Athletic conferences are best at 9 or ten members.
All members can play each other in football for better for rivalries.
All members can play H&H in basketball and travel is less generally.

The twelve teams for a championship game rule caused a lot of expansion.
Without it the original MWC would still be together.
The Big East would still be together along with the WAC.
The rule benefited a few schools who moved up and a few C- USA schools.
Because they joined the Big East leftovers.
Every other conference got worse and it hurt most of the G5.

Idaho and NMSU got hurt the most with the WAC dying and then their reason for SBC membership taken away.
Also the invitation rule keeps anyone else from moving up so FBS is closed.
No chance of a new conference without rules changes.
Eight members are needed now making that more difficult.

Meanwhile a team moved up and averaged five thousand actual fans their first year.
The MAC averaged less than the minimum as a conference .
North Carolina had kids taking fake classes and they play for the conference championship.
The last three I don't really care about just pointing out how some rules don't matter.

Montana would lead two or three G5 conferences in actual fans to the game.
NDSU would beat a lot of G5 teams and average more fans .
Doesn't matter they are late to the party and stuck in the third tier.
Despite having better academics support and football than some G5 schools.
Rules changes and their unexpected consequences have caused this .
Without some of these rules changes FBS would have less teams .
The newer teams would have been a little more worthy chances are.

What we have learned so far this past year.

All the rules changes that the P5 have put in place have ruined college football. Lost several schools by divisions when some schools wound up downgraded from D1 down to D2, D3 and FCS.

It would have been best that no 5-7 and 6-6 teams, and no FBS and FCS levels, we could have teams like North Dakota State, Jacksonville State, Illinois State, Portland State, James Madison, McNeese State and others could be in bowl games.

It sucks for Idaho, NMSU, and UMass, but the rules were put here for a reason.

(01-18-2016 12:37 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It sucks for Idaho, NMSU, and UMass, but the rules were put here for a reason.

Don't forget every current FCS team not named Coastal.
No reason to replace Idaho and NMSU with JMU and Missouri ST.
That is even if they turned into Montana and NDSU in a few years.
Unless a conference splits teams are stuck .
This might be good for stability but bad for a lot of schools.

These current rules if they existed thirty years ago would have kept a lot of teams out.
No Boise or Marshal teams like App St and Georgia Southern starting out fast.
Teams like Ark ST that have had a nice run lately .
That took twenty years to make it to a bowl game .
The current rules if they took effect in 1996 vs 2016 there is no Sun Belt.
This also sucks for the Houston and U Conn type programs .

(01-18-2016 04:19 AM)MJG Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 12:37 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It sucks for Idaho, NMSU, and UMass, but the rules were put here for a reason.

Don't forget every current FCS team not named Coastal.
No reason to replace Idaho and NMSU with JMU and Missouri ST.
That is even if they turned into Montana and NDSU in a few years.
Unless a conference splits teams are stuck .
This might be good for stability but bad for a lot of schools.

These current rules if they existed thirty years ago would have kept a lot of teams out.
No Boise or Marshal teams like App St and Georgia Southern starting out fast.
Teams like Ark ST that have had a nice run lately .
That took twenty years to make it to a bowl game .
The current rules if they took effect in 1996 vs 2016 there is no Sun Belt.
This also sucks for the Houston and U Conn type programs .

Those rules were created partially because we had large numbers of programs moving up who had no idea of what it took to make it. It's for protection so we don't have a ton of independent teams trying to survive.

(01-18-2016 08:59 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 04:19 AM)MJG Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 12:37 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  It sucks for Idaho, NMSU, and UMass, but the rules were put here for a reason.

Don't forget every current FCS team not named Coastal.
No reason to replace Idaho and NMSU with JMU and Missouri ST.
That is even if they turned into Montana and NDSU in a few years.
Unless a conference splits teams are stuck .
This might be good for stability but bad for a lot of schools.

These current rules if they existed thirty years ago would have kept a lot of teams out.
No Boise or Marshal teams like App St and Georgia Southern starting out fast.
Teams like Ark ST that have had a nice run lately .
That took twenty years to make it to a bowl game .
The current rules if they took effect in 1996 vs 2016 there is no Sun Belt.
This also sucks for the Houston and U Conn type programs .

Those rules were created partially because we had large numbers of programs moving up who had no idea of what it took to make it. It's for protection so we don't have a ton of independent teams trying to survive.

Mostly schools that jumped up from the NAIA level.

The NCAA should allow the independent schools to act as a conference.
Once Idaho and NMSU join them.
Something like eighty percent of independents have to vote yes and schedule the school moving up.
That would help Both groups going forward in scheduling.

I doubt many schools would take independents over an FCS conference.
So there wouldn't be a run on FBS.
I wouldn't count ND as independent their more than fifty percent in the ACC.

Idaho,NMSU and U Mass have the most to gain.
BYU and Army would probably welcome more scheduling options.

The best early candidates would be NDSU and SDSU because their in a football only conference.
Liberty because of money all three have the fan support.

If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

The new rules are tailor made to give teams moving up the best chance of success, and it resolves the compliance issues the NCAA had dealing with whether or not a transitioning team had actually scheduled sufficient games to reclassify.

