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Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
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TerryD Online
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Post: #21
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 01:52 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I'm over Notre Dame. If they want to join the Big Ten, then the conference will make room if they can but the Big Ten won't wait for them.

Florida State, I imagine, is not good enough on their own academically, not to mention their location of being on an island. They would certainly need one of Georgia Tech or Miami to be added along with themselves to tag along to satisfy the academics (assuming that Miami is regarded as good enough to cover for Florida State). I don't think the conference would want to have a "West Virginia" problem of having Florida State on an island, but would Miami and/or Georgia Tech leave the ACC without additional friends? I don't think so. North Carolina is likely the grand prize that the Big Ten would want from the ACC. I don't think there is a package of schools to bring North Carolina to the Big Ten that the Big Ten would approve, i.e. Wake Forest. UNC cares enough about Wake Forest that they agreed to play each other as a non-conference football opponents because they weren't playing enough since they are in opposite divisions.

I don't think Oklahoma is good enough on their own and would need the cover of another academic school to get Big Ten entrance. I'm not sure that Kansas is good enough cover for them, just as I am not sure Miami is good enough for Florida State. Likewise with UNC, I don't think there is a combination of schools that would be sexy enough for Texas to join the Big Ten that would be acceptable to the Big Ten. Texas plays what, like 9 games of their schedule in the state of Texas? At best, Texas would have four home conference games, the Red River Rivalry (which would replace the fifth home game in a 9 game conference schedule), and three non-conference games in-state.

TL;DR Version: Notre Dame will probably always have a spot saved for them or room will be made. Florida State would need to tag-along with a top notch academic or be in a group of academics to be invited while bringing a nearby partner. Oklahoma is probably not good enough on their own but require less help than FSU. Texas and UNC may be pipe dreams because the Big Ten can't offer them a package that checks off every box.

(04-11-2016 07:41 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  In that case, can I have your tickets?

No. You are a Michigan fan. I don't like Michigan fans. :)

I'll just burn 'em.
04-11-2016 10:04 AM
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
I think Oklahoma is a solid bet to eventually join in the next decade or so.

FSU is much, much less likely due to logistics but I don't think that the schools particularly be against adding them, given their rich history of football success ("NCAA Franchise Player"), huge national following, and being in one of the prime market and recruiting states.

I could definitely see the B1G already having a long-term plan in place to try to eventually get to Florida and Texas in a 20-team conference, with perhaps some combination of Oklahoma, Kansas, Rice, Duke, UNC, UVA, GT as stepping stones to take Texas and Florida State from the B12 and ACC.
04-11-2016 01:18 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-11-2016 01:18 PM)AntiG Wrote:  I think Oklahoma is a solid bet to eventually join in the next decade or so.

FSU is much, much less likely due to logistics but I don't think that the schools particularly be against adding them, given their rich history of football success ("NCAA Franchise Player"), huge national following, and being in one of the prime market and recruiting states.

I could definitely see the B1G already having a long-term plan in place to try to eventually get to Florida and Texas in a 20-team conference, with perhaps some combination of Oklahoma, Kansas, Rice, Duke, UNC, UVA, GT as stepping stones to take Texas and Florida State from the B12 and ACC.

I don't think Rice has any chance what so ever of being added to the B1G.

KU, OU and UT in the West and UVA, UNC and GT gets you to 20. Where does FSU fit? without GT you have a large gap between UNC and FSU.
04-11-2016 02:45 PM
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Sparty84 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-11-2016 10:04 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-14-2016 01:52 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I'm over Notre Dame. If they want to join the Big Ten, then the conference will make room if they can but the Big Ten won't wait for them.

Florida State, I imagine, is not good enough on their own academically, not to mention their location of being on an island. They would certainly need one of Georgia Tech or Miami to be added along with themselves to tag along to satisfy the academics (assuming that Miami is regarded as good enough to cover for Florida State). I don't think the conference would want to have a "West Virginia" problem of having Florida State on an island, but would Miami and/or Georgia Tech leave the ACC without additional friends? I don't think so. North Carolina is likely the grand prize that the Big Ten would want from the ACC. I don't think there is a package of schools to bring North Carolina to the Big Ten that the Big Ten would approve, i.e. Wake Forest. UNC cares enough about Wake Forest that they agreed to play each other as a non-conference football opponents because they weren't playing enough since they are in opposite divisions.

