Why would the B12 fight so hard for a waiver to hold a CCG at 10 schools... then turn right around and expand?

(02-17-2016 03:25 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 03:06 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  People don't seem to understand that the value of a P4, for those 4 conferences, would make up for taking a "lesser team" from the BigXII...Yes, I absolutely think the SEC could and would take Oklahoma State if Oklahoma were off the table and the BigXII was open season.

Lol. The SEC will not add oklahoma state ever. Period. Nor will they add west Virginia. Forget it. Wont happen. Threy might take fsu, clemson or gatech and would kick out mizzou if they could

Sure, because you know all, right? You're not thinking big picture, my friend...

(02-17-2016 07:12 PM)Bull Wrote:  Why would the B12 fight so hard for a waiver to hold a CCG at 10 schools... then turn right around and expand?

Options

(02-17-2016 04:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets look at this in a way. Boren backs Cincinnati to be in the Big 12. UConn, and BYU are not in. They are too far out of the footprint no matter how they are.

Memphis is not that bad in academics. They are at the level of TCU. Their basketball is really not that bad.

OUT: Houston, UConn, BYU, MWC teams

INs: Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Why would the Big XII want MORE "islands"?!

IN: Arkansas Tech

OUT: Everyone else.

(02-17-2016 07:12 PM)Bull Wrote:  Why would the B12 fight so hard for a waiver to hold a CCG at 10 schools... then turn right around and expand?

Because some wanted one and some wanted the other. Plus they ran the numbers. I'm sure the most difficult path to the playoffs was 10 team RR with a CCG.

Can all the Big 12 teams buy back their tier III inventory they just sold a couple years ago and form a Big 12 conference network and expand by two teams and make Texas whole regarding the LHN and still be profitable?

It would be tough to say the least.

Wouldn't the travel costs cancel it out?

I'm not only talking about men's hoops and football. I'm most interested in the Olympic sports athletes. You know, the ones who ACTUALLY GO TO CLASS.

No argument about my Huskies in the Big XII.

(02-17-2016 08:18 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 04:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets look at this in a way. Boren backs Cincinnati to be in the Big 12. UConn, and BYU are not in. They are too far out of the footprint no matter how they are.

Memphis is not that bad in academics. They are at the level of TCU. Their basketball is really not that bad.

OUT: Houston, UConn, BYU, MWC teams

INs: Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Why would the Big XII want MORE "islands"?!

More options


.

(02-17-2016 08:18 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 04:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets look at this in a way. Boren backs Cincinnati to be in the Big 12. UConn, and BYU are not in. They are too far out of the footprint no matter how they are.

Memphis is not that bad in academics. They are at the level of TCU. Their basketball is really not that bad.

OUT: Houston, UConn, BYU, MWC teams

INs: Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Why would the Big XII want MORE "islands"?!

The P5 conferences have to take all the things into account.

1.FCOA
2.Former players suing.
3.CTE and medical research for better safety.
4.Players could fight to be part of a union so that they can get paid for play.
5.Past money due from the players likeness from video games, board games and so forth.

It could eat up a lot of money if all this could happen. It can hurt the whole NCAA from top to D3. Adding BYU and UConn can cause the other schools pay more money just to travel.

(02-17-2016 08:18 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 04:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets look at this in a way. Boren backs Cincinnati to be in the Big 12. UConn, and BYU are not in. They are too far out of the footprint no matter how they are.

Memphis is not that bad in academics. They are at the level of TCU. Their basketball is really not that bad.

OUT: Houston, UConn, BYU, MWC teams

INs: Memphis, Cincinnati, East Carolina, UCF, USF

Why would the Big XII want MORE "islands"?!

The Big XII wants MORE islands?

Hallelujah! We're in!!

(02-17-2016 10:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 03:57 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(02-16-2016 10:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Sounds like Boren is getting his way. The AAC better start making contingency plans. I doubt they would do it, but losing Cincy and UConn would activate the ESPN option to cancel the AAC media contract.

