(02-18-2016 01:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Tom: GREAT analysis of why they're content, and better off, in FCS. One question though: isn't Philly big enough for 2 FBS programs?

Philly's only D-I FBS type program, Temple, dropped down in status in the early 1940's and basically played a D-II schedule until 1971b or 72- This was during the time television was boosting college FB with live games. Temple completely missed that boat, relegating them to the non-interest category.

Penn had a big following and 55K+ stadium, but they also dropped down, so there was a complete vacuum in terms of interest, so the Philly media paid attention to the only FBS level game around, PSU. Paterno turned that pony in to a show horse and made it the destination school for high school ballers. Meanwhile, when Temple got back in the FBS/DI-A level in the early 70's they had a few good years and then completely tanked after 1985 or so for the next 20+ years. A consistently good Temple could attract enough casual fans (non-alums) to have a decent chance of succeeding. This past year shows what was possible. Sustained success is what Temple needs to capture the city's attention (and by the city, I mean the 50 mile radius around the town that capture the media reach).

(02-19-2016 12:54 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 01:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Tom: GREAT analysis of why they're content, and better off, in FCS. One question though: isn't Philly big enough for 2 FBS programs?

Philly's only D-I FBS type program, Temple, dropped down in status in the early 1940's and basically played a D-II schedule until 1971b or 72- This was during the time television was boosting college FB with live games. Temple completely missed that boat, relegating them to the non-interest category.

Penn had a big following and 55K+ stadium, but they also dropped down, so there was a complete vacuum in terms of interest, so the Philly media paid attention to the only FBS level game around, PSU. Paterno turned that pony in to a show horse and made it the destination school for high school ballers. Meanwhile, when Temple got back in the FBS/DI-A level in the early 70's they had a few good years and then completely tanked after 1985 or so for the next 20+ years. A consistently good Temple could attract enough casual fans (non-alums) to have a decent chance of succeeding. This past year shows what was possible. Sustained success is what Temple needs to capture the city's attention (and by the city, I mean the 50 mile radius around the town that capture the media reach).

Sustained success is a must at Temple. And there's enough pieces to make it work. Especially if you can leverage your huge student and alumni base. You have advantages that Villanova cannot leverage.

But you'll always be fighting the Eagles. And for a while at least, your history.

That being said, you guys have come a long way in the last 15 years.

(02-03-2016 10:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 09:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Has Villanova expressed any inclination to upgrade to FBS? What about Georgetown?

NO and NO.

Unless they somehow both get direct invitations to the ACC or another P5 conference, then there's zero reason for them to do so. They're getting more TV money in the Big East for just basketball than the AAC is receiving for both football and basketball.

That's a big check just for hoops. The CAA is a solid football conference and it showed this FCS playoff season

(02-19-2016 11:07 AM)Policiious Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 10:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 09:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Has Villanova expressed any inclination to upgrade to FBS? What about Georgetown?

NO and NO.

Unless they somehow both get direct invitations to the ACC or another P5 conference, then there's zero reason for them to do so. They're getting more TV money in the Big East for just basketball than the AAC is receiving for both football and basketball.

That's a big check just for hoops. The CAA is a solid football conference and it showed this FCS playoff season

Yes, CAA football is a solid/top FCS football conference.

It's history is connected for the ruling that there can no longer be football only conferences. The Yankee Football conference needed a home. America East could not do it so the A10 reluctantly took it in. (The A10 could have required Fordham to bring their football from the Patriot league as a condition to join.) Some America East schools did try to make a bid for the football conference but the CAA then took in Hofstra and NorthEastern from America East. Then the CAA approached former all sports member, Richmond, to back the their take over of the football conference.

(02-19-2016 12:54 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 01:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Tom: GREAT analysis of why they're content, and better off, in FCS. One question though: isn't Philly big enough for 2 FBS programs?

Philly's only D-I FBS type program, Temple, dropped down in status in the early 1940's and basically played a D-II schedule until 1971b or 72- This was during the time television was boosting college FB with live games. Temple completely missed that boat, relegating them to the non-interest category.

Penn had a big following and 55K+ stadium, but they also dropped down, so there was a complete vacuum in terms of interest, so the Philly media paid attention to the only FBS level game around, PSU. Paterno turned that pony in to a show horse and made it the destination school for high school ballers. Meanwhile, when Temple got back in the FBS/DI-A level in the early 70's they had a few good years and then completely tanked after 1985 or so for the next 20+ years. A consistently good Temple could attract enough casual fans (non-alums) to have a decent chance of succeeding. This past year shows what was possible. Sustained success is what Temple needs to capture the city's attention (and by the city, I mean the 50 mile radius around the town that capture the media reach).