I don't think Oklahoma is good enough on their own and would need the cover of another academic school to get Big Ten entrance. I'm not sure that Kansas is good enough cover for them, just as I am not sure Miami is good enough for Florida State. Likewise with UNC, I don't think there is a combination of schools that would be sexy enough for Texas to join the Big Ten that would be acceptable to the Big Ten. Texas plays what, like 9 games of their schedule in the state of Texas? At best, Texas would have four home conference games, the Red River Rivalry (which would replace the fifth home game in a 9 game conference schedule), and three non-conference games in-state.

TL;DR Version: Notre Dame will probably always have a spot saved for them or room will be made. Florida State would need to tag-along with a top notch academic or be in a group of academics to be invited while bringing a nearby partner. Oklahoma is probably not good enough on their own but require less help than FSU. Texas and UNC may be pipe dreams because the Big Ten can't offer them a package that checks off every box.

(04-11-2016 07:41 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  In that case, can I have your tickets?


No. You are a Michigan fan. I don't like Michigan fans. :)

I'll just burn 'em.

Hey Terry,
I have always loved Michigan State-Notre Dame games. From my viewpoint they are one of Michigan States greatest rivals. Unlike the Wolverines who i will dislike till the day i die. I like the irish. For the reason of seeing the Notre Dame- Michigan State rivalry continue for years to come i would love to have the Irish more involved with the BIG.
04-11-2016 07:59 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
Do not be confused. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend... Unless your enemy is Michigan and you're not Ohio State. So, carry on...

You'll soon have plenty of stories to share as conference mates... how Michigan did you wrong.. Talk about that pre-Harbaugh years... yada yada dada 04-cheers 03-wink
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2016 09:09 PM by SeaBlue.)
04-11-2016 09:02 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #26
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-11-2016 07:59 PM)Sparty84 Wrote:  
(04-11-2016 10:04 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(02-14-2016 01:52 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I'm over Notre Dame. If they want to join the Big Ten, then the conference will make room if they can but the Big Ten won't wait for them.

Florida State, I imagine, is not good enough on their own academically, not to mention their location of being on an island. They would certainly need one of Georgia Tech or Miami to be added along with themselves to tag along to satisfy the academics (assuming that Miami is regarded as good enough to cover for Florida State). I don't think the conference would want to have a "West Virginia" problem of having Florida State on an island, but would Miami and/or Georgia Tech leave the ACC without additional friends? I don't think so. North Carolina is likely the grand prize that the Big Ten would want from the ACC. I don't think there is a package of schools to bring North Carolina to the Big Ten that the Big Ten would approve, i.e. Wake Forest. UNC cares enough about Wake Forest that they agreed to play each other as a non-conference football opponents because they weren't playing enough since they are in opposite divisions.

I don't think Oklahoma is good enough on their own and would need the cover of another academic school to get Big Ten entrance. I'm not sure that Kansas is good enough cover for them, just as I am not sure Miami is good enough for Florida State. Likewise with UNC, I don't think there is a combination of schools that would be sexy enough for Texas to join the Big Ten that would be acceptable to the Big Ten. Texas plays what, like 9 games of their schedule in the state of Texas? At best, Texas would have four home conference games, the Red River Rivalry (which would replace the fifth home game in a 9 game conference schedule), and three non-conference games in-state.

TL;DR Version: Notre Dame will probably always have a spot saved for them or room will be made. Florida State would need to tag-along with a top notch academic or be in a group of academics to be invited while bringing a nearby partner. Oklahoma is probably not good enough on their own but require less help than FSU. Texas and UNC may be pipe dreams because the Big Ten can't offer them a package that checks off every box.

(04-11-2016 07:41 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  In that case, can I have your tickets?


No. You are a Michigan fan. I don't like Michigan fans. :)

I'll just burn 'em.

Hey Terry,
I have always loved Michigan State-Notre Dame games. From my viewpoint they are one of Michigan States greatest rivals. Unlike the Wolverines who i will dislike till the day i die. I like the irish. For the reason of seeing the Notre Dame- Michigan State rivalry continue for years to come i would love to have the Irish more involved with the BIG.

The Michigan State series the one I would like to be maintained. I am aware of the history and relationship between ND and MSU.
04-11-2016 09:38 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #27
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-11-2016 09:02 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Do not be confused. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend... Unless your enemy is Michigan and you're not Ohio State. So, carry on...

