top 50. Not at all.

Because we are clearly competing right now... Different sports bud. There has always been more parity in baseball but right now we aren't even respectable. I'd take Lamar over us currently.

Exactly, Different Rice sports have different relative expectations. This team is probably the worst in the last seven years. This past year's football team was not the worst football team in the last seven years, IMO, unless people feel like our 2009-2011 squads were better than last year's squad. Karlgaard needs to do whatever is needed to fix baseball. Because it is broken, and anyone who wants to claim that things are just fine is deluding him or herself. Alternatively, we can just ignore the evidence and let baseball slide further down.

From what I've heard, Dr K is VERY aware of how important a high profile and competitive Rice baseball program is to Rice athletics

U H looks pretty average too. Hopefully, just a slump but Coach Graham looks his age.

(02-28-2016 12:18 AM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:45 PM)owlatheart Wrote:  But the resources are tied to conference affiliation, and it is a deep hole to climb out of at this point

Cal State Fullerton seems to make it work and they have lost several head coaches.

What conference were we in in 2003?

I know it's early (the season is barely 10% done at this point), but Massey's baseball ratings have Rice currently as the 5th best team in C-USA - #70 overall. FAU is #10, Southern Miss is #12, ODU is #39, and UTSA is #60. Chew on that for a moment. Probably need about 2-3 more weeks for this to shake out - the rankings still haven't internalized current season results, but some trends are not good.

Hopefully, this group can have a basketball-type resurgence in the rankings and performance (though basketball is only at 260 in Massey) than what happened with the football team this year.

(02-28-2016 10:18 AM)gsloth Wrote:  I know it's early (the season is barely 10% done at this point), but Massey's baseball ratings have Rice currently as the 5th best team in C-USA - #70 overall. FAU is #10, Southern Miss is #12, ODU is #39, and UTSA is #60. Chew on that for a moment. Probably need about 2-3 more weeks for this to shake out - the rankings still haven't internalized current season results, but some trends are not good.

Hopefully, this group can have a basketball-type resurgence in the rankings and performance (though basketball is only at 260 in Massey) than what happened with the football team this year.

Rankings within CUSA is totally meaningless until we start playing games within CUSA.

(02-28-2016 10:23 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(02-28-2016 10:18 AM)gsloth Wrote:  I know it's early (the season is barely 10% done at this point), but Massey's baseball ratings have Rice currently as the 5th best team in C-USA - #70 overall. FAU is #10, Southern Miss is #12, ODU is #39, and UTSA is #60. Chew on that for a moment. Probably need about 2-3 more weeks for this to shake out - the rankings still haven't internalized current season results, but some trends are not good.

Hopefully, this group can have a basketball-type resurgence in the rankings and performance (though basketball is only at 260 in Massey) than what happened with the football team this year.

Rankings within CUSA is totally meaningless until we start playing games within CUSA.

I would normally agree - with the caveat is that a few teams are already posting results that are impressing the ratings. As I noted, give it a few more weeks for some more results to be added to the equation - but this is not a normal position for Rice's baseball team.

(02-28-2016 12:09 AM)baker-13 Wrote:  

(02-28-2016 12:00 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:54 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 11:24 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(02-27-2016 10:32 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  Yes... There is definitely a difference in the accomplishments of the coaches. But let's not act like if the quality of play right now is any better than what we put on the football field. Btw that championship was 13 years ago. What have we done in the last 8 years.

While your point overall has merit, lets not pretend that Rice Football is capable of even coming close to competing with anyone in the top 25, let alone top 50. Not at all.

Because we are clearly competing right now... Different sports bud. There has always been more parity in baseball but right now we aren't even respectable. I'd take Lamar over us currently.

To compete football style in Baseball would be to have the game be over in the second inning. Or lose to a top 25 opponent by 30 runs.

We have fallen, yes. We aren't competing well with the top 25, yes. But the gap between where football is and Rice Baseball is still huge. Lets not get carried away here.

Well, we just got run-ruled by a top 25 team when it was 5-0 in the second, so...yeah, I think we just competed "football style" (to borrow your term) in baseball tonight.

True, and it is concerning. Especially the errors, since repeat errors and mistakes is definitely a sign of a coaching issue.

My point was that Karlgaard has stated top 25 as the goal. With the exception of this year, so far, Baseball has met that goal. Football hasn't even come close. So if we are torch and pitchforking, the effort is better spent on Football IMO. Thats all.

I don't believe that any rational person thinks that it is even remotely possible for Rice to come close to "Top 25" in football or basketball. As Antarius stated, we are there in baseball. Unlike what Antarius wrote, however, I think that it would be foolish to chase after unlikely goals in football (or basketball). Being competitive (past the point of embarrassment) in those sports is a worthy and reachable possibility.

(02-28-2016 03:46 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I don't believe that any rational person thinks that it is even remotely possible for Rice to come close to "Top 25" in football or basketball. As Antarius stated, we are there in baseball. Unlike what Antarius wrote, however, I think that it would be foolish to chase after unlikely goals in football (or basketball). Being competitive (past the point of embarrassment) in those sports is a worthy and reachable possibility.

If so, then it would be money and effort better spent elsewhere?

to me, the irrational part is competing without the drive or expectation that we can and will be the best.

A few thoughts:
1. It's really early and Rice baseball teams have never been fast starters.
2. We're not as good as we once were...but we can be as good once as we ever were.
3. We're in a really really bad conference so there's no reason to sweat the streaks yet.

Last...no one should be surprised by this. It's been coming for a few years now despite the denial. Hopefully the delusions of grandeur and quest for excuses have now past and the team and staff can focus back in on what Rice baseball has always been best at...winning games.

(02-28-2016 03:46 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  I don't believe that any rational person thinks that it is even remotely possible for Rice to come close to "Top 25" in football or basketball. As Antarius stated, we are there in baseball. Unlike what Antarius wrote, however, I think that it would be foolish to chase after unlikely goals in football (or basketball). Being competitive (past the point of embarrassment) in those sports is a worthy and reachable possibility.

I don't believe that at all. It takes 3 really good players and several role players to be in the top 25. The talent will be on the roster soon for us to win conference and that's step 1.

I don't agree with that at all. Just look at the teams who have made the Final Four the past few seasons - VCU, Butler, Wichita State, etc. It's easier than ever to do that in basketball these days because so many kids are one and done. Hell, we're probably one or two legitimate big guys away from being a Final Four contender in two or three seasons, with the current roster and perhaps some of the guys coming in if they live up to their billing.

Football is impossible, that I agree with.

Nothing is impossible