I read somewhere on the Internet that the ACC, at the time of its formation in the early 1950s, expressed interest in inviting Penn as a founding member because of its academics and football under HC George Munger. But Penn's new president chose instead to de-emphasize football and join the Ivy League.

(02-19-2016 12:54 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 01:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Tom: GREAT analysis of why they're content, and better off, in FCS. One question though: isn't Philly big enough for 2 FBS programs?

Philly's only D-I FBS type program, Temple, dropped down in status in the early 1940's and basically played a D-II schedule until 1971b or 72- This was during the time television was boosting college FB with live games. Temple completely missed that boat, relegating them to the non-interest category.

Penn had a big following and 55K+ stadium, but they also dropped down, so there was a complete vacuum in terms of interest, so the Philly media paid attention to the only FBS level game around, PSU. Paterno turned that pony in to a show horse and made it the destination school for high school ballers. Meanwhile, when Temple got back in the FBS/DI-A level in the early 70's they had a few good years and then completely tanked after 1985 or so for the next 20+ years. A consistently good Temple could attract enough casual fans (non-alums) to have a decent chance of succeeding. This past year shows what was possible. Sustained success is what Temple needs to capture the city's attention (and by the city, I mean the 50 mile radius around the town that capture the media reach).

Penn is a bad example because the entire Ivy League wanted to move down....

(02-19-2016 12:52 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  I read somewhere on the Internet that the ACC, at the time of its formation in the early 1950s, expressed interest in inviting Penn as a founding member because of its academics and football under HC George Munger. But Penn's new president chose instead to de-emphasize football and join the Ivy League.

De-emphasis wasn't Penn's choice. The change from the Ivies operating under an agreement about recruiting, academic standards, etc. to an athletic conference was to force Penn's hand regarding football. Here is Penn's schedule from 1953 the last season prior to the creation of the Ivy League:

Vanderbilt
Penn State
Cal
Ohio St.
Navy
Michigan
Notre Dame
Army
Cornell

Notice what's missing from the schedule? Michigan was the only road game the entire season. The local ABC affiliate broadcast every Penn home game and Franklin Field had 78k seats which were generally filled. H, Y & P decided it was time to force Penn back onto the reservation and Penn readily complied.

Regarding Temple ... the enrollment numbers are a bit misleading. Temple is one of the largest providers of professional and graduate education in the country. Temple had roughly 18k undergrads spread across three campuses 20 - 25 years ago. The university has been steadily increasing undergrad enrollment and consolidating it at main campus. There are now a little over 28k undergrads with something like 25k at main campus.

(02-20-2016 12:51 PM)lance99 Wrote:  Penn is a bad example because the entire Ivy League wanted to move down....

Ehh, not really. It's not as unified as that. Ivy considered Army and Navy for membership, and that would have allowed the entire conference to operate at D1A. And, remember that as recently as 2010, Ivy (or some number of its members) petitioned for a waiver to have its games with FBS schools count. Yale-Army still went through (more so because Army's AD really would want to be in that conference than anything that helped the players on the field that season).

They put their pants on one leg at a time just like the others. They just won't give folks the satisfaction acknowledging they do, in fact, operate like any other institution.

As for Villanova, and the Philadelphia region...it's been an interesting week on sports radio talking about Villanova hitting the top of the polls. It's true, what some have been remarking there, that it feels subdued and less infectious than when St. Joe's had that run a decade or so ago. I think many in the region can't identify with Villanova's self-draped elitism, and, there's still plenty of people to remind others where Villanova was as an institution, a Big 5 institution, 30-40 years ago.

Villanova, when it won the FCS title back in 2009, had a shot to become Philadelphia's college team of choice. They had the spotlight in 2009 and 2010. Not only did they not choose to be more open or transparent with this predicament, they continued to act like the stiffs they've become, barely acknowledging the matter publicly until they decided not to do so, putting down other institutions and conferences on their way out.

Honestly, I kind of hope the Ivies do decide to make a jump upward. Penn will smash whatever Villanova thinks it has. Considering UPenn is Philly's biggest non-public employer, it's already got some distance ahead of VU...and Temple. Even if many could only ever dream of getting into that school.

(02-21-2016 01:40 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2016 12:51 PM)lance99 Wrote:  Penn is a bad example because the entire Ivy League wanted to move down....