You'll soon have plenty of stories to share as conference mates... how Michigan did you wrong.. Talk about that pre-Harbaugh years... yada yada dada 04-cheers 03-wink

Nah, that will never happen. Sorry.
04-11-2016 09:41 PM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
The cost of college education is reaching a tipping point. Someone is going to wise up soon and stop lending kids more money than they can reasonably be expected to pay back, and with the next downturn in the economy I think parents are going to be less willing to send their kids to their college of choice with a "cost be damned" attitude.

Does that affect ND? Good question. It depends a little on if ND wants to keep its tuition within reach of mere mortals. I suspect that even ND suspects that change is coming in higher education.

At this point, it's "just" about football. I think over time the "independence" mantra will continue to lose its luster with the next generation of fans and the administration will take a hard look at where it wants to be. The Big Ten appears to have softened up, is ND next? Could just as easily be the ACC, but they want to shackle schools to the conference, and I'm not really sure if ND is up for that.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 11:45 AM by SeaBlue.)
04-12-2016 11:26 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-11-2016 02:45 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(04-11-2016 01:18 PM)AntiG Wrote:  I think Oklahoma is a solid bet to eventually join in the next decade or so.

FSU is much, much less likely due to logistics but I don't think that the schools particularly be against adding them, given their rich history of football success ("NCAA Franchise Player"), huge national following, and being in one of the prime market and recruiting states.

I could definitely see the B1G already having a long-term plan in place to try to eventually get to Florida and Texas in a 20-team conference, with perhaps some combination of Oklahoma, Kansas, Rice, Duke, UNC, UVA, GT as stepping stones to take Texas and Florida State from the B12 and ACC.

I don't think Rice has any chance what so ever of being added to the B1G.

KU, OU and UT in the West and UVA, UNC and GT gets you to 20. Where does FSU fit? without GT you have a large gap between UNC and FSU.

Rice I threw in there because they are located right in Houston, are an elite academic institution, AAU, NASA/Govt connection, a huge endowment, and one of the best baseball schools out there. Much like Duke, they'd be a fantastic addition and brings a lot to the table, and essentially is an offset for the non-AAU schools that some of the University presidents and snobby types would poo-poo about if we added Oklahoma or FSU. And unlike the talk in another thread about NYU, Rice has a long and legendary football history (and still are competitive) in a power conference when the SWC was around.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 01:00 PM by AntiG.)
04-12-2016 12:58 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #30
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 01:52 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I'm over Notre Dame. If they want to join the Big Ten, then the conference will make room if they can but the Big Ten won't wait for them.

Florida State, I imagine, is not good enough on their own academically, not to mention their location of being on an island. They would certainly need one of Georgia Tech or Miami to be added along with themselves to tag along to satisfy the academics (assuming that Miami is regarded as good enough to cover for Florida State). I don't think the conference would want to have a "West Virginia" problem of having Florida State on an island, but would Miami and/or Georgia Tech leave the ACC without additional friends? I don't think so. North Carolina is likely the grand prize that the Big Ten would want from the ACC. I don't think there is a package of schools to bring North Carolina to the Big Ten that the Big Ten would approve, i.e. Wake Forest. UNC cares enough about Wake Forest that they agreed to play each other as a non-conference football opponents because they weren't playing enough since they are in opposite divisions.

I don't think Oklahoma is good enough on their own and would need the cover of another academic school to get Big Ten entrance. I'm not sure that Kansas is good enough cover for them, just as I am not sure Miami is good enough for Florida State. Likewise with UNC, I don't think there is a combination of schools that would be sexy enough for Texas to join the Big Ten that would be acceptable to the Big Ten. Texas plays what, like 9 games of their schedule in the state of Texas? At best, Texas would have four home conference games, the Red River Rivalry (which would replace the fifth home game in a 9 game conference schedule), and three non-conference games in-state.

TL;DR Version: Notre Dame will probably always have a spot saved for them or room will be made. Florida State would need to tag-along with a top notch academic or be in a group of academics to be invited while bringing a nearby partner. Oklahoma is probably not good enough on their own but require less help than FSU. Texas and UNC may be pipe dreams because the Big Ten can't offer them a package that checks off every box.

