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(02-25-2016 01:26 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:07 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 10:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 10:52 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Another example of how metrics are misleading. Nobody would argue that this season is right on par for Bacote. While shooting percentages may be up, he never attempts anything except a layup, on which he usually gets fouled, or a wide open three pointer. He has become more reluctant to try to create shots and all you have to do is look at him to know his confidence/passion has been destroyed this season.

Your eyes deceive you. I know, thats the case with most fans as we get wrapped up in the games.

Bacote has only attempted 30% of his shots at the rim. 34% jumpers, 36% 3 pointers. (getting fouled on a layup attempt would be a good thing).

Hes shooting 56% at the rim, 40% on jumpers, and 33% on threes.

Last year he attempte 31% at the rim, 24% on jumpers, and 45% 3s. He shot 54% at the rim, 28% on jumpers, and 32% on 3 pointers.

I am not quit sure if you are trying to convince us that Bacote is an effective player or not. Seems that you are dead set on changing everyone's mind about him. Sorry man, nobody is taking you up on that. I appreciate him being here for 4 years and representing the program the way he has, but let's get real. He is not and has not been the player you are making him out to be.

Im not attempting to "change" anyones mind. Bacote is a good player and if people don't want to believe it, that is their right. Certainly, he's struggled as the offense has turned to give the ball to Trey in isolation because he's not a spot up shooter, but more of an isolation player himself.

My initial point was to dispute the awful reasoning that Snowden = or > than Bacote, which as shown, is an embarrassingly poor opinion. Then someone asked about how his stats relate to his previous seasons.

The way I view him....

He is nonexistent when his team needs him the most.

He really hasn't been given a chance. His minutes have gone from 25-30 per game to under 20 the last 2 games. At the end of non conference into the first few games of the conference season, he was averaging 25-30 mins per game and putting up 15-20 points per game. Then, all of a sudden from the first Marshall game on, Jones has ignored him. I think the other guy might be right that Jones just wants the ball in Trey's hands so Bacote became an after thought.

(02-25-2016 01:47 PM)mac Wrote:  ^^^^

Wouldn't mind seeing a change in the starting line-up. Start Bacote and runs some plays for him right off the bat. More then one. And leave him in the game for 6, 7,8 minutes if he's not in foul trouble. It is obvious, at least to me, that the poor guy has sort of checked out right at the end of his career. What do we have to lose trying it this way. We have been in a funk since we had that whatever it was, four game winning streak stopped. Would love to see this kid get his confidence up, he is still on the team and could be very valuable to any type of run we might make, if we can. The way it is now, the offense is just not there, even if Trey goes for 30. Love to see it. But I'm no coach, just a guy up in section whatever cheering like always no matter.

I 100% agree with this. The 6th man experiment worked for a few games, but it is not working at all now. Time for another shake up. I also agree running plays to get him (and Jordan) going early in games would be VERY helpful.

(02-25-2016 02:26 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 01:47 PM)mac Wrote:  ^^^^

Wouldn't mind seeing a change in the starting line-up. Start Bacote and runs some plays for him right off the bat. More then one. And leave him in the game for 6, 7,8 minutes if he's not in foul trouble. It is obvious, at least to me, that the poor guy has sort of checked out right at the end of his career. What do we have to lose trying it this way. We have been in a funk since we had that whatever it was, four game winning streak stopped. Would love to see this kid get his confidence up, he is still on the team and could be very valuable to any type of run we might make, if we can. The way it is now, the offense is just not there, even if Trey goes for 30. Love to see it. But I'm no coach, just a guy up in section whatever cheering like always no matter.

I 100% agree with this. The 6th man experiment worked for a few games, but it is not working at all now. Time for another shake up. I also agree running plays to get him (and Jordan) going early in games would be VERY helpful.

I could make the case that this should be the main focus of the last few games, win or lose. We are unlikely to get a first round bye, so really these games don't matter much in terms of standings.

We know what Trey and Brandon can give us. We know what Baker and Taylor can't. We need to get Bacote going before Birmingham or it will be a short conference tournament for us.

(02-25-2016 01:47 PM)mac Wrote:  ^^^^

Wouldn't mind seeing a change in the starting line-up. Start Bacote and runs some plays for him right off the bat. More then one. And leave him in the game for 6, 7,8 minutes if he's not in foul trouble. It is obvious, at least to me, that the poor guy has sort of checked out right at the end of his career. What do we have to lose trying it this way. We have been in a funk since we had that whatever it was, four game winning streak stopped. Would love to see this kid get his confidence up, he is still on the team and could be very valuable to any type of run we might make, if we can. The way it is now, the offense is just not there, even if Trey goes for 30. Love to see it. But I'm no coach, just a guy up in section whatever cheering like always no matter.

Outlook is good.