Hey Attackcoog, while I'm rooting for Houston to get one of the invitations if the Big 12 expands, I'm curious to know: What two replacement schools would you like to see the AAC add (and why) if the Big 12 invitees were Cincinnati and UConn? Let's assume that the loss weakened the AAC enough that it could not steal from the MWC, but not enough that the MWC could steal from the AAC. What schools do you see as the best AAC expansion candidates in CUSA or the MAC or the Sun Belt?

UConn and Cincy both offer football programs capable of averaging 40K a year in attendance and elite basketball programs. You cant replace that "on the field" value. The only available candidates that come close to replacing the media value of UConn and Cincy are Army, Air Force, and BYU (following the assumptions you have laid out). So, in addition to your assumption that AF is off the table---I'm also going to say BYU is not happening either (cuz its not).

That leaves the AAC chasing Army. If Army says "yes", then I add another northeastern school (UMass I guess). Then I would add Wichita as a non-football school.

If Army says no, I add Wichita as a non-football school and soldier on with ten football schools. Nobody else is available that has a large enough budget to be competitive in the AAC AND would add media value to the AAC (outside of the MW). Because of that, I think we will make a run at Colorado St and AF (they will likely say no, but I do think we will talk to them).

Interesting. I didn't consider the non-football option.

I agree that Army and UMass would be a good pairing, but I can't see Army giving up independence, it seems to work well for them.

My outside-the-box candidates would be Southern Miss in the western division and Georgia Southern in the east. After some recent struggles Southern Miss has gotten things turned around and can build on a strong football tradition and decades-old rivalries with Memphis, East Carolina and Tulane. As for Georgia Southern, yes they're a recent FCS move-up but all they do is win, and they fill in the gap between East Carolina and USF/UCF nicely. Neither school would be a glamorous catch but both would be very solid football additions that would hold their own in conference and represent the AAC well in OOC matchups.

(02-18-2016 01:00 AM)KUGR Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 12:35 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  I'm not only talking about men's hoops and football. I'm most interested in the Olympic sports athletes. You know, the ones who ACTUALLY GO TO CLASS.

My point is that the island thing isn't an issue for the conference because so few trips will be made to that one school or two. And if we talk missed class time and travel expenses then UCONN is, by far, the worst choice.

Other than BYU, there's really not a lot of difference between the various candidates, so travel should be a big issue for UConn, UCF and USF.

(02-18-2016 04:48 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 10:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 03:57 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(02-16-2016 10:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Sounds like Boren is getting his way. The AAC better start making contingency plans. I doubt they would do it, but losing Cincy and UConn would activate the ESPN option to cancel the AAC media contract.

Hey Attackcoog, while I'm rooting for Houston to get one of the invitations if the Big 12 expands, I'm curious to know: What two replacement schools would you like to see the AAC add (and why) if the Big 12 invitees were Cincinnati and UConn? Let's assume that the loss weakened the AAC enough that it could not steal from the MWC, but not enough that the MWC could steal from the AAC. What schools do you see as the best AAC expansion candidates in CUSA or the MAC or the Sun Belt?

UConn and Cincy both offer football programs capable of averaging 40K a year in attendance and elite basketball programs. You cant replace that "on the field" value. The only available candidates that come close to replacing the media value of UConn and Cincy are Army, Air Force, and BYU (following the assumptions you have laid out). So, in addition to your assumption that AF is off the table---I'm also going to say BYU is not happening either (cuz its not).

That leaves the AAC chasing Army. If Army says "yes", then I add another northeastern school (UMass I guess). Then I would add Wichita as a non-football school.

If Army says no, I add Wichita as a non-football school and soldier on with ten football schools. Nobody else is available that has a large enough budget to be competitive in the AAC AND would add media value to the AAC (outside of the MW). Because of that, I think we will make a run at Colorado St and AF (they will likely say no, but I do think we will talk to them).

Interesting. I didn't consider the non-football option.

I agree that Army and UMass would be a good pairing, but I can't see Army giving up independence, it seems to work well for them.

