(02-11-2016 09:43 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  I don't see the Dunphy on hot seat one. Prior to joining the AAC he went to 6 straight NCAAs. I just think Temple struggled once it got into the AAC, day in and day out tougher competition than the A10. Guy won 26 games last year, got snubbed by the NCAA. And is second in the conference right now behind the #16 team in the country.

He's had a couple WTF losses this year but contrary to what some may say, this was a step up in competition for them, just look at the record prior to the AAC and then their first year in the AAC. But they seem to be adjusting.

Zero Sweet Sixteens and above. We're consistently good, but never great. He's too old, and doesn't have the track-record to recruit today's game.

(02-11-2016 10:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I'll add the same qualifier, JMO, but Cal and Pastner both started out at Memphis with a contract that paid ~1 million

I think it's at least safe to assume 950k-1 million is where the next coach will start off too.

Huge difference was Cal was an experienced HC...took a Div I team to the Final Four...coached in the NBA...where as Pastner was never a head coach...and that wasMemphis' biggest mistake...as they were, maybe still are, a "power team" (i.e. Top 25-30), where they could have, with the right offer, secured an EXPERIENCED HC to take over their solid program...but they choose to go for the "next guy left on Cal's bench".

(02-11-2016 11:02 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I'll add the same qualifier, JMO, but Cal and Pastner both started out at Memphis with a contract that paid ~1 million

I think it's at least safe to assume 950k-1 million is where the next coach will start off too.

Huge difference was Cal was an experienced HC...took a Div I team to the Final Four...coached in the NBA...where as Pastner was never a head coach...and that wasMemphis' biggest mistake...as they were, maybe still are, a "power team" (i.e. Top 25-30), where they could have, with the right offer, secured an EXPERIENCED HC to take over their solid program...but they choose to go for the "next guy left on Cal's bench".

don't forget that Memphis offered the job to Mike Anderson (Mizzou at the time), Tim Floyd (USC at the time), Scott Drew (Baylor), and Leonard Hamilton (FSU)

Pastner wasn't Memphis' first choice...Cal wanted us to hire Tony Barbee

I won't go so far as to say that his seat is even warm yet, but UC fans are becoming disenchanted with Mick Cronin... If this team doesn't make the NCAA tournament and at least get out of the first round, things will start getting really nasty.

(02-11-2016 10:55 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:40 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:38 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:35 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Because he is the best candidate available, or because he doesn't cost much?

BOTH...we're lucky in that we can get both in one IF we act this season...If we don't, another name program will.

I watched him coach circles around Pastner with half as talented kids...we had Shaq and Austin...they had coaching.

JMO, but I think you are assuming we don't want to pay much, and that he is the best candidate available. If the first assumption is incorrect, then that widens the field of available candidates.

I'll add the same qualifier, JMO, but Cal and Pastner both started out at Memphis with a contract that paid ~1 million

I think it's at least safe to assume 950k-1 million is where the next coach will start off too.

Those were 16 and 7 years ago. I don't think that is the overriding factor. I think it depends on who is available and what it will take to get him.

We just paid our new HC in FB, with no experience, $1.8M, $400K over what we were paying our last coach. Not that we will do that in BB, but history is not the best gauge of what we are willing to spend.

I'm just explaining my thought process...plus the 10.6 buyout, and Norvell's 1.8 million, are factored into my thinking.

again, I'd love to be wrong and for Memphis to go get Marshall from WSU for 4 million or something...but I'm just saying, even if we have to go low...a really good coach in Underwood is willing and available.

(02-11-2016 11:02 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I'll add the same qualifier, JMO, but Cal and Pastner both started out at Memphis with a contract that paid ~1 million

I think it's at least safe to assume 950k-1 million is where the next coach will start off too.

Huge difference was Cal was an experienced HC...took a Div I team to the Final Four...coached in the NBA...where as Pastner was never a head coach...and that wasMemphis' biggest mistake...as they were, maybe still are, a "power team" (i.e. Top 25-30), where they could have, with the right offer, secured an EXPERIENCED HC to take over their solid program...but they choose to go for the "next guy left on Cal's bench".

You think we "chose" that path? Nobody else would take the damn job, following Calipari. We offered Tim Floyd, Scott Drew and Leonard Hamilton, and approached several others.

Pastner wasn't the last man standing, he was the only man standing. We won't have that problem this time, I would hope.

personally I'd call Underwood at SFA and Jerod Haase at UAB...I bet one of em would take the job...both are really good coaches.

