I know it was cheaper for the city to build a new gym than to renovate it, and I know that it was lacking the modern amenities of today's NBA arenas (i.e. Like FedEx has) and in general disrepair. However, it was uniquely cool. Fortunately, countless schools have luxurious gyms. Those are a dime a dozen. Unfortunately, shockingly few schools play in unique venues. IMO, that short coming takes away from the fan experience as a whole. Memphis could have been something special. The city, state, university, and NBA/Grizzlies should have ponied up.

(02-18-2016 06:32 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I know it was cheaper for the city to build a new gym than to renovate it, and I know that it was lacking the modern amenities of today's NBA arenas (i.e. Like FedEx has) and in general disrepair. However, it was uniquely cool. Fortunately, countless schools have luxurious gyms. Those are a dime a dozen. Unfortunately, shockingly few schools play in unique venues. IMO, that short coming takes away from the fan experience as a whole. Memphis could have been something special. The city, state, university, and NBA/Grizzlies should have ponied up.

Tulane has a unique venue. One of the oldest active D1 gyms in the country as well. You couldn't tell by the vitrol from some about on it on here.

People like old, quaint and unique in the abstract, but in practice its a different matter. Astrodome, Yankee Stadium, Shea, Candlestick, etc etc etc

(02-18-2016 06:56 PM)Enviro5609 Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 06:32 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I know it was cheaper for the city to build a new gym than to renovate it, and I know that it was lacking the modern amenities of today's NBA arenas (i.e. Like FedEx has) and in general disrepair. However, it was uniquely cool. Fortunately, countless schools have luxurious gyms. Those are a dime a dozen. Unfortunately, shockingly few schools play in unique venues. IMO, that short coming takes away from the fan experience as a whole. Memphis could have been something special. The city, state, university, and NBA/Grizzlies should have ponied up.

Tulane has a unique venue. One of the oldest active D1 gyms in the country as well. You couldn't tell by the vitrol from some about on it on here.

People like old, quaint and unique in the abstract, but in practice its a different matter. Astrodome, Yankee Stadium, Shea, Candlestick, etc etc etc

Fair point, but I could list off a bunch of stadiums/fields/gymnasiums/etc. like Fenway and Cameron Indoor, which, age and uniqueness aside, are terrible.

Also, FWIW, most people that I know prefer the older Yankee Stadium.

FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

(02-18-2016 08:37 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

What's special about it?

And I don't mean to imply that FedEx is causing the attendance problem.

(02-18-2016 09:33 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:37 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

What's special about it?

And I don't mean to imply that FedEx is causing the attendance problem.

It's a top-notch pro-sports facility. Much like UCONN fans, Memphis fans treat their home college basketball team like a pro team. While it doesn't have the history of a Carrier Dome/Gampel Pavilion, it makes up for that in amenities...not to mention there isn't a bad seat in the house.

(02-18-2016 09:33 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:37 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

What's special about it?

And I don't mean to imply that FedEx is causing the attendance problem.

Then exactly what are you implying...or saying? I'm not being a smart&&&, but you started this discussion, not me. You're the one that said Memphis should have done something different. If you want to withdraw your comment, I'm fine with that.

I've sat through games in both facilities and one is 100% better than the other plus the Beale St location blows away the surrounding pinch district of the Pyramid. I can't imagine anyone who has been to both facilities voting to play Tiger games in the Phramid. The catfish have nice home among the rods, reels, and shotgun shells.

oldtiger is on point here. The only problem with Memphis basketball is their Head Coach. Once that is resolved, Memphis will be back to their usual self, in their quality venue, playing quality Memphis basketball.

(02-18-2016 09:42 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 09:33 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:37 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

What's special about it?

And I don't mean to imply that FedEx is causing the attendance problem.

It's a top-notch pro-sports facility. Much like UCONN fans, Memphis fans treat their home college basketball team like a pro team. While it doesn't have the history of a Carrier Dome/Gampel Pavilion, it makes up for that in amenities...not to mention there isn't a bad seat in the house.

Gampel Pavilion?

(02-18-2016 10:31 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  oldtiger is on point here. The only problem with Memphis basketball is their Head Coach. Once that is resolved, Memphis will be back to their usual self, in their quality venue, playing quality Memphis basketball.

I saw Cuse play Memphis in the FEF it was a truly nice facility...great amenities. Really nice location in relation to Beale St.

(02-18-2016 10:43 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 10:31 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  oldtiger is on point here. The only problem with Memphis basketball is their Head Coach. Once that is resolved, Memphis will be back to their usual self, in their quality venue, playing quality Memphis basketball.

