We have had our share of arrests in football over the last few years.

Like I said, I won't cast stones. Especially when the glass house can come down around my ears with one bad decision of a bunch of potential idiot 18-24 year olds on my own team. If this was not a former UC coach, I wonder how big of a deal it would be around here, anyways.

As I said, I hope they all fry if the allegations are true.

(02-25-2016 10:03 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Nothing as serious as this but we have definitely had our time in the limelight with arrests.

If this is legit, I hope they all fry. I'll not cast stones, though. Not after what we went through for a long time in Clifton Heights.

The story of a certain assistant misbehaving in the frozen foods section of a Kroger comes to mind...

But I will agree with the sigh of relief that Butch ain't our problem now. I hope he has no lingering affections for the Bearcats nor any delusions of perhaps being able to come back here. Thankfully that bridge got blown up.

I think he's pretty well "toast" at UT. I don't know where he goes from there...back to the MAC probably. So long as it isn't MoO U, I don't really care much.

(02-25-2016 11:01 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 10:03 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Nothing as serious as this but we have definitely had our time in the limelight with arrests.

If this is legit, I hope they all fry. I'll not cast stones, though. Not after what we went through for a long time in Clifton Heights.

The story of a certain assistant misbehaving in the frozen foods section of a Kroger comes to mind...

But I will agree with the sigh of relief that Butch ain't our problem now. I hope he has no lingering affections for the Bearcats nor any delusions of perhaps being able to come back here. Thankfully that bridge got blown up.

I think he's pretty well "toast" at UT. I don't know where he goes from there...back to the MAC probably. So long as it isn't MoO U, I don't really care much.

Not sure if he's toast at UT or not. Even if he is he will do better than the MAC. Could easily see him go to Purdue after they can their coach this year (the Boilers wanted him a few years ago remember). If nothing else he can go to USF after taggart takes a better job. Butch has Tampa ties and it seems like that is the resting spot for a number of UC assistants.

(02-24-2016 09:46 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 09:38 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 07:07 PM)rtaylor Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 05:53 PM)InspectorHound Wrote:  "Ex-Vol Drae Bowles alleges in affidavit that Butch Jones called him a traitor for helping rape victim. "

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/c.../80851232/

Wow, that is not good for UT.

UT? If this plays out the wrong way, Butch Jones will be damn near unhirable for anyone but Florida or Ohio State.

... or UL. Because you know, their coaches now.

Or fla state. because you know, they skrong

I don't see him being toast by any means at UT. In fact, I think he is likely going to file suit against Drae Bowles for defamation of character as Bowles told an independent investigation as was as testifying to a grand jury in 2014 that the retaliation allegations were false and Jones handled everything properly.

(02-25-2016 10:26 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  We have had our share of arrests in football over the last few years.

Like I said, I won't cast stones. Especially when the glass house can come down around my ears with one bad decision of a bunch of potential idiot 18-24 year olds on my own team. If this was not a former UC coach, I wonder how big of a deal it would be around here, anyways.

As I said, I hope they all fry if the allegations are true.

Rape is more than a bad decision. Picking the lasagna over the veal...bad decision. Rape ...brutal crime


There are bad decisions but if they catch players from my school raping girls. shut it down. Kill the program

(02-25-2016 09:35 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 09:09 AM)FLIP Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 08:05 AM)Fubar Wrote:  http://www.si.com/college-football/2016/...on-manning

Ouch, and we thought UC's athletic department had issues. Was never a big fan of Butch, this just solidifies my opinion.

What UC issues are you referring to?

If you are talking about an ineffectual football coach or a basketball coach that seems to not create offense or a terrible woman's basketball coach or a bad conference, then we have problems, but do not conflate those issues with the TN issues.

Our issues are of bad performance; TN's issues are criminal behavior and condoning and attempted cover up of criminal behavior.

Problems are problems, just that UC's current ones are not criminal in nature................. unless you count wins and loses.

I think Jones is toast. At universities, rape isn't a big deal until it's made public, and then they'll do everything possible to prove they're serious about it.

If in fact Jones did this, he's scum.

(02-25-2016 12:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  I think Jones is toast. At universities, rape isn't a big deal until it's made public, and then they'll do everything possible to prove they're serious about it.

If in fact Jones did this, he's scum.

Except the accuser made statements to a grand jury and to an independent investigator that are the exact opposite of what he is saying in this lawsuit. So he's a liar one way or another and obviously not very reliable.

