http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl.../79852754/

Talks about his various ailments-the more typical ones of football players than CTE. I remember when I was a teenager and I saw someone in their 30-50s limping, I thought-football player.

On Sunday, Joe Montana will handle the coin toss at Super Bowl 50. It’s one of the things he can do without feeling pain, which is the daily cost of his Hall of Fame football career.....

Serves him right [bitterly angered over the 1979 Cotton Bowl].

But seriously he, like Randle El and numerous other players, serve as a testament as to why football participation will likely decline in the coming decades.

(02-05-2016 09:46 AM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl.../79852754/

Talks about his various ailments-the more typical ones of football players than CTE. I remember when I was a teenager and I saw someone in their 30-50s limping, I thought-football player.

On Sunday, Joe Montana will handle the coin toss at Super Bowl 50. It’s one of the things he can do without feeling pain, which is the daily cost of his Hall of Fame football career.....

He sounds like most 60 year olds who worked for a living. My wife had her neck fused last year, I am trying to hold off on it for 2 to 5 years when I retire. now am 60. I have arthritis in one hand, and a bad knee and ankle. The only big difference is he got to do something that was fun, and get paid millions, while people cheered for him, while the average worker, works in a hot miserable job making thousands, with no one noticing their efforts. I am 60, I really can't run no more, can't play basket ball, or snow board. So you find what you can do and enjoy those things, Ride my motorcycle, Play music with friends, and chase the wife around the house, and the good thing is, she cant run no more either.

Take an x-ray of the back of any man 50 or older who worked a job with much lifting and standing and you will pretty much always see significant degeneration of the spine. Same as true of women though usually shows up earlier.

A hospital I think in Houston pulled in a group of guard and reserve soldiers before deployment to the Middle East and did imaging studies of their spines then again when they returned a year later. Across the board notable degeneration and disc compression from wearing body armor and carrying the heavier packs used today (roughly double the weight carried ashore on D-Day not counting the armor).

That is the reality. These guys run a great deal, lift a great deal of weight and if someone followed a similar training scheme even without the collisions, you would see a degree of damage later in life.

(02-05-2016 10:44 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Take an x-ray of the back of any man 50 or older who worked a job with much lifting and standing and you will pretty much always see significant degeneration of the spine. Same as true of women though usually shows up earlier.

A hospital I think in Houston pulled in a group of guard and reserve soldiers before deployment to the Middle East and did imaging studies of their spines then again when they returned a year later. Across the board notable degeneration and disc compression from wearing body armor and carrying the heavier packs used today (roughly double the weight carried ashore on D-Day not counting the armor).

That is the reality. These guys run a great deal, lift a great deal of weight and if someone followed a similar training scheme even without the collisions, you would see a degree of damage later in life.

Just about every orthopedic surgeon and neurosurgeon I have ever deposed says the same thing:

"Man was not meant to walk upright." I have heard that about 200 times.

Gravity is a *****, along with age.

P.S. That Cotton Bowl comeback is one of my favorite all time sports moments...

Yea...most 59 year olds I know are just skipping around with no pain.

Yes, I get football is tough on the body.....ever see the injury rate of cheerleaders? It is high....same with soccer. It's never mentioned....why?

There is more money in going after the big boy. It's ALWAYS about $$$...not justice or even a concern about safety (if it was, would folks being going after the X games as well?).

(02-05-2016 11:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 10:44 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Take an x-ray of the back of any man 50 or older who worked a job with much lifting and standing and you will pretty much always see significant degeneration of the spine. Same as true of women though usually shows up earlier.

A hospital I think in Houston pulled in a group of guard and reserve soldiers before deployment to the Middle East and did imaging studies of their spines then again when they returned a year later. Across the board notable degeneration and disc compression from wearing body armor and carrying the heavier packs used today (roughly double the weight carried ashore on D-Day not counting the armor).