I saw Cuse play Memphis in the FEF it was a truly nice facility...great amenities. Really nice location in relation to Beale St.

Watching a game in the upper level of the Pyramid was a painful experience for anyone that weighed over 160lbs. The rows and seats were pitched at such an angle that a guy above us lost his balance and rolled over the heads and shoulders of about 15 rows before he stopped.........true story. The pyramid just wasn't a good spectator facility.

We've got examples of how to and how not to build a facility within +/-2 miles of each other.

Thank you very much for the kind words regarding the Forum. Greatly appreciated.

Just the location of FedEx Forum alone makes it a better venue than the Pyramid. You have like 30+ bars and restaurants within a reasonable walking distance from FEF. Back at the Pyramid, you had T.J. Mulligan's, the North End, and High Point Pinch. That was pretty much it.

As OT just said. the Pyramid is a striking building on the outside, but was a horrible design on the inside, for a basketball arena. They screwed up something with the design or the construction (I forget which), which caused the steep angles that were downright dangerous.

My parents had season tickets from 1963 through the first year of the Pyramid (1991-2?). They gave them up, b/c the place was too dangerous for them in the upper deck.

From Wikipedia:

On the Pyramid's opening night, the arena floor flooded because of inadequate drainage pumps, and the entire arena began to flood causing stage hands to sandbag the entire perimeter to preserve the electrical runs under the stage. The arena was also assumed to be NBA ready; however, when the Memphis Grizzlies came to town, it was discovered that the cost of upgrading to NBA standards made it more practical to build an arena tailored specifically for the NBA. As a result, the $250 million FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, was built and opened in 2004.

The City of Memphis contract with the Memphis Grizzlies forbade the use of The Pyramid without the team's approval, and as a result, it went dark. A committee headed by Memphis businessman Scott Ledbetter studied possible uses of the arena in 2005, and considered such uses as converting the arena into a casino, an aquarium, a shopping mall, or an indoor theme park.[9] In November 2006, Congressman-Elect Steve Cohen (D-Tennessee) suggested that he would attempt to open a "Mid-American branch" of the Smithsonian Institution in the building. However, these plans were never realized. In the end, the committee on the building's future recommended that it be used for "destination retail" which would create more jobs and new tax revenues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Pyramid

(02-18-2016 10:25 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 09:33 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:37 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

What's special about it?

And I don't mean to imply that FedEx is causing the attendance problem.

Then exactly what are you implying...or saying? I'm not being a smart&&&, but you started this discussion, not me. You're the one that said Memphis should have done something different. If you want to withdraw your comment, I'm fine with that.

I've sat through games in both facilities and one is 100% better than the other plus the Beale St location blows away the surrounding pinch district of the Pyramid. I can't imagine anyone who has been to both facilities voting to play Tiger games in the Phramid. The catfish have nice home among the rods, reels, and shotgun shells.

I'm implying that the pyramid had the potential to be special. FedEx has the potential to be a modern gymnasium, no different any other upscale modern facility. Admittedly, I haven't been to a game in either FedEx or the old Pyramid, but what's the difference between UL's Yum! Center, UH's soon-to-be new gym, and FedEx? That was an honest question, but I'm guessing not much. They're all very modern upscale gyms. Don't get me wrong, +90% of schools are envious, but at the end of the day, what separates them from each other? All other factors but gym aside, why would a kid turn down UL and UH to play in FedEx (or the other way around)?

However, if the Pyramid was renovated to have the same amenities, it would be markedly different from the rest. IMHO, that makes it an asset.

Some posters (not just you) seem to be really defensive (see comments about the coach, attendance, UConn's gym, and amenities at FedEx). I'm not saying FedEx is bad, nor am I saying the Memphis is bad in any way. FedEx is an upscale facility (probably one of the best) and Memphis has a very strong program. My point isn't that you're bad in any area. It's just that you missed a chance to be even better. IMHO, you could be arguably *the* best.

(02-19-2016 12:15 AM)TripleA Wrote:  As OT just said. the Pyramid is a striking building on the outside, but was a horrible design on the inside, for a basketball arena. They screwed up something with the design or the construction (I forget which), which caused the steep angles that were downright dangerous.

My parents had season tickets from 1963 through the first year of the Pyramid (1991-2?). They gave them up, b/c the place was too dangerous for them in the upper deck.

