(02-05-2016 01:01 AM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 10:59 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 10:54 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  We had all those colors as well... red, blue, green, grey...the usual...

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Not this year you didn't. You signed 28 countable kids for recruiting services, we signed 20.

Side note, but I see AState leapfrogged Troy, and then USA leapfrogged us both now.

I'm not surprised...we still have a state champion QB with no rating...previously committed as a walk-on to auburn...we'll see if anyone from jags jungle will help us out with that.

Our scout guys messed around and programmed in what our class would look like if our 3 4 star transfers were counted. We'd have finished 40th in the nation.

Pretty good...pretty good

(02-04-2016 08:54 PM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  I'm not worried about where App finishes in the rankings. This class is smart, athletic, and full of difference makers. I wish we could have kept Kendall Brown and landed another DL, but the talent level is very high in this group.

How do you measure difference makers?

I'm not being sarcastic here, I really am asking.

(02-05-2016 01:01 AM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 10:59 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 10:54 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  We had all those colors as well... red, blue, green, grey...the usual...

Sent from my XT875 using Tapatalk

Not this year you didn't. You signed 28 countable kids for recruiting services, we signed 20.

Side note, but I see AState leapfrogged Troy, and then USA leapfrogged us both now.

I'm not surprised...we still have a state champion QB with no rating...previously committed as a walk-on to auburn...we'll see if anyone from jags jungle will help us out with that.

As I've said before, all I can do is put players on your list. We're all at the mercy of the 247 scouts when it comes to ratings.
Also, please PM me if any changes are needed. There's a good chance I'll miss a post in a thread.

(02-05-2016 06:22 AM)ButlerGSU Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 08:54 PM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  I'm not worried about where App finishes in the rankings. This class is smart, athletic, and full of difference makers. I wish we could have kept Kendall Brown and landed another DL, but the talent level is very high in this group.

How do you measure difference makers?

I'm not being sarcastic here, I really am asking.

good question....

Would like to hear how you go about your analysis as well....

(02-04-2016 12:50 PM)ApexRedWolf Wrote:  I dont put much stock in Rivals,Scout, ESPN or even 24/7, because they're all flawed rating systems.

The system I use tracks all the standard measurements like height, weight etc.,... but uses an proprietary algorithm to establish the player's unique abilities and special powers. Here is each SBC teams' 2016 recruitment class rated by Marvel.

SBC:
1. Arkansas State--------100.0
Georgia Southern--------Not rated
Troy-----------------------Not rated
South Alabama-----------Not rated
Texas State--------------Not rated
Louisiana-Lafayette------Not rated
Appalachian State-------Not rated
Louisiana-Monroe-------Not rated
Georgia State-----------Not rated
New Mexico State------Not rated
Idaho--------------------Not rated

(02-04-2016 12:19 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 12:09 PM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 11:55 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 11:53 AM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 11:27 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  Yes it is. They had a small senior class last year, and return most of the players that contributed to their 9-4 record.

Heck, if we were just talking about adding the best red-shirt class in their programs history we would be talking about a serious upgrade in talent next year, over last year.

Here are those red-shirts and the 247 composite star ranking.

***DT, Javier Carbonell
***RB, Jamal Jones
**LB, Kirk Louis
***LB, Avery Johnson
***OL, Dalton Ford
***OL, Cam Davis
**DE, TJ Harris
***QB, D.J. Pearson
***WR, Omar Bayless
**WR, Jaylon Marshall
*** OL, Ben Benton

That is a very impressive group, and no one is really factoring them in.

Everyone has redshirts from the prior year who are impressive and highly rated...

here are GS's with the 247 Composite as well

***RB Markeis Hallback
***CB Christian Matthew
***DE JB Kouassi
***ATH Jesse Liptrot
***S Jay Bowdry
***ATH Obe Fortune
***OG Jeremiah Theus
***WR D'Ondre Glenn
***QB Hampton McConnell
**OG Curtis Rainey
**RB Eric Montgomery
**TE Kevin Ackerman

No one is really factoring them in.

Not everyone, because the talent is not spread equally around the league. Per 247 GaSo, had more 3 stars recruits in 2015 than the bottom four SBC teams had combined.