My outside-the-box candidates would be Southern Miss in the western division and Georgia Southern in the east. After some recent struggles Southern Miss has gotten things turned around and can build on a strong football tradition and decades-old rivalries with Memphis, East Carolina and Tulane. As for Georgia Southern, yes they're a recent FCS move-up but all they do is win, and they fill in the gap between East Carolina and USF/UCF nicely. Neither school would be a glamorous catch but both would be very solid football additions that would hold their own in conference and represent the AAC well in OOC matchups.

Based on the choices that have made by the presidents thus far, i don't think schools like S Miss of Georgia Southern will be looked at. Despite all the wild realignment that the AAC has endured since 2011---the only AAC addition that's not a top 200 USNWP university is Memphis. They made it due to elite basketball and a large athletic budget for a G5 school. The S Miss athletic budget is barely over 20 million. Georgia Southerns is similar. Neither is a top 200 school. I doubt the presidents head in that direction, even though both would likely be interesting on the field additions.

Frankly, I'd prefer the conference stand pat with 10 if Army, Air Firce, BYU, or MW teams are not available. That said, if the replacement teams are not among those, expect the replacements to be academic matches that are fairly underwhelming from an on the field stand point. UMass is USNWR #75. Several MAC teams are USNWR top 100 schools. They would all have budgets higher than S Miss and Georgia Southen--though not by a whole lot.

Like I said, I don't support such desperate moves. I'd prefer to stand pat at 10 football schools while making a couple of strategic non-football school additions to shore up basketball. That would result in a small raise for the conference schools and prevents watering down the conference value any more than necessary. Best of all, it leaves a lot of future options open for the AAC.

(02-18-2016 10:27 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 04:48 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 10:22 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-17-2016 03:57 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(02-16-2016 10:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Sounds like Boren is getting his way. The AAC better start making contingency plans. I doubt they would do it, but losing Cincy and UConn would activate the ESPN option to cancel the AAC media contract.

Hey Attackcoog, while I'm rooting for Houston to get one of the invitations if the Big 12 expands, I'm curious to know: What two replacement schools would you like to see the AAC add (and why) if the Big 12 invitees were Cincinnati and UConn? Let's assume that the loss weakened the AAC enough that it could not steal from the MWC, but not enough that the MWC could steal from the AAC. What schools do you see as the best AAC expansion candidates in CUSA or the MAC or the Sun Belt?

UConn and Cincy both offer football programs capable of averaging 40K a year in attendance and elite basketball programs. You cant replace that "on the field" value. The only available candidates that come close to replacing the media value of UConn and Cincy are Army, Air Force, and BYU (following the assumptions you have laid out). So, in addition to your assumption that AF is off the table---I'm also going to say BYU is not happening either (cuz its not).

That leaves the AAC chasing Army. If Army says "yes", then I add another northeastern school (UMass I guess). Then I would add Wichita as a non-football school.

If Army says no, I add Wichita as a non-football school and soldier on with ten football schools. Nobody else is available that has a large enough budget to be competitive in the AAC AND would add media value to the AAC (outside of the MW). Because of that, I think we will make a run at Colorado St and AF (they will likely say no, but I do think we will talk to them).

Interesting. I didn't consider the non-football option.

I agree that Army and UMass would be a good pairing, but I can't see Army giving up independence, it seems to work well for them.

My outside-the-box candidates would be Southern Miss in the western division and Georgia Southern in the east. After some recent struggles Southern Miss has gotten things turned around and can build on a strong football tradition and decades-old rivalries with Memphis, East Carolina and Tulane. As for Georgia Southern, yes they're a recent FCS move-up but all they do is win, and they fill in the gap between East Carolina and USF/UCF nicely. Neither school would be a glamorous catch but both would be very solid football additions that would hold their own in conference and represent the AAC well in OOC matchups.

Based on the choices that have made by the presidents thus far, i don't schools like S Miss of Georgia Southern will be looked at. Despite all the wild realignment that the AAC has endured since 2011---the only AAC addition that's not a top 200 USNWP university is Memphis. They made it due to elite basketball and a large athletic budget for a G5 school. The S Miss athletic budget is barely over 20 million. Georgia Southerns is similar. Neither is a top 200 school. I doubt the presidents head in that direction, even though both would likely be interesting on the field additions.