(02-25-2016 12:28 PM)bigblueodu Wrote:  Whoever created this thread should get poster of the year....

Ha. Also find it amusing that this thread was started because of all the off-topic Snowden discussion on another thread and now this thread has turned in a Bacote discussion.

How about that new stadium? Waterfront amirite?

Giles is a good odu fan but he is clueless.

Snowden will put up much better stats the next two years than bacote did in his junior and senior years.

Bacote regressed offensively under jones.

Snowden will most likely IMPROVE on a better team.

Time will tell but I'm willing to bet Snowden's senior season will be better than bacotes.

You can put your money where your mouth is.

Of course if you are going to use a garbage "advanced metric" that has no real basis in reality to prove that Snowden sucks, you can save it.

Only a fool argues about useless metrics when examine college bball players. Especially a metric that could potentially value a bench player who plays 2 minutes a game as more valuable than a starter with better percentages and averages at every single facet of the game.

(02-25-2016 12:58 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:07 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 10:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 10:52 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Another example of how metrics are misleading. Nobody would argue that this season is right on par for Bacote. While shooting percentages may be up, he never attempts anything except a layup, on which he usually gets fouled, or a wide open three pointer. He has become more reluctant to try to create shots and all you have to do is look at him to know his confidence/passion has been destroyed this season.

Your eyes deceive you. I know, thats the case with most fans as we get wrapped up in the games.

Bacote has only attempted 30% of his shots at the rim. 34% jumpers, 36% 3 pointers. (getting fouled on a layup attempt would be a good thing).

Hes shooting 56% at the rim, 40% on jumpers, and 33% on threes.

Last year he attempte 31% at the rim, 24% on jumpers, and 45% 3s. He shot 54% at the rim, 28% on jumpers, and 32% on 3 pointers.

I am not quit sure if you are trying to convince us that Bacote is an effective player or not. Seems that you are dead set on changing everyone's mind about him. Sorry man, nobody is taking you up on that. I appreciate him being here for 4 years and representing the program the way he has, but let's get real. He is not and has not been the player you are making him out to be.

Im not attempting to "change" anyones mind. Bacote is a good player and if people don't want to believe it, that is their right. Certainly, he's struggled as the offense has turned to give the ball to Trey in isolation because he's not a spot up shooter, but more of an isolation player himself.

My initial point was to dispute the awful reasoning that Snowden = or > than Bacote, which as shown, is an embarrassingly poor opinion. Then someone asked about how his stats relate to his previous seasons.

Says the guy who argued biberaj is better than Snowden.

I suppose Jordan baker is better too right?

Bacote is slow guys, and if you think it's JJs fault he can't finish at the basket or get past his man then I feel sorry for u. And he's been struggling from 3. He's a good ball handler who's crafty enough to get his own shot every once in a while. He's got a nice stroke though, let's hope he can get it going. He's not blowing by you and he's not jumping over you. His sophomore and senior seasons were definitely his best.. Both playing for JJ. Just admit he's not All Conference like some of you think he should be. You've built him up in your head, he's s pretty good cusa player... That's it. And Talleys athleticism and skill is ridiculous compared to Snowden. Snowden is a forward, not sure why he's being compared to Bacote in the first place. Get over it.

Honestly, Isaiah hunter. That cat could light u up from deep, then blow by you and dunk on you. The two couldn't be more different. Love Bacote, but seriously..

Will someone answer a question for me? Why the bromance for Ramone Snowden? He has never been a Monarch and never will be. He is not a dominant player at this level, nor was he projected to be. He is not a program changing caliber player. So why do folks spend so many posts and threads on him? I just want to understand the fascination.

(02-26-2016 01:43 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Giles is a good odu fan but he is clueless.

Snowden will put up much better stats the next two years than bacote did in his junior and senior years.

Bacote regressed offensively under jones.

Snowden will most likely IMPROVE on a better team.

Time will tell but I'm willing to bet Snowden's senior season will be better than bacotes.

You can put your money where your mouth is.

Of course if you are going to use a garbage "advanced metric" that has no real basis in reality to prove that Snowden sucks, you can save it.

Only a fool argues about useless metrics when examine college bball players. Especially a metric that could potentially value a bench player who plays 2 minutes a game as more valuable than a starter with better percentages and averages at every single facet of the game.

There is no point in betting because the way you want to judge them is meaningless. If he shoots 40 times per game next year and scores 15 per game, you are going to claim he's better.

You can continue to be ignorant on the use of advanced metrics, but it just makes you look bad. Turnover rate, shooting percentage, how well the team plays with different players on the court, etc. are meaningful whether you like it or not.

Unless I missed it, I don't remember saying Bibaraj was better than Snowden. I believe what I said what "LOL, you said he's basically Stith; he closer to Biberaj than he is to Stith."