(04-12-2016 11:26 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  The cost of college education is reaching a tipping point. Someone is going to wise up soon and stop lending kids more money than they can reasonably be expected to pay back, and with the next downturn in the economy I think parents are going to be less willing to send their kids to their college of choice with a "cost be damned" attitude.

Does that affect ND? Good question. It depends a little on if ND wants to keep its tuition within reach of mere mortals. I suspect that even ND suspects that change is coming in higher education.

At this point, it's "just" about football. I think over time the "independence" mantra will continue to lose its luster with the next generation of fans and the administration will take a hard look at where it wants to be. The Big Ten appears to have softened up, is ND next? Could just as easily be the ACC, but they want to shackle schools to the conference, and I'm not really sure if ND is up for that.


I think that this post is a combination of wishful thinking, self projection (independence mantra will lose luster) and the forced connection of two disconnected subjects (football and tuition).

Why do you guys continue to want ND football in a conference it does not want to be? I don't get it, honestly.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 03:16 PM by TerryD.)
04-12-2016 03:15 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #31
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(02-14-2016 01:52 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I'm over Notre Dame. If they want to join the Big Ten, then the conference will make room if they can but the Big Ten won't wait for them.

Florida State, I imagine, is not good enough on their own academically, not to mention their location of being on an island. They would certainly need one of Georgia Tech or Miami to be added along with themselves to tag along to satisfy the academics (assuming that Miami is regarded as good enough to cover for Florida State). I don't think the conference would want to have a "West Virginia" problem of having Florida State on an island, but would Miami and/or Georgia Tech leave the ACC without additional friends? I don't think so. North Carolina is likely the grand prize that the Big Ten would want from the ACC. I don't think there is a package of schools to bring North Carolina to the Big Ten that the Big Ten would approve, i.e. Wake Forest. UNC cares enough about Wake Forest that they agreed to play each other as a non-conference football opponents because they weren't playing enough since they are in opposite divisions.

I don't think Oklahoma is good enough on their own and would need the cover of another academic school to get Big Ten entrance. I'm not sure that Kansas is good enough cover for them, just as I am not sure Miami is good enough for Florida State. Likewise with UNC, I don't think there is a combination of schools that would be sexy enough for Texas to join the Big Ten that would be acceptable to the Big Ten. Texas plays what, like 9 games of their schedule in the state of Texas? At best, Texas would have four home conference games, the Red River Rivalry (which would replace the fifth home game in a 9 game conference schedule), and three non-conference games in-state.

TL;DR Version: Notre Dame will probably always have a spot saved for them or room will be made. Florida State would need to tag-along with a top notch academic or be in a group of academics to be invited while bringing a nearby partner. Oklahoma is probably not good enough on their own but require less help than FSU. Texas and UNC may be pipe dreams because the Big Ten can't offer them a package that checks off every box.

(04-11-2016 09:02 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Do not be confused. The enemy of your enemy is not your friend... Unless your enemy is Michigan and you're not Ohio State. So, carry on...

You'll soon have plenty of stories to share as conference mates... how Michigan did you wrong.. Talk about that pre-Harbaugh years... yada yada dada 04-cheers 03-wink


ND has no friends. The enemy of its enemy is merely a temporary co-combatant, not a friend. I view all conferences as bad things, with some having more temporary value or usefulness than others.

I am far from a fan of the ACC, for instance. In my view, its main value is to put a stick in the eye of Jim Delany, for example, using its partial membership stance to keep ND (football in particular) out of the clutches of the Big Ten.

Other benefits are football games in the Southeast for recruiting, a good basketball league and some warm weather baseball venues in March/April.

But, I don't care about the ACC beyond that, much as I cared little to nothing for the Big East. Conferences are at best just marginally useful, bureaucratic constructs, not institutions that should engender any loyalty or sentimental feelings.

If anything, conference realignment has proven that.

To me, one is as a bad as the other, with the personal exception that I dislike the Big Ten more than most (the SEC is neck and neck, I have lived here as an out-of-place, unrepentant Yankee in SEC land for 33 years)

Joining the ACC for football is only marginally less awful than joining the Big Ten. Joining any conference for football is a total surrender of 128 years of ND history, tradition and "branding".

It will damage ND and be a total surrender to persons and entities who/that do not have ND's best interests in mind, in fact, probably just the total opposite of that.

