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Governors and realignment
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Erictelevision Offline
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Governors and realignment
Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.
02-18-2016 03:46 PM
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 03:46 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.

Not often, but it happens. VA Governor went to bat for V-Tech to the ACC (was originally supposed to be Cuse with BC and Miami), and Orin Hatch (Senator, admittedly) got engaged in conference shenanigans until Utah got invited to the Pac-12. And in Texas, lord knows what happens there. We do know the Governor of Texas set about - and did- destroying SMU once-upon-a-time.
02-18-2016 03:49 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 03:49 PM)uconnwhaler Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:46 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.

Not often, but it happens. VA Governor went to bat for V-Tech to the ACC (was originally supposed to be Cuse with BC and Miami), and Orin Hatch (Senator, admittedly) got engaged in conference shenanigans until Utah got invited to the Pac-12. And in Texas, lord knows what happens there. We do know the Governor of Texas set about - and did- destroying SMU once-upon-a-time.

Yea, the story here is that Baylor owes its P5 life to Governor Ann Richards.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2016 04:01 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-18-2016 03:51 PM
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BaylorFerg Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:49 PM)uconnwhaler Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:46 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.

Not often, but it happens. VA Governor went to bat for V-Tech to the ACC (was originally supposed to be Cuse with BC and Miami), and Orin Hatch (Senator, admittedly) got engaged in conference shenanigans until Utah got invited to the Pac-12. And in Texas, lord knows what happens there. We do know the Governor of Texas set about - and did- destroying SMU once-upon-a-time.

Yea, the story here is that Baylor owes its P5 life to Governor Ann Richards.

And that story has been debunked for decades. Ann Richards couldn't have cared less about where Baylor ended up. However, the Lt. Governor Bob Bullock and a few State Reps. definitely made sure that both Baylor AND Texas Tech were included. Neither were getting in without political involvement.
02-18-2016 04:16 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
Virginia was a unique situation because they were literally the swing vote. You had 6 teams pro expansion, and 2 anti-expansion, and UVA was the swing vote. That was when their governor stepped in and made the announcement that the only way UVA could vote for yes, was if Virginia Tech was included. Aside from that, other than just the politics of which school has influence and who within the government has influence on how that school is run, by and large governor's don't normally have a say in it.
02-18-2016 04:21 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
Illinois lawmakers are still trying to get another public university into the Big 10. The only one that is close to Big 10 in academics that have football at D1 is Northern Illinois. But, that is still a wide gap to overcome. The best bet if they could find a sugar daddy big business who could offer a P5 conference millions of dollars to add Northern Illinois. Memphis already have a sugar daddy who is trying to buy them a way into a P5. Could money be the influence to add schools into P5 conferences?
02-18-2016 04:22 PM
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 04:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Illinois lawmakers are still trying to get another public university into the Big 10. The only one that is close to Big 10 in academics that have football at D1 is Northern Illinois. But, that is still a wide gap to overcome. The best bet if they could find a sugar daddy big business who could offer a P5 conference millions of dollars to add Northern Illinois. Memphis already have a sugar daddy who is trying to buy them a way into a P5. Could money be the influence to add schools into P5 conferences?

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02-18-2016 04:43 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 04:16 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:49 PM)uconnwhaler Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:46 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.

Not often, but it happens. VA Governor went to bat for V-Tech to the ACC (was originally supposed to be Cuse with BC and Miami), and Orin Hatch (Senator, admittedly) got engaged in conference shenanigans until Utah got invited to the Pac-12. And in Texas, lord knows what happens there. We do know the Governor of Texas set about - and did- destroying SMU once-upon-a-time.

Yea, the story here is that Baylor owes its P5 life to Governor Ann Richards.

And that story has been debunked for decades. Ann Richards couldn't have cared less about where Baylor ended up. However, the Lt. Governor Bob Bullock and a few State Reps. definitely made sure that both Baylor AND Texas Tech were included. Neither were getting in without political involvement.

That's why I said 'story'. However, it would be very distressing if Texas State Legislators harmed a public school like UH in order to provide a benefit to a private school. But that's another issue entirely.

I find it rather credible that Baylor did receive some help in getting into the Big XII over UH. Especially if you looked at both institutions' athletic success in the years preceding the move.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2016 04:56 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-18-2016 04:54 PM
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 04:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I find it rather credible that Baylor did receive some help in getting into the Big XII over UH. Especially if you looked at both institutions' athletic success in the years preceding the move.

In the three seasons preceding the split, Houston went 4-28 in football. Baylor went 19-15.
02-18-2016 05:13 PM
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 05:13 PM)TheyCallMeBruce Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I find it rather credible that Baylor did receive some help in getting into the Big XII over UH. Especially if you looked at both institutions' athletic success in the years preceding the move.

In the three seasons preceding the split, Houston went 4-28 in football. Baylor went 19-15.

Baylor got help in avoiding being left out altogether. If there was a different #12, it would have been TCU.

