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IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
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ken d Offline
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Post: #21
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
(01-29-2016 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  You're right. There's no way to "automatically" get NCAA autobids.

It's a way to keep the overall number of autobids in check, and no doubt that has a lot to do with March Madness, which right now has exactly the same number of autobids as at-large teams. If any group of schools could form a brand new conference and automatically be entitled to autobids, we might end up with 44 autobids instead of 34, which would mean either 10 fewer at-large teams in the tournament or an expansion of the tournament to preserve the balance between autobids and at-large teams.

The Atlantic 10, for example, has 14 members. If any new conference was automatically entitled to NCAA autobids, there would be nothing stopping the A-10 from dividing into two 7-team conferences for the sole purpose of getting two autobids. They could even have the same commissioner, same conference office, etc. to save on overhead, and have scheduling agreements with each other to make sure every school can easily fill its schedules. They could even have a shared TV deal, for that matter.

There would be nothing stopping any 12-team conference from splitting in half and each half adding one new member to get its own March Madness autobid and to meet the minimum 7 members required for a D-I conference.

This is really what matters. It's true that the by-laws are almost impossible to follow or interpret. But the by-laws aren't what matters. The end result is.

If conferences start gaming the system in ways that reduce the number of bids that the major basketball conferences get, then those major conferences are just going to change the rules. And if you think they don't have the power to do that, You didn't pay attention during the past year. They will get their rules changes, or they will leave, with the blessing of the media outlets that pay through the nose for the NCAAT.

The other minor conferences that now get an autobid will recognize the danger to them, and they will give the majors and the networks what they want, because they can't afford not to.
01-29-2016 08:43 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #22
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
(01-29-2016 08:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  You're right. There's no way to "automatically" get NCAA autobids.

It's a way to keep the overall number of autobids in check, and no doubt that has a lot to do with March Madness, which right now has exactly the same number of autobids as at-large teams. If any group of schools could form a brand new conference and automatically be entitled to autobids, we might end up with 44 autobids instead of 34, which would mean either 10 fewer at-large teams in the tournament or an expansion of the tournament to preserve the balance between autobids and at-large teams.

The Atlantic 10, for example, has 14 members. If any new conference was automatically entitled to NCAA autobids, there would be nothing stopping the A-10 from dividing into two 7-team conferences for the sole purpose of getting two autobids. They could even have the same commissioner, same conference office, etc. to save on overhead, and have scheduling agreements with each other to make sure every school can easily fill its schedules. They could even have a shared TV deal, for that matter.

There would be nothing stopping any 12-team conference from splitting in half and each half adding one new member to get its own March Madness autobid and to meet the minimum 7 members required for a D-I conference.

This is really what matters. It's true that the by-laws are almost impossible to follow or interpret. But the by-laws aren't what matters. The end result is.

If conferences start gaming the system in ways that reduce the number of bids that the major basketball conferences get, then those major conferences are just going to change the rules. And if you think they don't have the power to do that, You didn't pay attention during the past year. They will get their rules changes, or they will leave, with the blessing of the media outlets that pay through the nose for the NCAAT.

The other minor conferences that now get an autobid will recognize the danger to them, and they will give the majors and the networks what they want, because they can't afford not to.

CUSA can't game the system now as they don't have sufficient continuity. The A10, MEAC, MAC, and a few others could, but it's difficult to negotiate the new teams, sports requirement, TV contracts etc. If the P5 senses that conference splits are imminent by lesser conferences, they will close the loophole, but they will protect themselves.
01-29-2016 08:51 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
(01-29-2016 08:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  You're right. There's no way to "automatically" get NCAA autobids.

It's a way to keep the overall number of autobids in check, and no doubt that has a lot to do with March Madness, which right now has exactly the same number of autobids as at-large teams. If any group of schools could form a brand new conference and automatically be entitled to autobids, we might end up with 44 autobids instead of 34, which would mean either 10 fewer at-large teams in the tournament or an expansion of the tournament to preserve the balance between autobids and at-large teams.