Frankly, I'd prefer the conference stand pat with 10 if Army, Air Firce, BYU, or MW teams are not available. That said, if the replacement teams are not among those, expect the replacements to be academic matches that are fairly underwhelming from an on the field stand point. UMass is USNWR #75. Several MAC teams are USNWR top 100 schools. They would all have budgets higher than S Miss and Georgia Southen--though not by a whole lot.

Like I said, I don't support such desperate moves. I'd prefer to stand pat at 10 football schools while making a couple of strategic non-football school additions to shore up basketball. That would result in a small raise for the conference schools and prevents watering down the conference value any more than necessary. Best of all, it leaves a lot of future options open for the AAC.

Makes sense. Since there probably wouldn't be any further P5 raids on the G5 conferences after the Big 12 expansion, a strategy of quality over quantity is probably safe and will benefit the remaining AAC member schools more. Thanks for the insights.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/31244027/big-...Poll151410

Big 12 expansion decision could come this summer

Posted: Feb 17, 2016 10:52 AM CST
Updated: Feb 17, 2016 11:11 AM CST
By Neal Jones, News Producer/Editor

KANSAS CITY, MO (KCTV) -
A decision on whether to expand the Big 12 could be decided this summer, according to University of Oklahoma president David Boren.

Here's a list of possible additions:
•BYU: A rich football history with excellent athletic facilities, the Cougars are truly a national brand. They would bring in Salt Lake City, along with a number of smaller TV markets.
•Cincinnati: They compete with Ohio State and the Cincinnati Bengals for recognition. They often play in a half-empty Paul Brown Stadium. They would bring a number of large TV markets into the mix. They are not a national football brand, although hoops have been good.
•UCONN: The big-time basketball power has spent millions on their football program reaching a Fiesta Bowl where they were beaten by Oklahoma. Because of hoops, they are nationally known. They would bring in some major TV markets and would provide a neighbor for West Virginia.
•South Florida and Central Florida: I do radio in Tampa, and for years they've been pushing these schools as perfect targets for Big 12 expansion. Their argument: both USF and UCF boast massive enrollments, and reside in great TV markets (Tampa and Orlando). They both play in nice stadiums and have access to tremendous high school talent. With membership in the Big 12, they'll be able to grow their athletic programs. Just look at what Baylor and TCU have done. Since joining the Big 12, both schools have built or expanded their football stadiums and have heavily invested in basketball. The Florida schools would follow that path and bring Big 12 football into a state that loves college football. Neither school has a national following, but neither did Baylor- until they started winning.
•Boise State: Purely in terms of football success, the Broncos are a slam dunk. They've played in - and won - BCS bowl games (remember their epic Fiesta Bowl win over Oklahoma?). And they have turned their blue astro turf field into one of football's most recognized locations. They would be a neighbor for BYU, but they bring little else to the table. Their stadium is small (although it is filled). They would mean little in terms of adding TV markets to the mix.
•Houston: The Cougars are rolling right now, attracting national attention for their football success, but in all other ways, they would add nothing to the mix. The conference footprint already includes the city of Houston, and the other Texas schools have no desire to add another Texas school (some still see TCU as a mistake).

There are a few other possible candidates, but no one that appears to be a serious contender.

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com...to-decide/

As for potential expansion candidates, the data shows there are a handful of possibilities — or the usual suspects as some would label them. In addition to Cincinnati, Boise State, BYU, UConn, UCF and USF have been mentioned to varying degrees as fits for an expanded Big 12. Houston would seemingly be an ideal candidate as well, although there would likely be pushback from the state of Texas contingent in the league.

I would not count out Eastern Carolina. They are really number 2 behind BYU in fan support that shows up.

There is a whole Carolina that you miss though. And we are the flagship of the state. It's East Carolina. Damn that looks pretty