I personally view conferences as awful, evil things that strip individuality and limit things like interesting bowl matchups and intersectional games and rivalries.

I didn't like that ND basketball gave up its independence to join the Big East in 1995. I was a bigger ND basketball fan in the Seventies and Eighties than I am now.

Once ND gave up its basketball independence and became just like everyone else (in a conference), I lost some of my fan zeal. Part of my ND fandom (particularly in the last 25 years or so) is based on my contrarian streak. I liked that ND went against the grain and was different.

I don't like the fact that ND has sports in the ACC and in particular I dislike that ND will play hockey in the Big Ten.

I will lose much of my interest in ND football if they run up the white flag, particularly if it joins the Big Ten. Sorry.

I would rather that each school set its own schedules, cut its own TV deals and that the bowls are open to any and all good matchups for that particular season.

At best, I view conferences, any and all of them, as merely temporary business arrangements, to be used and cast aside when no longer worth using, nothing more grand or useful, "good" or wonderful than that.

I have never understood the concept of "conference pride" or "conference brethren" and never will. All of this conference chest thumping has always been completely lost on me.

I wanted Villanova to win the basketball championship game, not "conference mate" North Carolina.

My opinion is that there are many thousands of ND fans with similar views, if not as extreme.

If ND joins the Big Ten in full, you will have many of these conference malcontents among you in your conference.........

If ND joined the Big Ten, I definitely would not watch or pay any attention to non-ND Big Ten games and would daily hope that the conference would implode, crash and burn.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 04:43 PM by TerryD.)
04-12-2016 03:20 PM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
[Image: pme2hr5.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 04:44 PM by SeaBlue.)
04-12-2016 04:42 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #33
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
Lol, sorry for the looong post, but I wanted to give one ND fan's (me, lol) honest response to Transic_NYC's question about "easing" ND fans into the idea of full Big Ten membership and your response about enemies/friends.

I will get off my soapbox now and just occasionally stop by here for any realignment news or takes. Take care.
04-12-2016 04:55 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-12-2016 11:26 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  The cost of college education is reaching a tipping point. Someone is going to wise up soon and stop lending kids more money than they can reasonably be expected to pay back, and with the next downturn in the economy I think parents are going to be less willing to send their kids to their college of choice with a "cost be damned" attitude.

Does that affect ND? Good question. It depends a little on if ND wants to keep its tuition within reach of mere mortals. I suspect that even ND suspects that change is coming in higher education.

At this point, it's "just" about football. I think over time the "independence" mantra will continue to lose its luster with the next generation of fans and the administration will take a hard look at where it wants to be. The Big Ten appears to have softened up, is ND next? Could just as easily be the ACC, but they want to shackle schools to the conference, and I'm not really sure if ND is up for that.

Notre Dame will do what's best for Notre Dame. If they had their choice of any P5 (and I'm sure they currently do), what makes you think they'd choose the Big Ten if they were forced to join a conference? I don't know that they would. The ACC gives them more east coast exposure in better recruiting territory with more historic rivals while not sacrificing academics compared to the SEC and Big 12. Notre Dame could have kept playing Big Ten schools when they joined the ACC but they chose to drop the Michigans and Purdue. The Big Ten is in Notre Dame's footprint but I'm sure that's more of a negative as they'd want a national schedule.

Just let Notre Dame stay independent. I'd rather my schools be in a conference but I don't want to crap on a school for wanting independence.
04-12-2016 05:55 PM
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Post: #35
Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
I put this in another topic but the thoughts belong in this discussion:

If the B1G is to make another move, #15 has to be a game changer from a brand perspective: Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame. If the conference cannot get one of these three, don't expand. If it can, #16 can be more focused on expanding the TV market footprint. The exception to this rule would be a UNC/UVA combo, where the combined TV market trumps football brand. Although, I don't think state politics allows UNC or UVA to leave their other state schools (and maybe this is the case with Oklahoma and Kansas as well).

To me, if the B1G can grab Notre Dame, the logical partner is UConn. From a scheduling perspective: 16 in pods of 4 is much easier to schedule than 14 (in two divisions) for both football and basketball. Pods work out perfectly:

1. Mid-Atlantic 2. Northeast
Connecticut Michigan
Maryland Michigan State
Penn State Notre Dame
Rutgers Ohio State

3. Midwest 4. West
Illinois Iowa
Indiana Minnesota
Northwestern Nebraska
Purdue Wisconsin

For a 9 game conference football schedule, each team plays their pod then plays ever other team in the conference bi-annually. For an 18 game conference basketball schedule, you play a home and home with your pod, then play every other team once. These pods are the best combination of rivalries and geography. A four year football player gets to see every campus in the B1G.