Houston was in a bad place at that point in time and had a president who had bad relations with Texas and Texas A&M. He had threatened them and had no backup in the legislature.
02-18-2016 05:26 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 05:13 PM)TheyCallMeBruce Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I find it rather credible that Baylor did receive some help in getting into the Big XII over UH. Especially if you looked at both institutions' athletic success in the years preceding the move.

In the three seasons preceding the split, Houston went 4-28 in football. Baylor went 19-15.

Last 25 years prior to the split.. UH 10 top 25 finishes and 3 out of the last 10 years. Baylor 5, and 1 in the last 10. Houston had 11 tournament appearances in that time period, 5 conference championships, 2 Finals, 3 Final Fours, and a gazillion tournament wins. Baylor had 1 tournament appearance in the 25 years preceding the split. And 0 tournament wins.
02-18-2016 05:32 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 03:46 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.

I'm sure about a thousand people have already posted this, but ask UVA/VPI and Baylor/Texas how much governors can matter in realignment.
02-18-2016 07:18 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 04:21 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Virginia was a unique situation because they were literally the swing vote. You had 6 teams pro expansion, and 2 anti-expansion, and UVA was the swing vote. That was when their governor stepped in and made the announcement that the only way UVA could vote for yes, was if Virginia Tech was included. Aside from that, other than just the politics of which school has influence and who within the government has influence on how that school is run, by and large governor's don't normally have a say in it.

Technically, Virginia could have voted yes on the proposal to invite Miami, BC and Syracuse. But it wasn't just the governor's insistence that nixed that. The leaders of the Virginia legislature made it clear that they would cut off state funding to UVa, with the assurance the governor would sign that legislation, unless Va Tech was one of the three invited.

What no governor can do, however, is get a school into a conference unless that conference wants them. The idea that somehow the State of Illinois could exert pressure on the Big Ten to add another Illinois school is nonsense.
02-18-2016 09:05 PM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 04:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:16 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:49 PM)uconnwhaler Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:46 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Do governors have any sway when public institutions are involved? For example: could the governor of Iowa get ISU and Iowa people together with B1G and Big XII people, and exert influence to get them in a conference together.

Not often, but it happens. VA Governor went to bat for V-Tech to the ACC (was originally supposed to be Cuse with BC and Miami), and Orin Hatch (Senator, admittedly) got engaged in conference shenanigans until Utah got invited to the Pac-12. And in Texas, lord knows what happens there. We do know the Governor of Texas set about - and did- destroying SMU once-upon-a-time.

Yea, the story here is that Baylor owes its P5 life to Governor Ann Richards.

And that story has been debunked for decades. Ann Richards couldn't have cared less about where Baylor ended up. However, the Lt. Governor Bob Bullock and a few State Reps. definitely made sure that both Baylor AND Texas Tech were included. Neither were getting in without political involvement.

That's why I said 'story'. However, it would be very distressing if Texas State Legislators harmed a public school like UH in order to provide a benefit to a private school. But that's another issue entirely.

I find it rather credible that Baylor did receive some help in getting into the Big XII over UH. Especially if you looked at both institutions' athletic success in the years preceding the move.

I don't think athletic success was the motivator. The story I remember reading was that there was a disportioncate number of Tx St Leg who were Baylor alumni. Those members banded together as a block to push for Baylor. I assume there had to be some sort of a vote on allowing UT and aTm to move from the SWC to the B12 and the votes weren't there without the Baylor block.
02-18-2016 09:26 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 09:05 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:21 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Virginia was a unique situation because they were literally the swing vote. You had 6 teams pro expansion, and 2 anti-expansion, and UVA was the swing vote. That was when their governor stepped in and made the announcement that the only way UVA could vote for yes, was if Virginia Tech was included. Aside from that, other than just the politics of which school has influence and who within the government has influence on how that school is run, by and large governor's don't normally have a say in it.

Technically, Virginia could have voted yes on the proposal to invite Miami, BC and Syracuse. But it wasn't just the governor's insistence that nixed that. The leaders of the Virginia legislature made it clear that they would cut off state funding to UVa, with the assurance the governor would sign that legislation, unless Va Tech was one of the three invited.

What no governor can do, however, is get a school into a conference unless that conference wants them. The idea that somehow the State of Illinois could exert pressure on the Big Ten to add another Illinois school is nonsense.


Actually, the public schools are run by the state government. Technically, politicians and tax payers do have a say on who should be in the P5, not some snobs behind a desk determines who should be in or not. It is not a bad idea to cut tax payers money from going to the schools including the privates. People forget that the schools are connected with the government.
02-18-2016 09:27 PM
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 04:43 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:22 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Illinois lawmakers are still trying to get another public university into the Big 10. The only one that is close to Big 10 in academics that have football at D1 is Northern Illinois. But, that is still a wide gap to overcome. The best bet if they could find a sugar daddy big business who could offer a P5 conference millions of dollars to add Northern Illinois. Memphis already have a sugar daddy who is trying to buy them a way into a P5. Could money be the influence to add schools into P5 conferences?

