(01-22-2016 02:16 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:15 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 01:58 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 01:47 PM)Irish Wrote:  Elmore and Patrick are the best in objectivity and easy to follow, in my opinion. I think Elmore is tbe best color guy period. He has no agenda. Last night was a great game and could have gone either way. I think turnovers and selfish shots at critical times cost us the game. We were prepared, had a good game plan, and no lack of effort. Lost to a good team on their home court.
Coaching was fine last night, based on what I saw.

Unlike others, i didn't come here for a history lesson. It's the future I'm interested in. This team is improving. These announcers saw us earlier and were far more complimentary last night for good reason.

The future of this program with Pastner in charge is nothing less than bleak. Pastner's ability to recruit in Memphis is over....he's poison. Our recruiting class going forward will consist of JUCO's, the "diamond in the rough" high schooler, and the problem child transfers. Yay.

Well, your ability to predict the future is a gift that escapes me. I know what I saw last night. What the future holds is not yet written. So excuse me if I let it play out.

6 1/2 years worth of mediocrity tells me all I need to know about the future. That and the 2016 recruits we have coming in

You put up with from the Hall of Famer living off of AAC wannabes. And still couldn't beat terrrible Ole Miss teams.

(01-22-2016 03:27 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:24 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:04 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:01 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:48 PM)Irish Wrote:  You can't possibly contend he didn't exceed expectations in the first half of his tenure. I never dreamed we would be undefeated in conference that first year. Do i think we should be better now, yes. But the results have been far from terrible, and I do see improvement. I don't think folks realize how truly exceptional Cal's last four years were.

This isn't about Cal anymore - Josh is being compared to himself now. And we have a large enough sample size now. To you, I'd ask...how has Josh improved? What do you see...honest question.

As far as Josh exceeding/not exceeding expectations in the first half of his tenure...I don't think he did.

The team he inherited was definitely "gutted" from what it could've been, but it was still the most talented roster in a crap league. We were competitive in most games & made the NIT. I think that's "meeting expectations" but certainly didn't exceed them...we didn't even win CUSA.

From there he won a crap league (by the skin of his teeth) with a loaded, but young roster. Then competed in the NCAA tourney vs. a superior team. Again, "met expectations"...not exceeding them. Lost a lot of games we should've won that year.

The next 3 years were complete let downs. No Sweet 16s with great rosters/recruiting classes.

The only people who bring Cal up anymore are people defending Pastner, and "shielding" him from unreasonable expectations.

Like you said he is being judged on his lack of success in caparison to his salary at this point. This will mark year 3 out of 7 without an NCAA tournament birth and likely 2 seasons in a row without any postseason tournament. He has two second round NCAA wins in 7 years that were immediately followed by two complete and total blowouts...

It was a great game and Josh is improving as a coach.

Again - honest question because I am curious - what SPECIFICALLY have you seen that shows Josh has improved as a coach.

I'll answer. It's because we actually made 3's last night that we don't normally make so the score was closer. We shoot like we normally do and it's a run off....

(01-22-2016 03:24 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:04 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:01 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:48 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:36 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Josh has underachieved with every roster he's ever inherited or assembled. He fails to meet expectations. He doesn't beat good teams and mismanages his roster - that's why we are where we are today. Despite all that, he's had just enough success to keep Memphis somewhat relevant...that, IMHO, is MEDIOCRE.

Not terrible, but certainly not exceeding anyone's expectations.

You can't possibly contend he didn't exceed expectations in the first half of his tenure. I never dreamed we would be undefeated in conference that first year. Do i think we should be better now, yes. But the results have been far from terrible, and I do see improvement. I don't think folks realize how truly exceptional Cal's last four years were.

This isn't about Cal anymore - Josh is being compared to himself now. And we have a large enough sample size now. To you, I'd ask...how has Josh improved? What do you see...honest question.

As far as Josh exceeding/not exceeding expectations in the first half of his tenure...I don't think he did.

The team he inherited was definitely "gutted" from what it could've been, but it was still the most talented roster in a crap league. We were competitive in most games & made the NIT. I think that's "meeting expectations" but certainly didn't exceed them...we didn't even win CUSA.

From there he won a crap league (by the skin of his teeth) with a loaded, but young roster. Then competed in the NCAA tourney vs. a superior team. Again, "met expectations"...not exceeding them. Lost a lot of games we should've won that year.