(02-11-2016 11:06 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 11:02 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I'll add the same qualifier, JMO, but Cal and Pastner both started out at Memphis with a contract that paid ~1 million

I think it's at least safe to assume 950k-1 million is where the next coach will start off too.

Huge difference was Cal was an experienced HC...took a Div I team to the Final Four...coached in the NBA...where as Pastner was never a head coach...and that wasMemphis' biggest mistake...as they were, maybe still are, a "power team" (i.e. Top 25-30), where they could have, with the right offer, secured an EXPERIENCED HC to take over their solid program...but they choose to go for the "next guy left on Cal's bench".

don't forget that Memphis offered the job to Mike Anderson (Mizzou at the time), Tim Floyd (USC at the time), Scott Drew (Baylor), and Leonard Hamilton (FSU)

Pastner wasn't Memphis' first choice...Cal wanted us to hire Tony Barbee

Oh I know...but it also showed that then Memphis AD RC Johnson was ill-prepared to target specific coaches he knew he could get.

Most 'smart' AD's have a list of 3-5 coaches in EVERY SPORT at the ready to call in case they lose their HC in any sport unexpectedly...and I think RC was caught off guard...thinking "no way would Cal ever leave Memphis"...and he went into shotgun mode in "throwing out" offers.

(02-11-2016 11:22 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 11:06 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 11:02 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:49 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  I'll add the same qualifier, JMO, but Cal and Pastner both started out at Memphis with a contract that paid ~1 million

I think it's at least safe to assume 950k-1 million is where the next coach will start off too.

Huge difference was Cal was an experienced HC...took a Div I team to the Final Four...coached in the NBA...where as Pastner was never a head coach...and that wasMemphis' biggest mistake...as they were, maybe still are, a "power team" (i.e. Top 25-30), where they could have, with the right offer, secured an EXPERIENCED HC to take over their solid program...but they choose to go for the "next guy left on Cal's bench".

don't forget that Memphis offered the job to Mike Anderson (Mizzou at the time), Tim Floyd (USC at the time), Scott Drew (Baylor), and Leonard Hamilton (FSU)

Pastner wasn't Memphis' first choice...Cal wanted us to hire Tony Barbee

Oh I know...but it also showed that then Memphis AD RC Johnson was ill-prepared to target specific coaches he knew he could get.

Most 'smart' AD's have a list of 3-5 coaches in EVERY SPORT at the ready to call in case they lose their HC in any sport unexpectedly...and I think RC was caught off guard...thinking "no way would Cal ever leave Memphis"...and he went into shotgun mode in "throwing out" offers.

you would be wrong again, RC bragged for years about "the list in his desk" with names of solid coaches we could get...his list struck out because of him...not Memphis.

I'm glad he's gone and Tom Bowen is here.

I think Donnie is gone since it might be his last contract year. Probably just bad luck having your 2 PG out for the whole season. Now Adonys is out.

Not sure who is available in the $600k range.

(02-11-2016 11:36 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  I think Donnie is gone since it might be his last contract year. Probably just bad luck having your 2 PG out for the whole season. Now Adonys is out.

Not sure who is available in the $600k range.

I hear Josh Pastner might be available... And seeing as how Memphis is going to be paying the big $$$, he might work for peanuts.

(02-11-2016 11:59 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 11:36 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  I think Donnie is gone since it might be his last contract year. Probably just bad luck having your 2 PG out for the whole season. Now Adonys is out.

Not sure who is available in the $600k range.

I hear Josh Pastner might be available... And seeing as how Memphis is going to be paying the big $$$, he might work for peanuts.

Actually, as I think about that, it might actually work. UCF pays a small-ish salary and says to Pastner, "Hey man, here's a chance to stick it to your previous employer AND rehab your career in one fell swoop..."

(02-11-2016 10:37 AM)taximan1 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 09:43 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  I don't see the Dunphy on hot seat one. Prior to joining the AAC he went to 6 straight NCAAs. I just think Temple struggled once it got into the AAC, day in and day out tougher competition than the A10. Guy won 26 games last year, got snubbed by the NCAA. And is second in the conference right now behind the #16 team in the country.

He's had a couple WTF losses this year but contrary to what some may say, this was a step up in competition for them, just look at the record prior to the AAC and then their first year in the AAC. But they seem to be adjusting.

He's a terrible recruiter. He's a good to very good coach. But he's not the guy to take a team to the next level. Most of the fan base is not satisfied with being a potential bubble team each year. We never recruit legit big men. Lavoy Allen was a very defensive player, but not an offensive threat.