That is the reality. These guys run a great deal, lift a great deal of weight and if someone followed a similar training scheme even without the collisions, you would see a degree of damage later in life.

Just about every orthopedic surgeon and neurosurgeon I have ever deposed says the same thing:

"Man was not meant to walk upright." I have heard that about 200 times.

Gravity is a *****, along with age.

P.S. That Cotton Bowl comeback is one of my favorite all time sports moments...

I got on a plane with it 34-12 in the 4th quarter. Couldn't believe it when I landed and found out ND had won.

(02-05-2016 11:23 AM)nole Wrote:  Yea...most 59 year olds I know are just skipping around with no pain.

Yes, I get football is tough on the body.....ever see the injury rate of cheerleaders? It is high....same with soccer. It's never mentioned....why?

There is more money in going after the big boy. It's ALWAYS about $$$...not justice or even a concern about safety (if it was, would folks being going after the X games as well?).

Well he's got more than just a little arthritis. And I'm sure a lot is the training, not just the hits in the games.

C2 (#2),

Why not instead say "... serves as a testament to why better rules, better technology and better science will help to prevent these disabilities in the future" ??

Part of it I'm is how long some of these players play. Joe spend 14 years and those hits hurt more and are harder to recover when you are in the mid-30's. Wonder if we'll be seeing some sort of either roster expansion to rotate players more or some sort of time limit (like 10 years) you can play with some of these type of hard contact sports farther down the road.

(02-05-2016 01:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Part of it I'm is how long some of these players play. Joe spend 14 years and those hits hurt more and are harder to recover when you are in the mid-30's. Wonder if we'll be seeing some sort of either roster expansion to rotate players more or some sort of time limit (like 10 years) you can play with some of these type of hard contact sports farther down the road.

And the guys who are 30 and older played with less developed equipment, less scientific ideas about training, and fewer medical evaluation precautions.

It will be interesting to see how today's 16 year old is at 40 vs the guy who is 40 today.

(02-05-2016 01:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 01:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Part of it I'm is how long some of these players play. Joe spend 14 years and those hits hurt more and are harder to recover when you are in the mid-30's. Wonder if we'll be seeing some sort of either roster expansion to rotate players more or some sort of time limit (like 10 years) you can play with some of these type of hard contact sports farther down the road.

And the guys who are 30 and older played with less developed equipment, less scientific ideas about training, and fewer medical evaluation precautions.

It will be interesting to see how today's 16 year old is at 40 vs the guy who is 40 today.

That is quite true and the linemen of today compared to back then are more much athletic and bigger in a few ways. It is an interesting observation how athletes have progress over the course of 100 years with training, nutrition, equipment, medical advances..etc. How much larger, quicker and agile athletes have become and will continue to be.

Especially when you compare to race horses. Their training and development methods I believe are unchanged for quite some time. And the performance numbers (lap speeds) don't improve too much over time.

Humans have evolved training and development methods continuously.

Life is tough. There will be pain, be it mental or physical. We can only hope to reduce the amount, not completely eliminate.

(02-05-2016 01:44 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 01:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 01:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Part of it I'm is how long some of these players play. Joe spend 14 years and those hits hurt more and are harder to recover when you are in the mid-30's. Wonder if we'll be seeing some sort of either roster expansion to rotate players more or some sort of time limit (like 10 years) you can play with some of these type of hard contact sports farther down the road.

And the guys who are 30 and older played with less developed equipment, less scientific ideas about training, and fewer medical evaluation precautions.

It will be interesting to see how today's 16 year old is at 40 vs the guy who is 40 today.

That is quite true and the linemen of today compared to back then are more much athletic and bigger in a few ways. It is an interesting observation how athletes have progress over the course of 100 years with training, nutrition, equipment, medical advances..etc. How much larger, quicker and agile athletes have become and will continue to be.

The unbeaten Texas MNC team of 1969 only had one lineman over 210 lbs. I've heard of high schools in Texas that average 300 lbs on their offensive line.

