(01-17-2016 08:28 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 06:49 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  Somehow after a decade MC's shtick still isn't old with the majority of fans. The guy is an average coach. You're not even in contention to be considered good -to- great when you're totally incompetent on one side of the game. Offense if 50% of basketball. If I'm an offensively gifted baller why do I come play for him?!? In no way is he preparing me for the next level with his mickey mouse offensive sets. The best offensive player to come out of his program is...... hustling for 10 day contracts, and for all the 'vaunted' defense we're supposedly playing no one is going to NBA from UC based on that.



mc

Someone might want to ask the question: "What were the motivating factors for coach Cronin's hire in the first place?". Where was the emphasis placed...on simply winning basketball games, or on running a clean program totally devoid of controversy?

The question has to be asked, how low can MC take this program before he is fired? What are the standards?

If he misses the NCAA tourney this year, does he go? Does squeaking in next year keep his job for another year? We are being "Micked" right now. He could keep playing this game for another 10 years teetering between mediocrity and obsurity, and there will still be 100 fans standing around saying "we are lucky to have Mick". We couldn't be any more unlucky to have Mick.

(01-17-2016 09:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Comparing the Cronin era to the Yates era is just dumb. Bearcats have been a lot more successful. I pulled up UC's 3 point shooting percentage because I think it's good evidence that yesterday's awful shooting performance is not an accurate reflection on how they have shot the ball this year (as everyone is acting like they can't shoot). It's also not a product of just shooting well against bad teams. UC shot 8-21 (38.1%) against Butler, 7-21 (33.3%) against Iowa State and 7-19 (36.8%) in first Temple game (Just wanted to choose 3 losses to illustrate). The shooting yesterday was not reflective of this team generally.

I honestly wouldn't have been bothered by yesterday's game as much had they showed up defensively in the first game against Temple and got a win. When you have that bad of a shooting night it's hard to win and teams are going to have those. What bothered me most yesterday was the first 15 minutes of the second half when the offense was playing well (other than outside shooting) the defense let up and allowed Temple to play just as well offensively.

It is disappointing how the offense has completely fallen off since the first Temple game. After that game the offense was top 30 nationally in Kenpom... and the defense was outside the top 60. Since that game the defense has gotten itself back to a top 20 team nationally and the offense has fallen to 80 (which means it has been way worse of late). This team has shown capable of doing one or the other, but has not put it all together this year.

Why, cause you say so. No one is comparing Mick to Tony rather the dangers involved in coaching changes, or are you trying to say that UC basketball is so colossal that it will be elite even with a poor hire. FYI, we made two bad hires in a row during this time period: Ed Badger than Yates. Please explain why this could never happen again.

Well at least the Cats should be focused when the AAC tourny comes around.

(01-17-2016 09:29 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  The conference situation and the lack of a new arena have hurt the program more than most are willing to admit. I still contend that a renovated arena and locker room will provide some of the energy needed to recruit a higher level of player. Also, Mick needs to schedule better even if that includes more losses early in the year. There are a bunch of good schools in the A-10, Big East, Mountain West, Missouri Valley and WCC that would play home and homes with UC that would generate excitement so UC could cut down on the buy games. Next season UC will play Michigan, Xavier, Butler, Iowa State, and a solid tournament that might include a game with Duke. That is great news but the rest of schedule can't include RPI killers that give this program nothing. That is where scheduling one to two more high level programs and solid mid-major comes into play.

This is probably Mick's worst year since his early days. Coaching staff made a mistake early in the season with the defense which has complicated the teams growth on both ends. Once again the season isn't over and this team has the ability to go on a run and make the tournament. All its going to take is getting that one big road win over UConn or Memphis.

I agree with the majority of your post except for the conference situation. VCU, Witchita State have had great runs in lesser conferences. I don't buy that at all.

I would agree to this point this has been the worst coaching job of the Cronin era. Looking back at the last 4 years.
14-15: only returning experience two role players who play same position and they make tournament safely; great coaching job.
13-14: wins conference title in a league with defending national champ and the eventual national champ; great coaching job
12-13: limp into tournament as 10 seed; disappointing season but the team was playing great prior to Cashmere injury
11-12: the season they could do a 30 for 30 on. Loses to Presbyterian, the brawl. Plays great during conference play and makes sweet 16. Best coaching job of Cronin era hands down

I think coaching has been a positive over the last 5 years. My biggest complaint would be recruiting was poor in between the the Cash/SK/Yancy/Lance classes and the Troy/Gary/Evans/Cumberland classes. I do believe the recruiting has improved significantly and we should see results from that. Cronin has earned the benefit of the doubt that this underachieving season shouldn't put him on the hot seat if it doesn't improve.