The Atlantic 10, for example, has 14 members. If any new conference was automatically entitled to NCAA autobids, there would be nothing stopping the A-10 from dividing into two 7-team conferences for the sole purpose of getting two autobids. They could even have the same commissioner, same conference office, etc. to save on overhead, and have scheduling agreements with each other to make sure every school can easily fill its schedules. They could even have a shared TV deal, for that matter.

There would be nothing stopping any 12-team conference from splitting in half and each half adding one new member to get its own March Madness autobid and to meet the minimum 7 members required for a D-I conference.

This is really what matters. It's true that the by-laws are almost impossible to follow or interpret. But the by-laws aren't what matters. The end result is.

If conferences start gaming the system in ways that reduce the number of bids that the major basketball conferences get, then those major conferences are just going to change the rules. And if you think they don't have the power to do that, You didn't pay attention during the past year. They will get their rules changes, or they will leave, with the blessing of the media outlets that pay through the nose for the NCAAT.

The other minor conferences that now get an autobid will recognize the danger to them, and they will give the majors and the networks what they want, because they can't afford not to.

CUSA can't game the system now as they don't have sufficient continuity. The A10, MEAC, MAC, and a few others could, but it's difficult to negotiate the new teams, sports requirement, TV contracts etc. If the P5 senses that conference splits are imminent by lesser conferences, they will close the loophole, but they will protect themselves.

Once again, if you look through the bylaws, they already did.
01-29-2016 08:56 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #24
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
(01-29-2016 08:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  You're right. There's no way to "automatically" get NCAA autobids.

It's a way to keep the overall number of autobids in check, and no doubt that has a lot to do with March Madness, which right now has exactly the same number of autobids as at-large teams. If any group of schools could form a brand new conference and automatically be entitled to autobids, we might end up with 44 autobids instead of 34, which would mean either 10 fewer at-large teams in the tournament or an expansion of the tournament to preserve the balance between autobids and at-large teams.

The Atlantic 10, for example, has 14 members. If any new conference was automatically entitled to NCAA autobids, there would be nothing stopping the A-10 from dividing into two 7-team conferences for the sole purpose of getting two autobids. They could even have the same commissioner, same conference office, etc. to save on overhead, and have scheduling agreements with each other to make sure every school can easily fill its schedules. They could even have a shared TV deal, for that matter.

There would be nothing stopping any 12-team conference from splitting in half and each half adding one new member to get its own March Madness autobid and to meet the minimum 7 members required for a D-I conference.

This is really what matters. It's true that the by-laws are almost impossible to follow or interpret. But the by-laws aren't what matters. The end result is.

If conferences start gaming the system in ways that reduce the number of bids that the major basketball conferences get, then those major conferences are just going to change the rules. And if you think they don't have the power to do that, You didn't pay attention during the past year. They will get their rules changes, or they will leave, with the blessing of the media outlets that pay through the nose for the NCAAT.

The other minor conferences that now get an autobid will recognize the danger to them, and they will give the majors and the networks what they want, because they can't afford not to.

CUSA can't game the system now as they don't have sufficient continuity. The A10, MEAC, MAC, and a few others could, but it's difficult to negotiate the new teams, sports requirement, TV contracts etc. If the P5 senses that conference splits are imminent by lesser conferences, they will close the loophole, but they will protect themselves.

Once again, if you look through the bylaws, they already did.

The NCAA considered continuity was met by the NCHC before when six of its teams were in another conference. They didn't have to play two years to get official autobids and they weren't power schools with major media contracts like the Big East. Continuity can be established in a prior league, per the NCAA guidance and track record.
01-29-2016 09:03 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #25
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
It would be interesting to see if a new conference that had 7 schools with 8 years of continuity would get a new bid. The rules are vague about but the precident set up by the big east conference would indicate that they would qualify
01-29-2016 09:15 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #26
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
(01-29-2016 09:03 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:51 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 08:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 04:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  You're right. There's no way to "automatically" get NCAA autobids.