(02-05-2016 03:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 01:44 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 01:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 01:17 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Part of it I'm is how long some of these players play. Joe spend 14 years and those hits hurt more and are harder to recover when you are in the mid-30's. Wonder if we'll be seeing some sort of either roster expansion to rotate players more or some sort of time limit (like 10 years) you can play with some of these type of hard contact sports farther down the road.

And the guys who are 30 and older played with less developed equipment, less scientific ideas about training, and fewer medical evaluation precautions.

It will be interesting to see how today's 16 year old is at 40 vs the guy who is 40 today.

That is quite true and the linemen of today compared to back then are more much athletic and bigger in a few ways. It is an interesting observation how athletes have progress over the course of 100 years with training, nutrition, equipment, medical advances..etc. How much larger, quicker and agile athletes have become and will continue to be.

The unbeaten Texas MNC team of 1969 only had one lineman over 210 lbs. I've heard of high schools in Texas that average 300 lbs on their offensive line.

Yup. This to me is why these guys today will probably be even worse off in some of the injuries and long-term effects, primarily that of the head/neck and knees.

(02-05-2016 11:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Just about every orthopedic surgeon and neurosurgeon I have ever deposed says the same thing:

"Man was not meant to walk upright." I have heard that about 200 times.

Gravity is a *****, along with age.

P.S. That Cotton Bowl comeback is one of my favorite all time sports moments...

You mean when the Notre Dame player caught the ball out of bounds to "win" it?

(02-05-2016 12:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  C2 (#2),

Why not instead say "... serves as a testament to why better rules, better technology and better science will help to prevent these disabilities in the future" ??

No amount of science or rules changes (rules are broken, intentionally or accidentally) is gonna change the violent nature of football. People will still play it but not nearly as many as they used to.

See below.

(02-05-2016 02:10 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Life is tough. There will be pain, be it mental or physical. We can only hope to reduce the amount, not completely eliminate.

This

I disagree wholeheartedly that science and technology can't change the number of former football players who lose quality of life due to disabilities related to the game.

I can't even begin to understand why you're so certain that they can't.

(02-06-2016 01:21 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 11:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Just about every orthopedic surgeon and neurosurgeon I have ever deposed says the same thing:

"Man was not meant to walk upright." I have heard that about 200 times.

Gravity is a *****, along with age.

P.S. That Cotton Bowl comeback is one of my favorite all time sports moments...

You mean when the Notre Dame player caught the ball out of bounds to "win" it?

(02-05-2016 12:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  C2 (#2),

Why not instead say "... serves as a testament to why better rules, better technology and better science will help to prevent these disabilities in the future" ??

No amount of science or rules changes (rules are broken, intentionally or accidentally) is gonna change the violent nature of football. People will still play it but not nearly as many as they used to.

See below.

(02-05-2016 02:10 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Life is tough. There will be pain, be it mental or physical. We can only hope to reduce the amount, not completely eliminate.

This

Yep, Kris Haines who made a great legal catch to win the game.

(02-06-2016 04:21 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 01:21 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 11:03 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Just about every orthopedic surgeon and neurosurgeon I have ever deposed says the same thing:

"Man was not meant to walk upright." I have heard that about 200 times.

Gravity is a *****, along with age.

P.S. That Cotton Bowl comeback is one of my favorite all time sports moments...

You mean when the Notre Dame player caught the ball out of bounds to "win" it?

(02-05-2016 12:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  C2 (#2),

Why not instead say "... serves as a testament to why better rules, better technology and better science will help to prevent these disabilities in the future" ??

No amount of science or rules changes (rules are broken, intentionally or accidentally) is gonna change the violent nature of football. People will still play it but not nearly as many as they used to.

See below.

(02-05-2016 02:10 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Life is tough. There will be pain, be it mental or physical. We can only hope to reduce the amount, not completely eliminate.

This

Yep, Kris Haines who made a great legal catch to win the game.

NOT!!!