In the Philly area, with Vilenova in our backyard, and St Joes 5 miles away, its a very competitive environment

I’m a Dunphy supporter and I agree with all if this. From an X and O standpoint and getting the most out of players with average talent I would rank Dunphy as a very good. You don’t beat a top 10 ranked opponent 7 out of 8 years if you can’t coach.

As the face of the program, winning and losing with class and not doing anything stupid to embarrass Temple University I would say he is excellent, you couldn’t ask for a more respected guy in the college coaching community.

However his recruiting I would rate as poor, bordering on very poor. I think with his age and subdued style he has a really hard time relating to today’s top HS players. He promises them nothing more than an opportunity to compete for a starting job, he demands performance in the classroom, expects the kids to graduate and his defense and rebounding first philosophy is not one that the top HS kids want to hear, let alone one that considers himself a one and done type kid.

Right or wrong the bar is set pretty high for Temple basketball. Making the NCAA tournament is a given as the starting point, not the ending point. Temple needs to pull itself back to the point where the expectation is a real shot at the Sweet Sixteen each year not just being happy with being invited to the tournament.

With all that I don’t think he’s going anyplace until his contract runs out or he retires. I think the best we can hope for at this point is Aaron McKie takes a strong lead in recruiting and that his NBA experience is enough to entice some upper level kids to Temple. This on the bubble crap has gotten real old after just 2 seasons.

(02-11-2016 12:00 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 11:59 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 11:36 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  I think Donnie is gone since it might be his last contract year. Probably just bad luck having your 2 PG out for the whole season. Now Adonys is out.

Not sure who is available in the $600k range.

I hear Josh Pastner might be available... And seeing as how Memphis is going to be paying the big $$$, he might work for peanuts.

Actually, as I think about that, it might actually work. UCF pays a small-ish salary and says to Pastner, "Hey man, here's a chance to stick it to your previous employer AND rehab your career in one fell swoop..."

it would be a smart move on UCFs part...he's won over 160 games in 7 years at Memphis...coached NBA players like Will Barton and Elliot Williams...had asst coaches like Willis Wilson go on to be successful HCs.

UCF could do way worse...see USFs hire.

(02-11-2016 11:59 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I hear Josh Pastner might be available... And seeing as how Memphis is going to be paying the big $$$, he might work for peanuts.

Pastner is set to make $10.6 Million over the next 4 years...if he coaches at Memphis or not.

No clue if he takes a year (or two) off if he gets let go to find the "perfect" job...or, does he jump back in as a top assistant at a major program (with Calipari again?) and then wait for a top job to open up in the coming years.

UCF is currently spending $600,000 on their HC Salary...plus with very little else money available in the budget (i.e. no money for charter flights for road games, etc...).

There are no guarantees in coaching hires but the search team Memphis now has in place has done very, very well with those they have hired thus far. the process has worked amazingly well.

(02-11-2016 12:02 PM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:37 AM)taximan1 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 09:43 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  I don't see the Dunphy on hot seat one. Prior to joining the AAC he went to 6 straight NCAAs. I just think Temple struggled once it got into the AAC, day in and day out tougher competition than the A10. Guy won 26 games last year, got snubbed by the NCAA. And is second in the conference right now behind the #16 team in the country.

He's had a couple WTF losses this year but contrary to what some may say, this was a step up in competition for them, just look at the record prior to the AAC and then their first year in the AAC. But they seem to be adjusting.

He's a terrible recruiter. He's a good to very good coach. But he's not the guy to take a team to the next level. Most of the fan base is not satisfied with being a potential bubble team each year. We never recruit legit big men. Lavoy Allen was a very defensive player, but not an offensive threat.

In the Philly area, with Vilenova in our backyard, and St Joes 5 miles away, its a very competitive environment

I’m a Dunphy supporter and I agree with all if this. From an X and O standpoint and getting the most out of players with average talent I would rank Dunphy as a very good. You don’t beat a top 10 ranked opponent 7 out of 8 years if you can’t coach.

As the face of the program, winning and losing with class and not doing anything stupid to embarrass Temple University I would say he is excellent, you couldn’t ask for a more respected guy in the college coaching community.

However his recruiting I would rate as poor, bordering on very poor. I think with his age and subdued style he has a really hard time relating to today’s top HS players. He promises them nothing more than an opportunity to compete for a starting job, he demands performance in the classroom, expects the kids to graduate and his defense and rebounding first philosophy is not one that the top HS kids want to hear, let alone one that considers himself a one and done type kid.