From Wikipedia:

On the Pyramid's opening night, the arena floor flooded because of inadequate drainage pumps, and the entire arena began to flood causing stage hands to sandbag the entire perimeter to preserve the electrical runs under the stage. The arena was also assumed to be NBA ready; however, when the Memphis Grizzlies came to town, it was discovered that the cost of upgrading to NBA standards made it more practical to build an arena tailored specifically for the NBA. As a result, the $250 million FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, was built and opened in 2004.

The City of Memphis contract with the Memphis Grizzlies forbade the use of The Pyramid without the team's approval, and as a result, it went dark. A committee headed by Memphis businessman Scott Ledbetter studied possible uses of the arena in 2005, and considered such uses as converting the arena into a casino, an aquarium, a shopping mall, or an indoor theme park.[9] In November 2006, Congressman-Elect Steve Cohen (D-Tennessee) suggested that he would attempt to open a "Mid-American branch" of the Smithsonian Institution in the building. However, these plans were never realized. In the end, the committee on the building's future recommended that it be used for "destination retail" which would create more jobs and new tax revenues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Pyramid

Right. That's why I said they should have renovated it.

(02-18-2016 09:42 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 09:33 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:37 PM)oldtiger Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 08:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  FEF is an excellent facility. I attended many Tigers games there when I lived in Midtown. Great relationship between the Grizzlies and Tigers. All will be good again once Memphis moves on from Pastner.

Right. The Tigers have a performance problem, not an arena problem.

What's special about it?

And I don't mean to imply that FedEx is causing the attendance problem.

It's a top-notch pro-sports facility. Much like UCONN fans, Memphis fans treat their home college basketball team like a pro team. While it doesn't have the history of a Carrier Dome/Gampel Pavilion, it makes up for that in amenities...not to mention there isn't a bad seat in the house.

*Anyone* can build a stadium with amenities. Not anyone can build a landmark and have it come off as genuine. Memphis can. That differentiation is potential value.

(02-19-2016 01:26 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 12:15 AM)TripleA Wrote:  As OT just said. the Pyramid is a striking building on the outside, but was a horrible design on the inside, for a basketball arena. They screwed up something with the design or the construction (I forget which), which caused the steep angles that were downright dangerous.

My parents had season tickets from 1963 through the first year of the Pyramid (1991-2?). They gave them up, b/c the place was too dangerous for them in the upper deck.

From Wikipedia:

On the Pyramid's opening night, the arena floor flooded because of inadequate drainage pumps, and the entire arena began to flood causing stage hands to sandbag the entire perimeter to preserve the electrical runs under the stage. The arena was also assumed to be NBA ready; however, when the Memphis Grizzlies came to town, it was discovered that the cost of upgrading to NBA standards made it more practical to build an arena tailored specifically for the NBA. As a result, the $250 million FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, was built and opened in 2004.

The City of Memphis contract with the Memphis Grizzlies forbade the use of The Pyramid without the team's approval, and as a result, it went dark. A committee headed by Memphis businessman Scott Ledbetter studied possible uses of the arena in 2005, and considered such uses as converting the arena into a casino, an aquarium, a shopping mall, or an indoor theme park.[9] In November 2006, Congressman-Elect Steve Cohen (D-Tennessee) suggested that he would attempt to open a "Mid-American branch" of the Smithsonian Institution in the building. However, these plans were never realized. In the end, the committee on the building's future recommended that it be used for "destination retail" which would create more jobs and new tax revenues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Pyramid

Right. That's why I said they should have renovated it.

You just don't get it. As you learned, that building was so screwed up, it would have cost more to renovate it as a BB arena than it did to build a brand new state-of-the-art arena. No city in its right mind would do that.

And now the building is doing quite well as the premiere Bass Pro Shop, with a Disneyland interior, a 100-room upscale hotel, bowling alley, several restaurants, observation deck overlooking the Mississippi River, two lagoons, etc.

It is a tourist destination, having drawn over 2 million visitors in its first 8 months. It is also used as a recruiting tool for the University of Memphis. While the Tigers play in one of the best NBA arenas in the country.

https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/20...pril/print

http://www.memphisflyer.com/NewsBlog/arc...d-visitors

Win-win. The building was saved, and has become a huge economic engine for the city, and an asset for the University of Memphis. Meanwhile, we play on Beale Street, as opposed to sitting in an industrial area, far from restaurants and night life.

(02-19-2016 01:34 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 01:26 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 12:15 AM)TripleA Wrote:  As OT just said. the Pyramid is a striking building on the outside, but was a horrible design on the inside, for a basketball arena. They screwed up something with the design or the construction (I forget which), which caused the steep angles that were downright dangerous.