(02-25-2016 11:01 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 10:03 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Nothing as serious as this but we have definitely had our time in the limelight with arrests.

If this is legit, I hope they all fry. I'll not cast stones, though. Not after what we went through for a long time in Clifton Heights.

The story of a certain assistant misbehaving in the frozen foods section of a Kroger comes to mind...

But I will agree with the sigh of relief that Butch ain't our problem now. I hope he has no lingering affections for the Bearcats nor any delusions of perhaps being able to come back here. Thankfully that bridge got blown up.

I think he's pretty well "toast" at UT. I don't know where he goes from there...back to the MAC probably. So long as it isn't MoO U, I don't really care much.

He wouldn't fall all the way back to the MAC. Someone would absolutely hire him, likely another P5 school. He is much more highly thought of as a head coach nationally than he is by UC fans.

(02-25-2016 01:49 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  I think Jones is toast. At universities, rape isn't a big deal until it's made public, and then they'll do everything possible to prove they're serious about it.

If in fact Jones did this, he's scum.

Except the accuser made statements to a grand jury and to an independent investigator that are the exact opposite of what he is saying in this lawsuit. So he's a liar one way or another and obviously not very reliable.

Bowles might have denied a lot of the alleged actions to reporters or investigators but I doubt anyone commenting knows exactly what Bowles actually said in his grand jury testimony (which is supposed to be sealed). But I think Butch might have a real credibility problem of his own. Didn't he just shake his head "no" when asked by the press whether Bowles was attacked by another player as retribution for helping the alleged rape victim? IIRC, supposedly he was attacked twice by multiple players and at least one incident was witnessed by multiple individuals perhaps including a coach (coaches). And apparently at least one of the players has admitted the assault.

(02-25-2016 02:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 01:49 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  I think Jones is toast. At universities, rape isn't a big deal until it's made public, and then they'll do everything possible to prove they're serious about it.

If in fact Jones did this, he's scum.

Except the accuser made statements to a grand jury and to an independent investigator that are the exact opposite of what he is saying in this lawsuit. So he's a liar one way or another and obviously not very reliable.

I've seen several UT apologists claim that they know he said that in his grand jury testimony (which is supposed to be sealed), but I've never seen a link - much less a reputable one if it did happen. I think Butch has a real credibility problem. Didn't he shake his head "no" when asked by the press whether Bowles was attacked by another player as retribution? Supposedly there are multiple witnesses to the contrary about at least 3 players attacking Bowles and one player has publicly admitted doing so.

There was a verbal confrontation that took place between Bowles and a couple of other players. Butch was asked if he was physically attacked by other players. And that answer is no, which Bowles also has publicly stated previously was indeed the case.

It looks and sounds like all this stuff is way over BJ's head, man what a mess.

(02-25-2016 02:16 PM)Tim Johnson Wrote:  It looks and sounds like all this stuff is way over BJ's head, man what a mess.

It is. It's a mess that has festered for years at UT. It almost all gets back to the creation of the Women's AD over a decade ago, where there was absolutely no accountability and they were totally mismanaging funds and paying people for not doing anything. When Dave Hart came in a few years back as AD from Alabama the Athletic Department was pretty much broke and a lot of money was missing and unaccounted for. So he combined the women's and men's AD back into one and fired a bunch of employees that had zero responsibilities for years and years and it caused a huge firestorm. That's the biggest issue in all of this. A lot of disgruntled former employees who have been doing all they can behind the scenes for years now to destroy the men's athletic programs.

(02-25-2016 02:03 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 02:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 01:49 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  I think Jones is toast. At universities, rape isn't a big deal until it's made public, and then they'll do everything possible to prove they're serious about it.

If in fact Jones did this, he's scum.

Except the accuser made statements to a grand jury and to an independent investigator that are the exact opposite of what he is saying in this lawsuit. So he's a liar one way or another and obviously not very reliable.

I've seen several UT apologists claim that they know he said that in his grand jury testimony (which is supposed to be sealed), but I've never seen a link - much less a reputable one if it did happen. I think Butch has a real credibility problem. Didn't he shake his head "no" when asked by the press whether Bowles was attacked by another player as retribution? Supposedly there are multiple witnesses to the contrary about at least 3 players attacking Bowles and one player has publicly admitted doing so.