So the question remains: why would ND join the B1G. We are talking LONG TERM perspective here. The B1G and SEC (and maybe the PAC 12) create a revenue gap so large compared to the other conferences that ND is incentivized to join to maintain competitive spending.

Maybe there is synergy between the B1G and Notre Dame to create greater value for the B1G Network than ND or the B1G can find anywhere else. A win win for both sides.

Also: the college football playoff expands to 6 or 8 so each conference champion gets an automatic bid. Therefore, ND can play a tough OOC schedule against USC, Stanford and Navy, in addition to nine conference games (or ND could rotate Stanford and USC bi-annually). ND could get into the playoff as a wild card or by winning the B1G, as losing a game or two isn't the end of the world like it is now in college football.

In the end money trumps all. If the ACC falls significantly behind the B1G and SEC, ND will have a choice to make.

Btw this is coming from an IU alum who hates ND. If I had my way, I would like the conference to simply add OU and Kansas, put Purdue in the east division, and be done with realignment forever.
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 09:14 PM by akhosrof.)
04-12-2016 08:48 PM
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akhosrof Offline
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Post: #36
Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
While on the rumor mill, Twitter user @bluevodreal is claiming to be an insider who states the B1G is serious along in the process of adding Notre Dame, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech and Florida State. He seems pretty confident about his sources FWIW.

IF this was the case, I think five four team pods work best:

1. South
Duke
Florida State
Georgia Tech
North Carolina

2. Mid-Atlantic
Maryland
Penn State
Rutgers
Virginia

3. Northeast
Michigan
Michigan State
Notre Dame
Ohio State

4. Midwest
Illinois
Indiana
Northwestern
Purdue

5. West
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska
Wisconsin

Basketball would go to a 22 game conference schedule: home-and-home with the pod, play everyone else once. Honestly, I think 20 schools is way too many. I would much rather have 16 schools with four pods of four. But money talks!
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2016 09:11 PM by akhosrof.)
04-12-2016 08:57 PM
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
^ well this rumor was floated around a few years ago as well, along with the idea of a 20 school conference... I'm sure Delany has at least been trying
04-12-2016 11:56 PM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #38
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-12-2016 08:48 PM)akhosrof Wrote:  I put this in another topic but the thoughts belong in this discussion:

If the B1G is to make another move, #15 has to be a game changer from a brand perspective: Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame. If the conference cannot get one of these three, don't expand. If it can, #16 can be more focused on expanding the TV market footprint. The exception to this rule would be a UNC/UVA combo, where the combined TV market trumps football brand. Although, I don't think state politics allows UNC or UVA to leave their other state schools (and maybe this is the case with Oklahoma and Kansas as well).

To me, if the B1G can grab Notre Dame, the logical partner is UConn. From a scheduling perspective: 16 in pods of 4 is much easier to schedule than 14 (in two divisions) for both football and basketball. Pods work out perfectly:

1. Mid-Atlantic 2. Northeast
Connecticut Michigan
Maryland Michigan State
Penn State Notre Dame
Rutgers Ohio State

3. Midwest 4. West
Illinois Iowa
Indiana Minnesota
Northwestern Nebraska
Purdue Wisconsin

For a 9 game conference football schedule, each team plays their pod then plays ever other team in the conference bi-annually. For an 18 game conference basketball schedule, you play a home and home with your pod, then play every other team once. These pods are the best combination of rivalries and geography. A four year football player gets to see every campus in the B1G.

So the question remains: why would ND join the B1G. We are talking LONG TERM perspective here. The B1G and SEC (and maybe the PAC 12) create a revenue gap so large compared to the other conferences that ND is incentivized to join to maintain competitive spending.

Maybe there is synergy between the B1G and Notre Dame to create greater value for the B1G Network than ND or the B1G can find anywhere else. A win win for both sides.

Also: the college football playoff expands to 6 or 8 so each conference champion gets an automatic bid. Therefore, ND can play a tough OOC schedule against USC, Stanford and Navy, in addition to nine conference games (or ND could rotate Stanford and USC bi-annually). ND could get into the playoff as a wild card or by winning the B1G, as losing a game or two isn't the end of the world like it is now in college football.