Bacote has not regressed and I spent a considerable amount of text explaining it.

Biberaj has played 500 minutes. If he played 2 minutes per game, he would have played 50 minutes.

I hope Snowden does improve; for goodness sake he needs to, he's been awful his freshman and soph seasons. He needs to improve defensively, and figure out what he's going to do on offense. You can't be a spot up 3 point shooter and not actually be a good shooter (34%).

He's not a star, was never going to be a star, what's the obsession? Do we have his best friend and girlfriend posting on these boards? ODU has a better version of Snowden coming in next year in Haynes, maybe you all could get excited about that? Talley is better than Snowden right now as a RS Freshman maybe get excited about that? BJ Stith will be better than Snowden ever would have been, maybe we could talk about him some? ODU finally signed Kah after recruiting him for seemingly 12 years...discuss? This Snowden crap is the DUMBEST discussion I've read in all my years on these message boards....AND I'M INCLUDING THE CAAZONE YEARS.

(02-26-2016 10:37 AM)EverydayInVA Wrote:  He's not a star, was never going to be a star, what's the obsession? Do we have his best friend and girlfriend posting on these boards? ODU has a better version of Snowden coming in next year in Haynes, maybe you all could get excited about that? Talley is better than Snowden right now as a RS Freshman maybe get excited about that? BJ Stith will be better than Snowden ever would have been, maybe we could talk about him some? ODU finally signed Kah after recruiting him for seemingly 12 years...discuss? This Snowden crap is the DUMBEST discussion I've read in all my years on these message boards....AND I'M INCLUDING THE CAAZONE YEARS.

Star or not, he'd at least be a significant role player on this team. The last high school student we brought in that became a star was Kent Bazemore. Saying he is not a star is a poor argument. Neither are any freshmen we have brought in in the last 8 years. Hopefully Talley, Caver, or Green can become that.

Well considering what some of the posters around here do to "role players" who cares? One more player for people to complain about?

AND Anyone making this into an ODU thing is just passing the buck, if the kid did the work and got the grades he'd be at ODU, maybe if he put in the work and didn't peak in 8th grade, he'd be at ODU, or even a power 5 team.

(02-26-2016 10:37 AM)EverydayInVA Wrote:  He's not a star, was never going to be a star, what's the obsession? Do we have his best friend and girlfriend posting on these boards? ODU has a better version of Snowden coming in next year in Haynes, maybe you all could get excited about that? Talley is better than Snowden right now as a RS Freshman maybe get excited about that? BJ Stith will be better than Snowden ever would have been, maybe we could talk about him some? ODU finally signed Kah after recruiting him for seemingly 12 years...discuss? This Snowden crap is the DUMBEST discussion I've read in all my years on these message boards....AND I'M INCLUDING THE CAAZONE YEARS.

The obsession is that fans want something to complain about. Having a local kid get rejected by the school he wanted to play for is fuel for those people. It's simple as that. Even if the kid has played 2 years and done nothing.

(02-26-2016 10:53 AM)EverydayInVA Wrote:  Well considering what some of the posters around here do to "role players" who cares? One more player for people to complain about?

AND Anyone making this into an ODU thing is just passing the buck, if the kid did the work and got the grades he'd be at ODU, maybe if he put in the work and didn't peak in 8th grade, he'd be at ODU, or even a power 5 team.

Wait, I thought he just wasn't good enough to honor our offer. Is it that or was it the grades?

(02-26-2016 10:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-26-2016 10:53 AM)EverydayInVA Wrote:  Well considering what some of the posters around here do to "role players" who cares? One more player for people to complain about?

AND Anyone making this into an ODU thing is just passing the buck, if the kid did the work and got the grades he'd be at ODU, maybe if he put in the work and didn't peak in 8th grade, he'd be at ODU, or even a power 5 team.

Wait, I thought he just wasn't good enough to honor our offer. Is it that or was it the grades?

Test scores. Scholarship was contingent on him meeting certain academic marks. In the article (from three years ago) ODU said he didn't, his high school or AAU coach (not Snowden) said he did. Easiest way for this to have been solved would have been if Snowden had posted his test scores. Instead no one (outside of those at ODU and snowden's camp) know if he had the test scores or not

(02-26-2016 09:28 AM)84Monarch Wrote:  Will someone answer a question for me? Why the bromance for Ramone Snowden? He has never been a Monarch and never will be. He is not a dominant player at this level, nor was he projected to be. He is not a program changing caliber player. So why do folks spend so many posts and threads on him? I just want to understand the fascination.

I think there are really only two people who care one way or the other about him. He is more just a point of argument for and against JJ.

I love these partisan debates!

You are stupid! You're an Idiot, and a moron. Dumbest, the dumbest people ever....

Donald Trump