There was a verbal confrontation that took place between Bowles and a couple of other players. Butch was asked if he was physically attacked by other players. And that answer is no, which Bowles also has publicly stated previously was indeed the case.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...ult-victim

This report states that he was punched in the mouth by a team mate.

(02-25-2016 02:03 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 02:00 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 01:49 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-25-2016 12:35 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  I think Jones is toast. At universities, rape isn't a big deal until it's made public, and then they'll do everything possible to prove they're serious about it.

If in fact Jones did this, he's scum.

Except the accuser made statements to a grand jury and to an independent investigator that are the exact opposite of what he is saying in this lawsuit. So he's a liar one way or another and obviously not very reliable.

I've seen several UT apologists claim that they know he said that in his grand jury testimony (which is supposed to be sealed), but I've never seen a link - much less a reputable one if it did happen. I think Butch has a real credibility problem. Didn't he shake his head "no" when asked by the press whether Bowles was attacked by another player as retribution? Supposedly there are multiple witnesses to the contrary about at least 3 players attacking Bowles and one player has publicly admitted doing so.

There was a verbal confrontation that took place between Bowles and a couple of other players. Butch was asked if he was physically attacked by other players. And that answer is no, which Bowles also has publicly stated previously was indeed the case.

But other witnesses apparently say differently as does one of the players in a police report allegedly and Bowles himself in a sworn affidavit. I doubt any of us knows the whole story, so we'll just have to see how it all plays out. But I think Butch is in a lot more jeopardy than you seem to if all or most of this turns out to be true. UT will have to can him and no P5 would scoop him up as HC; at least not right away imo.

The problem for CBJ is that with the way things are now in this country a lot of political pressure will undoubtedly fall on the university due to all of these issue. There will be a lot of groups within and outside of UT screaming bloody murder (I am talking all the SJW types who will be protesting, taking pictures of themselves with their mouths taped shut, talking about "rape-culture" etc.). Someone's going to have to be the scapegoat in all of this-- will it be Jones or will it be the AD?

(02-25-2016 02:40 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  The problem for CBJ is that with the way things are now in this country a lot of political pressure will undoubtedly fall on the university due to all of these issue. There will be a lot of groups within and outside of UT screaming bloody murder (I am talking all the SJW types who will be protesting, taking pictures of themselves with their mouths taped shut, talking about "rape-culture" etc.). Someone's going to have to be the scapegoat in all of this-- will it be Jones or will it be the AD?

Yep that's the biggest problem. With Social media in this day and age, you are guilty until proven innocent, especially when it comes to this kind of stuff. The whole Duke Lacrosse scandal was perfect proof of that. I also have a feeling that with this lawsuit and the FSU one that was just settled, this kind of stuff is going to be springing up at Universities all over the country going forward.

Lawsuit: Tennessee coach Butch Jones called player a 'traitor'
Nate Rau and Matt Slovin, mslovin@tennessean.com 1:57 p.m. EST February 25, 2016


University of Tennessee football coach Butch Jones told one of his players he “betrayed the team” after the wide receiver helped a woman who said she was raped by two other football players, according to a new legal filing in a sweeping lawsuit filed by six women against Tennessee.

Sophomore Drae Bowles “broke down and cried” after speaking with his coach, the lawsuit said.

Jones later called Bowles back to apologize for calling him “a traitor to the team,” according to the suit.

The two calls with Jones came after Bowles was punched in the mouth and bloodied by teammate Curt Maggitt as retribution inside the UT locker room, according to the new filing.

Bowles, who transferred to UT Chattanooga shortly after the alleged November 2014 incidents, provided the account of events in a sworn declaration filed in federal court in Nashville. In the statement, Bowles acknowledged he might be called as a witness and is willing to testify in the case.

In a statement late Wednesday, Jones denied the allegations and called them "false attacks on my character."

"The assertion that I ever attempted to belittle or demean a young man for taking action to help another person is absolutely false," Jones said in the statement issued through the university.

"To the contrary, I did all I could to assist the former student in question. During the course of the judicial process, campus officials, as well as the young man's own words, will clearly establish that I have done nothing wrong," Jones said. "I will fight all of these false attacks on my character, and I know that once this process has been completed, my reputation will be affirmed."

The new legal filing is the latest in the ongoing federal lawsuit that has brought renewed scrutiny to UT’s athletics department. Also on Wednesday, two new women claiming they were also sexually assaulted by football players joined the lawsuit.