(01-19-2016 09:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

Correct. Moving up as an independent is the worst thing that could happen. Akron did that and is used as the proof that it cannot be done properly(in Football).

(01-19-2016 02:26 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 09:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

Correct. Moving up as an independent is the worst thing that could happen. Akron did that and is used as the proof that it cannot be done properly(in Football).

Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.
An existing conference could be used to become a conference.
The summit or the Big Sky depending upon who moved up.
The FCS playing members don't have to go anywhere.
They have the option of creating a FCS football only conference.

(01-19-2016 05:47 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 02:26 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 09:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

Correct. Moving up as an independent is the worst thing that could happen. Akron did that and is used as the proof that it cannot be done properly(in Football).

Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.
An existing conference could be used to become a conference.
The summit or the Big Sky depending upon who moved up.
The FCS playing members don't have to go anywhere.
They have the option of creating a FCS football only conference.

When they went Indy 1-A in 1987 there were 23 schools that were independent.

(01-19-2016 05:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 05:47 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 02:26 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 09:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

Correct. Moving up as an independent is the worst thing that could happen. Akron did that and is used as the proof that it cannot be done properly(in Football).

Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.
An existing conference could be used to become a conference.
The summit or the Big Sky depending upon who moved up.
The FCS playing members don't have to go anywhere.
They have the option of creating a FCS football only conference.

When they went Indy 1-A in 1987 there were 23 schools that were independent.

Did they have annual games like a conference ?
Penn state being independent didn't help Akron.
Would any G5 conference go over ten members if the 12 team CCG rule didn't exist.
The last twelve invited would be FCS.
WKU,TEXAS ST ,GA SO,GA ST.ODU,APP ST,S ALA,CHARLOTTE,UTSA,CCU, U MASS and the F_U twins.

Lets say schools in the FCS that wants FBS could pay a fee to join.
Liberty could pay so much to join FBS even if it is the Independent route.

Or, schools that want to move up can pay a fee to be an Independent until someone wants them. It would be a lottery draft. The draft will take place once every 5 years. Lets say 100 schools from FCS and D2 put their name in the draft at $10,000 a pop?
Liberty, Eastern Kentucky, North Alabama, Alabama State, Chattanooga, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, West Florida, West Texas A&M, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Jacksonville State, James Madison, Stony Brook, Youngstown State, Milwaukee, Delaware, Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, Sacramento State, Cal-Davis, Cal-Poly, Long Beach State, and so forth. 5 names could be drawn. I do think North Dakota State could get a pass for instant FBS status as an Independent. It would give the Western Big 10 schools a strong team to help with the SoS. I think they could get games with the Big 12, Big 10, MWC, BYU, Idaho and Ne Mexico State easily.

(01-19-2016 05:47 PM)MJG Wrote:  Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.

And if you basically have a conference, then you basically have given up independence ... which would be ample incentive for those independents by choice rather than lack of alternative to simply vote against inviting FBS independents. For Notre Dame, BYU and Army, they have better scheduling options than having to play in the Island of Misfit Toys conference every year.

(01-19-2016 05:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 05:47 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 02:26 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 09:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

Correct. Moving up as an independent is the worst thing that could happen. Akron did that and is used as the proof that it cannot be done properly(in Football).

Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.
An existing conference could be used to become a conference.
The summit or the Big Sky depending upon who moved up.
The FCS playing members don't have to go anywhere.
They have the option of creating a FCS football only conference.

When they went Indy 1-A in 1987 there were 23 schools that were independent.

That meant nothing in Akron's case at that time. They still have to find schools to play. Outside of Kent State, or the random MAC school at that time, the options was really thin unless they did a 1-AA school or an ATM game somewhere.

The Akron experience that the NCAA looks at is the reason why Liberty has not moved up yet as an Independent. Akron Basketball was even worst for them, just ask Bob Huggins

(01-20-2016 06:50 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 05:47 PM)MJG Wrote:  Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.

And if you basically have a conference, then you basically have given up independence ... which would be ample incentive for those independents by choice rather than lack of alternative to simply vote against inviting FBS independents. For Notre Dame, BYU and Army, they have better scheduling options than having to play in the Island of Misfit Toys conference every year.

The Three schools in Bold are National Brands and Army Chooses to be Independent for Military recruiting and it does not hurt them that much because Schools will play them.

(01-19-2016 05:47 PM)MJG Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 02:26 PM)lance99 Wrote:  

(01-19-2016 09:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If you go back and look...
Most of the teams who moved from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FBS who had a smooth transition moved directly or very quickly into a conference. The schools moving as independents tended to struggle.

Correct. Moving up as an independent is the worst thing that could happen. Akron did that and is used as the proof that it cannot be done properly(in Football).

Did they have five independent schools scheduling them every year.
Once you get to seven without BYU and Army you basically have a conference.
An existing conference could be used to become a conference.
The summit or the Big Sky depending upon who moved up.
The FCS playing members don't have to go anywhere.
They have the option of creating a FCS football only conference.

Where are you getting the idea that the current independent teams would automatically schedule said team, any more than the issue Akron had?