Everyone agrees that the bottom of the league has work to do, but based on what I posted and what you posted, are you still saying stAte is head and shoulders above GS in talent?

More overall talent on their roster, yes. Head, and shoulders better no.

Do I expect the 2016 A-State team to beat the GaSo team, absolutely, but IMO they will be the best team in the SBC in 2106, and the talent gap will be a little wider next year than this year, but several SBC teams are more than capable of beating them.

I expect to be underdogs to ArkStat and App. Probably by more than 7.

This is the first year our FBS recruits will be hitting the field in mass, but most of our best guys are still FCS. Starting QB's, WR, two RB's, Center, DE, LB. It will not be until next year until this roster is no longer FCS recruit dependent.

When we jumped up I expected a roller coaster ride until year four but was hoping maybe this year would be the year. Unfortunately unless Upshaw had a coming out party in the bowl game our passing game is likely to still be pretty bad.

ALL the success we have had the last two years has just been icing on the cake for me and unexpected. The last two classes were inline with the other top teams so don't expect much, however this class had a distinct separation from even the second team if we can maintain that kind of separation then I think it will show on the field down the road if not I think we will remain a top three team but be in a battle every season like last year.

(02-05-2016 07:33 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 06:22 AM)ButlerGSU Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 08:54 PM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  I'm not worried about where App finishes in the rankings. This class is smart, athletic, and full of difference makers. I wish we could have kept Kendall Brown and landed another DL, but the talent level is very high in this group.

How do you measure difference makers?

I'm not being sarcastic here, I really am asking.

good question....

Would like to hear how you go about your analysis as well....

Foresight, duh!

(02-05-2016 06:22 AM)ButlerGSU Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 08:54 PM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  I'm not worried about where App finishes in the rankings. This class is smart, athletic, and full of difference makers. I wish we could have kept Kendall Brown and landed another DL, but the talent level is very high in this group.

How do you measure difference makers?

I'm not being sarcastic here, I really am asking.

I think the more accurate way to put it is, based on physical attributes, and productivity in high school, we have kids in this class with the potential to become difference makers, ie: one of wr is listed at 6'2 190 and its been reported he runs a 4.28, for a team that last year lacked speed at the receiver position, having a kid who can stretch the field, and open up the middle, has the potential to make a big difference.

(02-04-2016 01:03 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  Troy won the league from 06 through 10. Have a look at the recruiting rankings from 04 through 09 and tell me who was #1. I'll just tell you. From 04 to 09 Troy's recruiting rankings were #1, #2, #1, #1, #1, #1. We won five titles. From 10 through 16 we were #4, #2, #3, #4, #11, (#7, #2). Consistent with recruiting results, we were middle of the pack/low tier and no titles during the years that followed. But there's no correlation right? It's all a crap shoot at this level, right? Please...

Please don't turn my argument into a dichotomy and claim that I'm saying this is the ultimate forecast of the future. I'm saying there is a general trend that the teams that do well in 247 tend to do well on the field, and vice versa. I'm saying that to those who say they are not relevant at all.

Thank you! The most important part of the post is the CONSECUTIVE years of good recruiting not just #1 one year than #6 then #3 back to #7. When you have SUSTAINED recruiting success it absolutely translates on the field.

Mack Brown on ESPN said talent is the most important in college football. Another guy try to placate him and say well your good coaching mattered and he was adamant in that if your guys were not as good as the guys across the field usually it did not matter how good a coach you were you were going to lose. I'm paraphrasing but that was his opinion.

I think you have to have a distinct advantage and that is not typical in the Belt but it is not 2001 anymore and you can see a distinct talent advantage from the top of the conference and bottom now. The top 1,2,3 teams have a distinct talent advantage over the 9,10, and 11 teams and that is certainly reflected in multi year recruiting rankings.

About the only way around it is to live off JUCO's and transfers and cross your fingers.

I completely agree with Mack Brown the talent vs coaching. I coach various high school and middle school sports and there are some teams we've beaten that have coaches with way more experience than me (20+years vs 2). I doubt I know x's and o's better than most of them. We just have better players.

There are exceptions but I think it's more of a norm.