In the end money trumps all. If the ACC falls significantly behind the B1G and SEC, ND will have a choice to make.

Btw this is coming from an IU alum who hates ND. If I had my way, I would like the conference to simply add OU and Kansas, put Purdue in the east division, and be done with realignment forever.

ND gets most of its TV money from NBC, not from the ACC/ESPN.
04-13-2016 07:02 AM
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akhosrof Offline
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Post: #39
Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
(04-13-2016 07:02 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(04-12-2016 08:48 PM)akhosrof Wrote:  I put this in another topic but the thoughts belong in this discussion:

If the B1G is to make another move, #15 has to be a game changer from a brand perspective: Texas, Oklahoma, Notre Dame. If the conference cannot get one of these three, don't expand. If it can, #16 can be more focused on expanding the TV market footprint. The exception to this rule would be a UNC/UVA combo, where the combined TV market trumps football brand. Although, I don't think state politics allows UNC or UVA to leave their other state schools (and maybe this is the case with Oklahoma and Kansas as well).

To me, if the B1G can grab Notre Dame, the logical partner is UConn. From a scheduling perspective: 16 in pods of 4 is much easier to schedule than 14 (in two divisions) for both football and basketball. Pods work out perfectly:

1. Mid-Atlantic 2. Northeast
Connecticut Michigan
Maryland Michigan State
Penn State Notre Dame
Rutgers Ohio State

3. Midwest 4. West
Illinois Iowa
Indiana Minnesota
Northwestern Nebraska
Purdue Wisconsin

For a 9 game conference football schedule, each team plays their pod then plays ever other team in the conference bi-annually. For an 18 game conference basketball schedule, you play a home and home with your pod, then play every other team once. These pods are the best combination of rivalries and geography. A four year football player gets to see every campus in the B1G.

So the question remains: why would ND join the B1G. We are talking LONG TERM perspective here. The B1G and SEC (and maybe the PAC 12) create a revenue gap so large compared to the other conferences that ND is incentivized to join to maintain competitive spending.

Maybe there is synergy between the B1G and Notre Dame to create greater value for the B1G Network than ND or the B1G can find anywhere else. A win win for both sides.

Also: the college football playoff expands to 6 or 8 so each conference champion gets an automatic bid. Therefore, ND can play a tough OOC schedule against USC, Stanford and Navy, in addition to nine conference games (or ND could rotate Stanford and USC bi-annually). ND could get into the playoff as a wild card or by winning the B1G, as losing a game or two isn't the end of the world like it is now in college football.

In the end money trumps all. If the ACC falls significantly behind the B1G and SEC, ND will have a choice to make.

Btw this is coming from an IU alum who hates ND. If I had my way, I would like the conference to simply add OU and Kansas, put Purdue in the east division, and be done with realignment forever.

ND gets most of its TV money from NBC, not from the ACC/ESPN.

Exactly, and they still aren't receiving more in TV money than Indiana or Purdue (I believe both schools receive more, however it's hard to verify given ND is a private school). The NBC money on its own wasn't enough and the school had to concede five football games to the ACC to supplement. I haven't done an analysis on what those five games are worth, and if that could possibly negatively impact a new NBC deal given the low football brand perception within the ACC (outside of FSU and Clemson).

Could Notre Dame make more money in the B1G as a full member? Probably not enough now to give up football "independence". But ten years from now? At the rate things are going the revenue gap could be very large. And that argument goes for Notre Dame and the SEC/Pac 12 as well. I'm sure either conference would accept Notre Dame as a full member and the school would receive much higher TV revenues in either of those conferences than it could from "independence" and NBC.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2016 08:03 AM by akhosrof.)
04-13-2016 07:12 AM
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SeaBlue Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Non-AAU Notre Dame was offered B1G; so why is OU or FSU unrealistic?
Bluevod ‏@Bluevodreal 12h12 hours ago
@schadec15 Put a fork in the ACC.

Bluevod has been all over the place on Twitter.

It concerns me that he was very specific with that comment. Sad day if he's right about that. And if he's wrong, it will be hard to forgive him for being so reckless with his comments.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2016 07:52 AM by SeaBlue.)
04-13-2016 07:51 AM
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