My parents had season tickets from 1963 through the first year of the Pyramid (1991-2?). They gave them up, b/c the place was too dangerous for them in the upper deck.

From Wikipedia:

On the Pyramid's opening night, the arena floor flooded because of inadequate drainage pumps, and the entire arena began to flood causing stage hands to sandbag the entire perimeter to preserve the electrical runs under the stage. The arena was also assumed to be NBA ready; however, when the Memphis Grizzlies came to town, it was discovered that the cost of upgrading to NBA standards made it more practical to build an arena tailored specifically for the NBA. As a result, the $250 million FedExForum, home of the Memphis Grizzlies, was built and opened in 2004.

The City of Memphis contract with the Memphis Grizzlies forbade the use of The Pyramid without the team's approval, and as a result, it went dark. A committee headed by Memphis businessman Scott Ledbetter studied possible uses of the arena in 2005, and considered such uses as converting the arena into a casino, an aquarium, a shopping mall, or an indoor theme park.[9] In November 2006, Congressman-Elect Steve Cohen (D-Tennessee) suggested that he would attempt to open a "Mid-American branch" of the Smithsonian Institution in the building. However, these plans were never realized. In the end, the committee on the building's future recommended that it be used for "destination retail" which would create more jobs and new tax revenues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Pyramid

Right. That's why I said they should have renovated it.

You just don't get it. As you learned, that building was so screwed up, it would have cost more to renovate it as a BB arena than it did to build a brand new state-of-the-art arena. No city in its right mind would do that.

And now the building is doing quite well as the premiere Bass Pro Shop, with a Disneyland interior, a 100-room upscale hotel, bowling alley, several restaurants, observation deck overlooking the Mississippi River, two lagoons, etc.

It is a tourist destination, having drawn over 2 million visitors in its first 8 months. It is also used as a recruiting tool for the University of Memphis. While the Tigers play in one of the best NBA arenas in the country.

https://www.memphisdailynews.com/news/20...pril/print

http://www.memphisflyer.com/NewsBlog/arc...d-visitors

Win-win. The building was saved, and has become a huge economic engine for the city, and an asset for the University of Memphis. Meanwhile, we play on Beale Street, as opposed to sitting in an industrial area, far from restaurants and night life.

Bold: did you read the OP?
Underlined: pick a landmark. There was a cheaper way to build it and/or get the message across. Sometimes not going cheap is worth it.
Other: it's astonishing how many people are bent on telling me FedEx has nice amenities. I get that. I never said differently. In fact, I called FedEx "luxurious" in my OP. However, how is it different from the next city who feels like building s new gym (I.e. Houston) or the last one (I.e. Louisville)? Great programs are almost never great because they have the best facilities. They're great because they have a unique and attractive value proposition. You turned one of the unique aspects of Memphis' program into a freaking Bass Pro Shop. If you can't see why that was a bad idea, then you're missing"it."

And to clarify, there are other things about your program that add value and are unique. I'm not predicting your doom. You won't fall off and FedEx will work just fine. My only point is that IMHO you blew s chance to be even better - unless the design really was SO bad that it literally couldn't have been saved with a renovation, short of materially changing the outside.

(02-18-2016 06:32 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I know it was cheaper for the city to build a new gym than to renovate it, and I know that it was lacking the modern amenities of today's NBA arenas (i.e. Like FedEx has) and in general disrepair. However, it was uniquely cool. Fortunately, countless schools have luxurious gyms. Those are a dime a dozen. Unfortunately, shockingly few schools play in unique venues. IMO, that short coming takes away from the fan experience as a whole. Memphis could have been something special. The city, state, university, and NBA/Grizzlies should have ponied up.

Remember, the only reason why the Grizzlies chose Memphis over others was because it offered them to build brand new with the best/most valuable contract, which became the FEDEX Forum...as the Pyramid, while unique, was a stark building that lacked most revenue generating amenities.

The City basically gave the Grizzlies everything they wanted with the FORUM, plus restricting events at the Pyramid...which is why it basically closed to hosting sports/concerts just 2-3 years after the Forum was opened.

As a few mentioned, development/entertainment/retail never really came as promised (like with many stadium/arena projects of the 70's/80s/early 90's) when the Pyramid was built on the North End of Downtown...but the FEDEX Forum might have the best location of ANY Arena in the country...on the steps off Beale Street...with scores of restaurants/bars/hotels right on their front door step.

Bottom line...with the City already owning the "closed" Coliseum, there was no way the City could survive with 3 main arenas...hence why the Pyramid is now a Bass Pro Shop.