I do have a big concern that when Troy leaves we should have the future point guard ready to go; I don't see that ever being Jenifer. If not in this class we need a high level PG desperately in next year's class.

(01-17-2016 11:56 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 09:29 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  The conference situation and the lack of a new arena have hurt the program more than most are willing to admit. I still contend that a renovated arena and locker room will provide some of the energy needed to recruit a higher level of player. Also, Mick needs to schedule better even if that includes more losses early in the year. There are a bunch of good schools in the A-10, Big East, Mountain West, Missouri Valley and WCC that would play home and homes with UC that would generate excitement so UC could cut down on the buy games. Next season UC will play Michigan, Xavier, Butler, Iowa State, and a solid tournament that might include a game with Duke. That is great news but the rest of schedule can't include RPI killers that give this program nothing. That is where scheduling one to two more high level programs and solid mid-major comes into play.

This is probably Mick's worst year since his early days. Coaching staff made a mistake early in the season with the defense which has complicated the teams growth on both ends. Once again the season isn't over and this team has the ability to go on a run and make the tournament. All its going to take is getting that one big road win over UConn or Memphis.

I agree with the majority of your post except for the conference situation. VCU, Witchita State have had great runs in lesser conferences. I don't buy that at all.

I would agree to this point this has been the worst coaching job of the Cronin era. Looking back at the last 4 years.
14-15: only returning experience two role players who play same position and they make tournament safely; great coaching job.
13-14: wins conference title in a league with defending national champ and the eventual national champ; great coaching job
12-13: limp into tournament as 10 seed; disappointing season but the team was playing great prior to Cashmere injury
11-12: the season they could do a 30 for 30 on. Loses to Presbyterian, the brawl. Plays great during conference play and makes sweet 16. Best coaching job of Cronin era hands down

I think coaching has been a positive over the last 5 years. My biggest complaint would be recruiting was poor in between the the Cash/SK/Yancy/Lance classes and the Troy/Gary/Evans/Cumberland classes. I do believe the recruiting has improved significantly and we should see results from that. Cronin has earned the benefit of the doubt that this underachieving season shouldn't put him on the hot seat if it doesn't improve.

I do have a big concern that when Troy leaves we should have the future point guard ready to go; I don't see that ever being Jenifer. If not in this class we need a high level PG desperately in next year's class.

Interesting, my big concern about Troy at this point is that he doesn't seem like a PG at all. I know true PG's are rare right now, but Troy is far too passive and not a strong enough ball handler or finisher., he seems much more like a SG to me. Jenifer seems like a total TO machine, which is the last thing that UC needs right now.

(01-17-2016 11:56 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 09:29 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  The conference situation and the lack of a new arena have hurt the program more than most are willing to admit. I still contend that a renovated arena and locker room will provide some of the energy needed to recruit a higher level of player. Also, Mick needs to schedule better even if that includes more losses early in the year. There are a bunch of good schools in the A-10, Big East, Mountain West, Missouri Valley and WCC that would play home and homes with UC that would generate excitement so UC could cut down on the buy games. Next season UC will play Michigan, Xavier, Butler, Iowa State, and a solid tournament that might include a game with Duke. That is great news but the rest of schedule can't include RPI killers that give this program nothing. That is where scheduling one to two more high level programs and solid mid-major comes into play.

This is probably Mick's worst year since his early days. Coaching staff made a mistake early in the season with the defense which has complicated the teams growth on both ends. Once again the season isn't over and this team has the ability to go on a run and make the tournament. All its going to take is getting that one big road win over UConn or Memphis.

I agree with the majority of your post except for the conference situation. VCU, Witchita State have had great runs in lesser conferences. I don't buy that at all.