The next 3 years were complete let downs. No Sweet 16s with great rosters/recruiting classes.

The only people who bring Cal up anymore are people defending Pastner, and "shielding" him from unreasonable expectations.

Like you said he is being judged on his lack of success in caparison to his salary at this point. This will mark year 3 out of 7 without an NCAA tournament birth and likely 2 seasons in a row without any postseason tournament. He has two second round NCAA wins in 7 years that were immediately followed by two complete and total blowouts...

I posted originally to say the announcers were objective with their comments. It was a great game and Josh is improving as a coach. I don't understand not being willing to enjoy a great effort. Beating Cincy on their floor would be an accomplishment in any era.

I don't see enough improvement to warrant keeping him. Last night, down two points we get off a tough 3 very late in the shot clock. Down four, the same thing. In addition, his recruiting has slipped and its doubtful the late signing period will yield enough quality signings to keep the talent level the same as this year's team.

(01-22-2016 03:29 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:27 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:24 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:04 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:01 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  This isn't about Cal anymore - Josh is being compared to himself now. And we have a large enough sample size now. To you, I'd ask...how has Josh improved? What do you see...honest question.

As far as Josh exceeding/not exceeding expectations in the first half of his tenure...I don't think he did.

The team he inherited was definitely "gutted" from what it could've been, but it was still the most talented roster in a crap league. We were competitive in most games & made the NIT. I think that's "meeting expectations" but certainly didn't exceed them...we didn't even win CUSA.

From there he won a crap league (by the skin of his teeth) with a loaded, but young roster. Then competed in the NCAA tourney vs. a superior team. Again, "met expectations"...not exceeding them. Lost a lot of games we should've won that year.

The next 3 years were complete let downs. No Sweet 16s with great rosters/recruiting classes.

The only people who bring Cal up anymore are people defending Pastner, and "shielding" him from unreasonable expectations.

Like you said he is being judged on his lack of success in caparison to his salary at this point. This will mark year 3 out of 7 without an NCAA tournament birth and likely 2 seasons in a row without any postseason tournament. He has two second round NCAA wins in 7 years that were immediately followed by two complete and total blowouts...

It was a great game and Josh is improving as a coach.

Again - honest question because I am curious - what SPECIFICALLY have you seen that shows Josh has improved as a coach.

I'll answer. It's because we actually made 3's last night that we don't normally make so the score was closer. We shoot like we normally do and it's a run off....

Cincinnati shoots like they normally do and it is Memphis by more than 10.

(01-22-2016 02:48 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:36 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:33 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:16 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:15 PM)Irish Wrote:  Well, your ability to predict the future is a gift that escapes me. I know what I saw last night. What the future holds is not yet written. So excuse me if I let it play out.

6 1/2 years worth of mediocrity tells me all I need to know about the future. That and the 2016 recruits we have coming in

I don't think 6 1/2 years of "mediocrity" is really fair. Don't remember folks complaining when he was given the current contract. Not sure the 2016 class is complete. I agree we've had more highly rated classes. If he adds a couple of solid bigs, may turn out to be a good class. I'm pretty sure JUCO's play a big role across d1 basketball. I agree we gotta start winning games like last night, but I believe the coaching has clearly improved.

Josh has underachieved with every roster he's ever inherited or assembled. He fails to meet expectations. He doesn't beat good teams and mismanages his roster - that's why we are where we are today. Despite all that, he's had just enough success to keep Memphis somewhat relevant...that, IMHO, is MEDIOCRE.

Not terrible, but certainly not exceeding anyone's expectations.

You can't possibly contend he didn't exceed expectations in the first half of his tenure. I never dreamed we would be undefeated in conference that first year. Do i think we should be better now, yes. But the results have been far from terrible, and I do see improvement. I don't think folks realize how truly exceptional Cal's last four years were.

We were only undefeated in conference the 2012-2013 season, which is the only season one of his teams hasn't underperformed, finishing the season ranked around where we started.

The first season we went 13-3 in CUSA including a loss to sub 200 RPI SMU, and went out in the first round of the CUSA tourney against sub 100 RPI Houston.

The next two seasons the Tigers started out the season ranked 19th and 11th respectively, only to fall out of the polls entirely and never make it back in. They finished 4h in CUSA in 2010-2011 and needed to win the CUSA tournament to even make the NCAAs.