Right or wrong the bar is set pretty high for Temple basketball. Making the NCAA tournament is a given as the starting point, not the ending point. Temple needs to pull itself back to the point where the expectation is a real shot at the Sweet Sixteen each year not just being happy with being invited to the tournament.

With all that I don’t think he’s going anyplace until his contract runs out or he retires. I think the best we can hope for at this point is Aaron McKie takes a strong lead in recruiting and that his NBA experience is enough to entice some upper level kids to Temple. This on the bubble crap has gotten real old after just 2 seasons.

Agreed about the recruiting aspects. Parents love him, AAU coaches not so much.

(02-11-2016 12:46 PM)TforTempleU Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 12:02 PM)NYCTUFan Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 10:37 AM)taximan1 Wrote:  

(02-11-2016 09:43 AM)DownEastPirate Wrote:  I don't see the Dunphy on hot seat one. Prior to joining the AAC he went to 6 straight NCAAs. I just think Temple struggled once it got into the AAC, day in and day out tougher competition than the A10. Guy won 26 games last year, got snubbed by the NCAA. And is second in the conference right now behind the #16 team in the country.

He's had a couple WTF losses this year but contrary to what some may say, this was a step up in competition for them, just look at the record prior to the AAC and then their first year in the AAC. But they seem to be adjusting.

He's a terrible recruiter. He's a good to very good coach. But he's not the guy to take a team to the next level. Most of the fan base is not satisfied with being a potential bubble team each year. We never recruit legit big men. Lavoy Allen was a very defensive player, but not an offensive threat.

In the Philly area, with Vilenova in our backyard, and St Joes 5 miles away, its a very competitive environment

I’m a Dunphy supporter and I agree with all if this. From an X and O standpoint and getting the most out of players with average talent I would rank Dunphy as a very good. You don’t beat a top 10 ranked opponent 7 out of 8 years if you can’t coach.

As the face of the program, winning and losing with class and not doing anything stupid to embarrass Temple University I would say he is excellent, you couldn’t ask for a more respected guy in the college coaching community.

However his recruiting I would rate as poor, bordering on very poor. I think with his age and subdued style he has a really hard time relating to today’s top HS players. He promises them nothing more than an opportunity to compete for a starting job, he demands performance in the classroom, expects the kids to graduate and his defense and rebounding first philosophy is not one that the top HS kids want to hear, let alone one that considers himself a one and done type kid.

Right or wrong the bar is set pretty high for Temple basketball. Making the NCAA tournament is a given as the starting point, not the ending point. Temple needs to pull itself back to the point where the expectation is a real shot at the Sweet Sixteen each year not just being happy with being invited to the tournament.

With all that I don’t think he’s going anyplace until his contract runs out or he retires. I think the best we can hope for at this point is Aaron McKie takes a strong lead in recruiting and that his NBA experience is enough to entice some upper level kids to Temple. This on the bubble crap has gotten real old after just 2 seasons.

Agreed about the recruiting aspects. Parents love him, AAU coaches not so much.

You bring up a really good point about the parents. I feel like for Temple to get a high level kid the parents need to really be involved in the process. If the parents put a priority on being sure their kid is going to class and getting a solid education i feel like they will push for Temple. As far as the AAU coaches, i would imagine that relationship would be like oil and water.

(02-11-2016 11:07 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  I won't go so far as to say that his seat is even warm yet, but UC fans are becoming disenchanted with Mick Cronin... If this team doesn't make the NCAA tournament and at least get out of the first round, things will start getting really nasty.

I would agree there are a number of fans who are disenchanted with Mick. I have raised the point before but I think 50% of our fan base loves him (I mean think he is one of the best in the country and wants to give him a lifetime contract--- incidentally most of them post on boards like this, BCJ and on other social sites) and then another 50% are ready to move on. Whenever I am at a game I always seem to be surrounded by people in one or the other camps who end up getting mad at each other at some point.

All this being said, I don't think Mick is going anywhere anytime soon. He has five years left on his contract. I don't know the buyout situation. I do believe Dr. Ono really likes Mick so if the AD was ready to move on I don't know if he would have the ability to pull the trigger.

Personally I am in no hurry to can the guy unless the right candidate became available. I do think there needs to be some changes in the assistant ranks. The same group of guys have been here for most of his tenure and I question their ability to recruit and develop players.

I'd be okay with Underwood, but no thanks on Hasse. Goodman seems to think Hasse wouldn't be a good fit. He also said Pastner wasn't a good fit back in 2011 and he wasn't wrong then.