In a prepared statement by attorney Bill Ramsey, the university defended its response to sexual assault allegations on campus.

"The facts, as opposed to allegations in a complaint, will demonstrate that the University acted properly in the matters at issue," Ramsey said. "We have continuously worked hard to improve our processes and our procedures to ensure that we are doing all that we can to prevent incidents of assault, to support victims of assault and to pursue justice while ensuring due process for those accused. We will vigorously defend all claims in the amended complaint."

At a news conference in Knoxville on Tuesday, Jones was flanked by head coaches for each UT sports team when he defended the culture within the athletics department. On Saturday, Jones shook his head when asked whether Bowles had been assaulted.

According to the lawsuit, Jones and Maggitt were upset at Bowles because he helped a woman who said she was sexually assaulted by UT football players A.J. Johnson and Michael Williams.

Bowles found the woman, a friend of his identified in the lawsuit as Jane Doe IV, crying and hyperventilating in a parking lot in the early morning hours of Nov. 16, 2014, according to the lawsuit. They called 911 and arranged to meet an ambulance at Volunteer Hall.

Later that day, Maggitt confronted Bowles and “asked accusing questions,” the filing said.

“Bowles told Maggitt what had happened. Maggitt became violently upset, said that Bowles was trying to f*** up A.J. and suddenly punched Bowles in the mouth with great force, causing Bowles’ lip to bleed,” the filing said.

Bowles fought back before teammates broke up the fight, the filing said.

The next day, Bowles was confronted a second time. Bowles went to Smokey’s Sports Grill, the campus dining hall for athletes, and purposefully sat alone. Teammates Geraldo Orta and Marlin Lane confronted him, according to the new documents.

Before another fight broke out, football strength coach Brandon Myles physically intervened and held back Orta and Lane, according to the lawsuit. Lane and Orta followed Bowles as he left the dining hall, but Myles again intervened, the suit said.

Orta later told police that where he came from, “people got shot” for such betrayals, according to the lawsuit. Williams also told police Orta put a “hit” out on Bowles for his role in helping the alleged victim, according to the lawsuit, which cited a Knoxville Police Department incident report.

Johnson and Williams were charged with aggravated rape in the case. They’ve pleaded not guilty and their trials are set for later this year.

Knoxville police have declined to release records on Johnson and Williams. The Knoxville News Sentinel has filed suit to make those records public.

Bowles was a four-star recruit out of Jackson (Tenn.) Christian School but never caught a pass for the Vols. He appeared in 13 games over two seasons before arriving at Chattanooga, where he caught two passes in four games in 2015.

Bowles and his father, Dexter, a captain in the Madison County (Tenn.) Sheriff’s Office, were on the witness list for the February 2015 grand jury proceedings in the case against Johnson and Williams.

In a Facebook message with The Tennessean on Feb. 10, Orta denied putting a “hit” out on Bowles.

According to the lawsuit, Maggitt admitted to police that he assaulted Bowles. He was never charged with a crime. Orta told police that Jones “instructed the team to stay away from Bowles,” who was given time away from the program, the lawsuit says.

Jones did not discipline Orta, Lane or Maggitt, according to the lawsuit.

Two plaintiffs, Jane Doe IV, who claims she was assaulted, and her roommate Jane Doe V, who witnessed the fight in the dining hall, say the treatment and shunning of Bowles played a major role in their decision to leave UT out of fear for their own safety, according to the lawsuit.

“Drae Bowles had acted with the utmost kindness and strength of character toward Jane Doe IV, her friends and Jane Doe V,” the plaintiffs claim in their updated lawsuit. “For his kindness and courage he was beaten up, called a traitor by his head football coach and ostracized from the team by Coach Jones and other players.

“Maggitt continued to be touted as a team leader and with Orta and Lane celebrated a bowl victory by posing for cameras flashing (alleged) rapist A.J. Johnson’s number 45 with their hands and fingers,” the lawsuit says.

Reach Nate Rau at 615-259-8094 and on Twitter @tnnaterau and Matt Slovin at mslovin@tennessean.com and on Twitter @MattSlovin. Tennessean reporter Anita Wadhwani contributed to this story.


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/c.../80851232/

More I read of this, more I think this Bowles fella is going to have some 'splainin to do in front of a court reporter in a depo in the very near future.