(02-05-2016 09:21 AM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  I completely agree with Mack Brown the talent vs coaching. I coach various high school and middle school sports and there are some teams we've beaten that have coaches with way more experience than me (20+years vs 2). I doubt I know x's and o's better than most of them. We just have better players.

There are exceptions but I think it's more of a norm.

So are you saying you recruit players at the high school level?

Who we really need to be considering in this recruiting pride-fest is how Sun Belt stacks up against CUSA and MAC. I hope the Sun Belt recruits better from top to bottom because we damn well need to. I'm disappointed that we haven't risen head and shoulders about the MAC. What's up with that?

Worse than I thought. Depressing. To get where we want to go as the bottom of the conference needs to improve relative to CUSA and MAC.

Quickly pulled from 247 Team Rankings on 2/5/16.

AVG RANK CONF
81.11 72.8 AAC
78.26 93.9 MWC
78.27 99.7 CUSA
76.97 108.2 SBC
77.40 112.8 MAC

AVG RANK CONF
81.11 72.8 AAC
78.27 99.7 CUSA
78.26 93.9 MWC
77.40 112.8 MAC
76.97 108.2 SBC


  SBCvMAC2016.PNG (Size: 35.02 KB / Downloads: 129)

(02-05-2016 09:41 AM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  Who we really need to be considering in this recruiting pride-fest is how Sun Belt stacks up against CUSA and MAC. I hope the Sun Belt recruits better from top to bottom because we damn well need to. I'm disappointed that we haven't risen head and shoulders about the MAC. What's up with that?

Not sure this matters but the MAC has quite a few teams that are in some of the most popluated states in the country like Illinois (NIU), Ohio (Toledo, Akron, Miami, Kent St), Michigan (Central, Eastern, Western) and New York (Buffalo)...lots of talent up there and after the BIG 10 gets their boys they are next in line with the exception that some of their HS player obviously go to P5 schools in other conferences...but lots of bodies to choose from...I would guess that a good number of their 2016 classes are in state recruits.

(02-05-2016 10:14 AM)kb325 Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 09:41 AM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  Who we really need to be considering in this recruiting pride-fest is how Sun Belt stacks up against CUSA and MAC. I hope the Sun Belt recruits better from top to bottom because we damn well need to. I'm disappointed that we haven't risen head and shoulders about the MAC. What's up with that?

Not sure this matters but the MAC has quite a few teams that are in some of the most popluated states in the country like Illinois (NIU), Ohio (Toledo, Akron, Miami, Kent St), Michigan (Central, Eastern, Western) and New York (Buffalo)...lots of talent up there and after the BIG 10 gets their boys they are next in line with the exception that some of their HS player obviously go to P5 schools in other conferences...but lots of bodies to choose from...I would guess that a good number of their 2016 classes are in state recruits.

I think you're probably right, unfortunately. Also we are competing with CUSA and AAC for regional SEC scraps. I bet they get more guys out of Florida than they should though.

App had twice as many three star players the day before they signed. Very reliable method at the G5 level.

(02-04-2016 12:37 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  It wasn't a talent issue it was a coaching issue. We took steps to correct that so don't count on us being down for long.

Not that it wasn't a coaching issue, it primarily was.

But it's a talent issue also. If you think we've got a talented roster you're wrong.

(02-05-2016 10:30 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  App had twice as many three star players the day before they signed. Very reliable method at the G5 level.

You are saying 247 reduced from 3* to 2* at the very end?

(02-05-2016 11:26 AM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 10:30 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  App had twice as many three star players the day before they signed. Very reliable method at the G5 level.

You are saying 247 reduced from 3* to 2* at the very end?

Yes, that is what he is saying as that is what happened. We started at 104 signed a 3 star that wasn't on our commit list and signed everyone included in that 104 ranking. After signing, half of our 3 stars fell to 2 stars and our ranking fell to 116.

(02-05-2016 11:26 AM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 10:30 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  App had twice as many three star players the day before they signed. Very reliable method at the G5 level.

You are saying 247 reduced from 3* to 2* at the very end?

I don't know about App but almost all of our class on 247 was re-rated in the week before signing day and in almost every case the rating was lowered.