01-wingedeagle

He never has a source for the crap he makes up in his head.
02-18-2016 09:42 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 09:26 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 04:16 PM)BaylorFerg Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 03:49 PM)uconnwhaler Wrote:  Not often, but it happens. VA Governor went to bat for V-Tech to the ACC (was originally supposed to be Cuse with BC and Miami), and Orin Hatch (Senator, admittedly) got engaged in conference shenanigans until Utah got invited to the Pac-12. And in Texas, lord knows what happens there. We do know the Governor of Texas set about - and did- destroying SMU once-upon-a-time.

Yea, the story here is that Baylor owes its P5 life to Governor Ann Richards.

And that story has been debunked for decades. Ann Richards couldn't have cared less about where Baylor ended up. However, the Lt. Governor Bob Bullock and a few State Reps. definitely made sure that both Baylor AND Texas Tech were included. Neither were getting in without political involvement.

That's why I said 'story'. However, it would be very distressing if Texas State Legislators harmed a public school like UH in order to provide a benefit to a private school. But that's another issue entirely.

I find it rather credible that Baylor did receive some help in getting into the Big XII over UH. Especially if you looked at both institutions' athletic success in the years preceding the move.

I don't think athletic success was the motivator. The story I remember reading was that there was a disportioncate number of Tx St Leg who were Baylor alumni. Those members banded together as a block to push for Baylor. I assume there had to be some sort of a vote on allowing UT and aTm to move from the SWC to the B12 and the votes weren't there without the Baylor block.

Which would be really sad if true, and I believe that to be the case. Harming the taxpayers in order to provide a huge boost to a private school.

Yep. Sounds like Texas. And I live here.
02-18-2016 10:06 PM
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ohio1317 Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
They really only have power in that they can affect the vote/decisions of their state schools. Iowa's governor for instance would have very little power as the only team they could influence the vote of from the Big Ten would be Iowa.

Where state power (not just governor) is relevant is when votes are tie-breakers (and there is a big desire to make a move) and when a powerful school in their state is moving.

Tie-breakers: There was not unanimous support in the ACC for going to 12. It very well could have been just Miami invited at the time. There was just enough support to go to 12 and add Syracuse and Boston College as well. When the state of Virginia got involved and said Virginia could only vote yes if Virginia Tech was included, that forced the pro-expansion schools hands. Either they accepted Virginia Tech in place of Syracuse or they were content with 10 for awhile. They choose the former.

Powerful schools moving: These are the more common type of places governors/states might have power. They cannot here influence which conferences invite, but they can place restrictions on the powerful school moving. With the Southwest Conference collapsing, they mandated 4 schools going together. This eliminated chances of Texas or Texas A&M heading on their own and pretty much mandated joining the Big 8 was the only option. Years down the road, the state could have stopped Texas A&M from leaving if they had chosen to exert enough pressure and felt that it would have left the other Texas schools high and dry.

We see similar, but slightly different scenarios elsewhere. Oklahoma probably cannot leave the Big 12 without taking Oklahoma State with them (which eliminates all/most the Sooners options). Texas might not be able to either. Similarly, it is quite possible that the Virginia schools couldn't leave without making sure the other was taken care of and North Carolina probably would have to at least take care of North Carolina State.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2016 11:41 PM by ohio1317.)
02-18-2016 11:38 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-18-2016 11:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Powerful schools moving: These are the more common type of places governors/states might have power. They cannot here influence which conferences invite, but they can place restrictions on the powerful school moving. With the Southwest Conference collapsing, they mandated 4 schools going together. This eliminated chances of Texas or Texas A&M heading on their own and pretty much mandated joining the Big 8 was the only option. Years down the road, the state could have stopped Texas A&M from leaving if they had chosen to exert enough pressure and felt that it would have left the other Texas schools high and dry.

IIRC, TAMU moved to the SEC when the Texas governor was an Aggie and while the state legislature was out of session.
02-19-2016 12:23 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Governors and realignment
(02-19-2016 12:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-18-2016 11:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Powerful schools moving: These are the more common type of places governors/states might have power. They cannot here influence which conferences invite, but they can place restrictions on the powerful school moving. With the Southwest Conference collapsing, they mandated 4 schools going together. This eliminated chances of Texas or Texas A&M heading on their own and pretty much mandated joining the Big 8 was the only option. Years down the road, the state could have stopped Texas A&M from leaving if they had chosen to exert enough pressure and felt that it would have left the other Texas schools high and dry.

IIRC, TAMU moved to the SEC when the Texas governor was an Aggie and while the state legislature was out of session.

No one was going to stop TAMU bolting. UH's backers wanted to break the Big XII in order to hopefully pry open a spot for them. So did TCU's backers. And TAMU was pretty much unanimous that 'we're leaving'. Had the leg tried to stop TAMU from leaving, the response from TAMU would have been very loud and very angry. And TAMU has a very large and very influential alumni base. They can get away with things that, say, Tech, might have more difficulty doing.

There was a lot of anger after the leg was seen as getting involved with the breakup of the SWC and the downgrading of UH, TCU, Rice, and SMU. I think the thought process in the legislature was...'we don't want to go through that again'.

Perry's 'protection' of TAMU was a bit overblown IMHO. His record as governor regarding TAMU was quite mixed in the view of many alumni.
02-19-2016 01:28 AM
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