There's no sense of the word that he's ever overachieved during his tenure here.

(01-22-2016 03:38 PM)tigerex Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:29 PM)Dylan Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:27 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:24 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:04 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  The only people who bring Cal up anymore are people defending Pastner, and "shielding" him from unreasonable expectations.

Like you said he is being judged on his lack of success in caparison to his salary at this point. This will mark year 3 out of 7 without an NCAA tournament birth and likely 2 seasons in a row without any postseason tournament. He has two second round NCAA wins in 7 years that were immediately followed by two complete and total blowouts...

It was a great game and Josh is improving as a coach.

Again - honest question because I am curious - what SPECIFICALLY have you seen that shows Josh has improved as a coach.

I'll answer. It's because we actually made 3's last night that we don't normally make so the score was closer. We shoot like we normally do and it's a run off....

Cincinnati shoots like they normally do and it is Memphis by more than 10.

they shot 26% from 3, we didn't defend them in the post AT ALL. You can't be serious.

(01-22-2016 02:33 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:16 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:15 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 01:58 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 01:47 PM)Irish Wrote:  Elmore and Patrick are the best in objectivity and easy to follow, in my opinion. I think Elmore is tbe best color guy period. He has no agenda. Last night was a great game and could have gone either way. I think turnovers and selfish shots at critical times cost us the game. We were prepared, had a good game plan, and no lack of effort. Lost to a good team on their home court.
Coaching was fine last night, based on what I saw.

Unlike others, i didn't come here for a history lesson. It's the future I'm interested in. This team is improving. These announcers saw us earlier and were far more complimentary last night for good reason.

The future of this program with Pastner in charge is nothing less than bleak. Pastner's ability to recruit in Memphis is over....he's poison. Our recruiting class going forward will consist of JUCO's, the "diamond in the rough" high schooler, and the problem child transfers. Yay.

Well, your ability to predict the future is a gift that escapes me. I know what I saw last night. What the future holds is not yet written. So excuse me if I let it play out.

6 1/2 years worth of mediocrity tells me all I need to know about the future. That and the 2016 recruits we have coming in

I don't think 6 1/2 years of "mediocrity" is really fair. Don't remember folks complaining when he was given the current contract. Not sure the 2016 class is complete. I agree we've had more highly rated classes. If he adds a couple of solid bigs, may turn out to be a good class. I'm pretty sure JUCO's play a big role across d1 basketball. I agree we gotta start winning games like last night, but I believe the coaching has clearly improved.

I guess you don't read Latty.

I wanted him to go and get the USC three years ago.

(01-22-2016 11:31 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  This thread title is unsettling

How ya like it now?

(01-22-2016 10:41 AM)HungryTiger901 Wrote:  Parrish is doing his best to protect Opie but the ESPN folks called a spade a spade last night and said the Tigers have trouble finishing.

Our coach gets exposed when he had to match wits with a real basketball coach during crunch time. If the Temple guy doesn't hit Tarrant in the mouth, he loses another conference game at home.

Sad. And the look on Damon's face is always telling.

Really? So the conspiracy now is that GP is protecting CJP? I guess we can blame him, the boosters, and the Sunshine Pumpers. You guys crack me up.

(01-22-2016 01:47 PM)Irish Wrote:  Elmore and Patrick are the best in objectivity and easy to follow, in my opinion. I think Elmore is tbe best color guy period. He has no agenda. Last night was a great game and could have gone either way. I think turnovers and selfish shots at critical times cost us the game. We were prepared, had a good game plan, and no lack of effort. Lost to a good team on their home court.
Coaching was fine last night, based on what I saw.

Unlike others, i didn't come here for a history lesson. It's the future I'm interested in. This team is improving. These announcers saw us earlier and were far more complimentary last night for good reason.

That is simply too realistic, analytical, mannered, non histrionic, and well put...that there is no way they leave it alone.

(01-22-2016 03:39 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:48 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:36 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:33 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:16 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  6 1/2 years worth of mediocrity tells me all I need to know about the future. That and the 2016 recruits we have coming in

I don't think 6 1/2 years of "mediocrity" is really fair. Don't remember folks complaining when he was given the current contract. Not sure the 2016 class is complete. I agree we've had more highly rated classes. If he adds a couple of solid bigs, may turn out to be a good class. I'm pretty sure JUCO's play a big role across d1 basketball. I agree we gotta start winning games like last night, but I believe the coaching has clearly improved.