It's a way to keep the overall number of autobids in check, and no doubt that has a lot to do with March Madness, which right now has exactly the same number of autobids as at-large teams. If any group of schools could form a brand new conference and automatically be entitled to autobids, we might end up with 44 autobids instead of 34, which would mean either 10 fewer at-large teams in the tournament or an expansion of the tournament to preserve the balance between autobids and at-large teams.

The Atlantic 10, for example, has 14 members. If any new conference was automatically entitled to NCAA autobids, there would be nothing stopping the A-10 from dividing into two 7-team conferences for the sole purpose of getting two autobids. They could even have the same commissioner, same conference office, etc. to save on overhead, and have scheduling agreements with each other to make sure every school can easily fill its schedules. They could even have a shared TV deal, for that matter.

There would be nothing stopping any 12-team conference from splitting in half and each half adding one new member to get its own March Madness autobid and to meet the minimum 7 members required for a D-I conference.

This is really what matters. It's true that the by-laws are almost impossible to follow or interpret. But the by-laws aren't what matters. The end result is.

If conferences start gaming the system in ways that reduce the number of bids that the major basketball conferences get, then those major conferences are just going to change the rules. And if you think they don't have the power to do that, You didn't pay attention during the past year. They will get their rules changes, or they will leave, with the blessing of the media outlets that pay through the nose for the NCAAT.

The other minor conferences that now get an autobid will recognize the danger to them, and they will give the majors and the networks what they want, because they can't afford not to.

CUSA can't game the system now as they don't have sufficient continuity. The A10, MEAC, MAC, and a few others could, but it's difficult to negotiate the new teams, sports requirement, TV contracts etc. If the P5 senses that conference splits are imminent by lesser conferences, they will close the loophole, but they will protect themselves.

Once again, if you look through the bylaws, they already did.

The NCAA considered continuity was met by the NCHC before when six of its teams were in another conference. They didn't have to play two years to get official autobids and they weren't power schools with major media contracts like the Big East. Continuity can be established in a prior league, per the NCAA guidance and track record.

The rules for multisport conferences and single-sport conferences are different. The rules for multisport conferences don't say anything anymore about schools "conducted conference competition together". The rules for single sport conferences do.
01-29-2016 09:23 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #27
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, a new conference can never EARN an autobid
(01-29-2016 09:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It would be interesting to see if a new conference that had 7 schools with 8 years of continuity would get a new bid. The rules are vague about but the precident set up by the big east conference would indicate that they would qualify

I've come to think they would. I may change the title of the thread.
01-29-2016 09:23 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #28
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-29-2016 09:23 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-29-2016 09:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It would be interesting to see if a new conference that had 7 schools with 8 years of continuity would get a new bid. The rules are vague about but the precident set up by the big east conference would indicate that they would qualify

I've come to think they would. I may change the title of the thread.
The Big East got the autobid because after they were voted into the non-FB subdivision list, they met all the criteria.
01-30-2016 12:31 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #29
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-29-2016 09:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  It would be interesting to see if a new conference that had 7 schools with 8 years of continuity would get a new bid. The rules are vague about but the precident set up by the big east conference would indicate that they would qualify

I hadn't considered it but the Big East was just at that line of 7 schools but what if they were not?

I suppose their is always an exception if a conference petitions.
01-30-2016 12:42 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #30
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 12:31 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The Big East got the autobid because after they were voted into the non-FB subdivision list, they met all the criteria.

You're correct, Bruce. Here is the report of the NCAA board meeting at which the new Big East was voted in. See item 5: "The Board voted to approve the Big East Conference as a Division I core conference to be added to the Division I governance and championships structure, effective for NCAA purposes on August 1, 2013. "
01-30-2016 12:49 AM
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