Ehh, not really. It's not as unified as that. Ivy considered Army and Navy for membership, and that would have allowed the entire conference to operate at D1A. And, remember that as recently as 2010, Ivy (or some number of its members) petitioned for a waiver to have its games with FBS schools count. Yale-Army still went through (more so because Army's AD really would want to be in that conference than anything that helped the players on the field that season).

They put their pants on one leg at a time just like the others. They just won't give folks the satisfaction acknowledging they do, in fact, operate like any other institution.

As for Villanova, and the Philadelphia region...it's been an interesting week on sports radio talking about Villanova hitting the top of the polls. It's true, what some have been remarking there, that it feels subdued and less infectious than when St. Joe's had that run a decade or so ago. I think many in the region can't identify with Villanova's self-draped elitism, and, there's still plenty of people to remind others where Villanova was as an institution, a Big 5 institution, 30-40 years ago.

Villanova, when it won the FCS title back in 2009, had a shot to become Philadelphia's college team of choice. They had the spotlight in 2009 and 2010. Not only did they not choose to be more open or transparent with this predicament, they continued to act like the stiffs they've become, barely acknowledging the matter publicly until they decided not to do so, putting down other institutions and conferences on their way out.

Honestly, I kind of hope the Ivies do decide to make a jump upward. Penn will smash whatever Villanova thinks it has. Considering UPenn is Philly's biggest non-public employer, it's already got some distance ahead of VU...and Temple. Even if many could only ever dream of getting into that school.

Lehigh University was also invited to join the Ivy League at on point too.

(02-21-2016 01:40 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-20-2016 12:51 PM)lance99 Wrote:  Penn is a bad example because the entire Ivy League wanted to move down....

Ehh, not really. It's not as unified as that. Ivy considered Army and Navy for membership, and that would have allowed the entire conference to operate at D1A. And, remember that as recently as 2010, Ivy (or some number of its members) petitioned for a waiver to have its games with FBS schools count. Yale-Army still went through (more so because Army's AD really would want to be in that conference than anything that helped the players on the field that season).

They put their pants on one leg at a time just like the others. They just won't give folks the satisfaction acknowledging they do, in fact, operate like any other institution.

As for Villanova, and the Philadelphia region...it's been an interesting week on sports radio talking about Villanova hitting the top of the polls. It's true, what some have been remarking there, that it feels subdued and less infectious than when St. Joe's had that run a decade or so ago. I think many in the region can't identify with Villanova's self-draped elitism, and, there's still plenty of people to remind others where Villanova was as an institution, a Big 5 institution, 30-40 years ago.

Villanova, when it won the FCS title back in 2009, had a shot to become Philadelphia's college team of choice. They had the spotlight in 2009 and 2010. Not only did they not choose to be more open or transparent with this predicament, they continued to act like the stiffs they've become, barely acknowledging the matter publicly until they decided not to do so, putting down other institutions and conferences on their way out.

Honestly, I kind of hope the Ivies do decide to make a jump upward. Penn will smash whatever Villanova thinks it has. Considering UPenn is Philly's biggest non-public employer, it's already got some distance ahead of VU...and Temple. Even if many could only ever dream of getting into that school.

I would be hilarious to see one of them basically buy a team and win a NC in front of dozens of fans.

(02-20-2016 12:51 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 12:54 AM)fishpro1098 Wrote:  

(02-18-2016 01:54 PM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Tom: GREAT analysis of why they're content, and better off, in FCS. One question though: isn't Philly big enough for 2 FBS programs?

Philly's only D-I FBS type program, Temple, dropped down in status in the early 1940's and basically played a D-II schedule until 1971b or 72- This was during the time television was boosting college FB with live games. Temple completely missed that boat, relegating them to the non-interest category.

Penn had a big following and 55K+ stadium, but they also dropped down, so there was a complete vacuum in terms of interest, so the Philly media paid attention to the only FBS level game around, PSU. Paterno turned that pony in to a show horse and made it the destination school for high school ballers. Meanwhile, when Temple got back in the FBS/DI-A level in the early 70's they had a few good years and then completely tanked after 1985 or so for the next 20+ years. A consistently good Temple could attract enough casual fans (non-alums) to have a decent chance of succeeding. This past year shows what was possible. Sustained success is what Temple needs to capture the city's attention (and by the city, I mean the 50 mile radius around the town that capture the media reach).

Penn is a bad example because the entire Ivy League wanted to move down....

My point on Penn was to illustrate that Philly was once a solid college FB town.


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