Josh has underachieved with every roster he's ever inherited or assembled. He fails to meet expectations. He doesn't beat good teams and mismanages his roster - that's why we are where we are today. Despite all that, he's had just enough success to keep Memphis somewhat relevant...that, IMHO, is MEDIOCRE.

Not terrible, but certainly not exceeding anyone's expectations.

You can't possibly contend he didn't exceed expectations in the first half of his tenure. I never dreamed we would be undefeated in conference that first year. Do i think we should be better now, yes. But the results have been far from terrible, and I do see improvement. I don't think folks realize how truly exceptional Cal's last four years were.

We were only undefeated in conference the 2012-2013 season, which is the only season one of his teams hasn't underperformed, finishing the season ranked around where we started.

The first season we went 13-3 in CUSA including a loss to sub 200 RPI SMU, and went out in the first round of the CUSA tourney against sub 100 RPI Houston.

The next two seasons the Tigers started out the season ranked 19th and 11th respectively, only to fall out of the polls entirely and never make it back in. They finished 4h in CUSA in 2010-2011 and needed to win the CUSA tournament to even make the NCAAs.

There's no sense of the word that he's ever overachieved during his tenure here.

Truth ! His teams have underachieved their preseason expectations EVERY SINGLE YEAR

(01-22-2016 03:31 PM)EdmondTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:24 PM)Irish Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:04 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 03:01 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(01-22-2016 02:48 PM)Irish Wrote:  You can't possibly contend he didn't exceed expectations in the first half of his tenure. I never dreamed we would be undefeated in conference that first year. Do i think we should be better now, yes. But the results have been far from terrible, and I do see improvement. I don't think folks realize how truly exceptional Cal's last four years were.

This isn't about Cal anymore - Josh is being compared to himself now. And we have a large enough sample size now. To you, I'd ask...how has Josh improved? What do you see...honest question.

As far as Josh exceeding/not exceeding expectations in the first half of his tenure...I don't think he did.

The team he inherited was definitely "gutted" from what it could've been, but it was still the most talented roster in a crap league. We were competitive in most games & made the NIT. I think that's "meeting expectations" but certainly didn't exceed them...we didn't even win CUSA.

From there he won a crap league (by the skin of his teeth) with a loaded, but young roster. Then competed in the NCAA tourney vs. a superior team. Again, "met expectations"...not exceeding them. Lost a lot of games we should've won that year.

The next 3 years were complete let downs. No Sweet 16s with great rosters/recruiting classes.

The only people who bring Cal up anymore are people defending Pastner, and "shielding" him from unreasonable expectations.

Like you said he is being judged on his lack of success in caparison to his salary at this point. This will mark year 3 out of 7 without an NCAA tournament birth and likely 2 seasons in a row without any postseason tournament. He has two second round NCAA wins in 7 years that were immediately followed by two complete and total blowouts...

I posted originally to say the announcers were objective with their comments. It was a great game and Josh is improving as a coach. I don't understand not being willing to enjoy a great effort. Beating Cincy on their floor would be an accomplishment in any era.

I don't see enough improvement to warrant keeping him. Last night, down two points we get off a tough 3 very late in the shot clock. Down four, the same thing. In addition, his recruiting has slipped and its doubtful the late signing period will yield enough quality signings to keep the talent level the same as this year's team.

Possibly.

There has been improvement but very possibly not enough. We will see over the next half of the season.

Much better out than the trolling. Well done.

Lets hope the improvement goes up by one more solid play a game. Something that would likely have our kids sitting at 15-3 instead of 12-6. If we do not get that one extra and lose a handful more games, even close, we will be looking for another coach. Meanwhile, let's hope they get it.

Simply easier than trying to out nasty and out bash non negative all the time posters than the next guy.

An accurate explanation of that contract would have to include an open bar somewhere.

And I agree Josh is getting better. When he gets his next job, he'll probably be worth what he gets -- something that never happened here.

(01-22-2016 12:19 PM)bluecrew Wrote:  They aren't "pumping" him nearly as hard as opposing coaches are

Ouch