I would agree to this point this has been the worst coaching job of the Cronin era. Looking back at the last 4 years.
14-15: only returning experience two role players who play same position and they make tournament safely; great coaching job.
13-14: wins conference title in a league with defending national champ and the eventual national champ; great coaching job
12-13: limp into tournament as 10 seed; disappointing season but the team was playing great prior to Cashmere injury
11-12: the season they could do a 30 for 30 on. Loses to Presbyterian, the brawl. Plays great during conference play and makes sweet 16. Best coaching job of Cronin era hands down

I think coaching has been a positive over the last 5 years. My biggest complaint would be recruiting was poor in between the the Cash/SK/Yancy/Lance classes and the Troy/Gary/Evans/Cumberland classes. I do believe the recruiting has improved significantly and we should see results from that. Cronin has earned the benefit of the doubt that this underachieving season shouldn't put him on the hot seat if it doesn't improve.

I do have a big concern that when Troy leaves we should have the future point guard ready to go; I don't see that ever being Jenifer. If not in this class we need a high level PG desperately in next year's class.

I think the conference downgrade really hurts because our closest rivals upgraded their situation. Mick use to recruit New York and the northeast region while in the Big East and that pipeline has closed up. Before four tournament bids in a row Wichita State had one NCAA bid and six NIT bids from 1988 to 2012. UC fans would not accept that at all. VCU on the other hand has made eight NCAA tournaments since 2004 and has received a conference upgrade to the A-10 via the CAA.

Mick has had some recruiting misses that have really hurt the program. I still contend that recruiting is starting to get better again but I am concerned that he hasn't been able land players at the level of Cash, Yancy, or SK.

(01-17-2016 09:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Comparing the Cronin era to the Yates era is just dumb. Bearcats have been a lot more successful. I pulled up UC's 3 point shooting percentage because I think it's good evidence that yesterday's awful shooting performance is not an accurate reflection on how they have shot the ball this year (as everyone is acting like they can't shoot). It's also not a product of just shooting well against bad teams. UC shot 8-21 (38.1%) against Butler, 7-21 (33.3%) against Iowa State and 7-19 (36.8%) in first Temple game (Just wanted to choose 3 losses to illustrate). The shooting yesterday was not reflective of this team generally.

I honestly wouldn't have been bothered by yesterday's game as much had they showed up defensively in the first game against Temple and got a win. When you have that bad of a shooting night it's hard to win and teams are going to have those. What bothered me most yesterday was the first 15 minutes of the second half when the offense was playing well (other than outside shooting) the defense let up and allowed Temple to play just as well offensively.

It is disappointing how the offense has completely fallen off since the first Temple game. After that game the offense was top 30 nationally in Kenpom... and the defense was outside the top 60. Since that game the defense has gotten itself back to a top 20 team nationally and the offense has fallen to 80 (which means it has been way worse of late). This team has shown capable of doing one or the other, but has not put it all together this year.

That has been my issue with this years team. They haven't been able to play both offense and defense and the same time. The idea was that an improved offense this along with a continued good to great defense would mean a significantly improved team, but what has happened is that as the offense improved the defense played worse and that every effort to improve the defense has resulted in worse offensive play.

I don't understand why this team can only seem to focus on one side or the other, but there is a good chance that it is going to result in a very disappointing season.

(01-17-2016 09:29 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  The conference situation and the lack of a new arena have hurt the program more than most are willing to admit. I still contend that a renovated arena and locker room will provide some of the energy needed to recruit a higher level of player. Also, Mick needs to schedule better even if that includes more losses early in the year. There are a bunch of good schools in the A-10, Big East, Mountain West, Missouri Valley and WCC that would play home and homes with UC that would generate excitement so UC could cut down on the buy games. Next season UC will play Michigan, Xavier, Butler, Iowa State, and a solid tournament that might include a game with Duke. That is great news but the rest of schedule can't include RPI killers that give this program nothing. That is where scheduling one to two more high level programs and solid mid-major comes into play.

This is probably Mick's worst year since his early days. Coaching staff made a mistake early in the season with the defense which has complicated the teams growth on both ends. Once again the season isn't over and this team has the ability to go on a run and make the tournament. All its going to take is getting that one big road win over UConn or Memphis.

What happens when Mick receives the new arena and still whiffs? He is running out of excuses. I think the conference may play a part. However, this is not like football. Eggs did well in a lesser conference for years. Gonzaga has built a nationally recognized program in a lesser conference. Mick does not receive the recruits, because he has not shown the ability to produce NBA talent. Why play for a middling coach, when there are proven coaches out there?

I would venture to say those on this board are diehards. When I see the core of UC's fanbase is fed up and despondent, I wonder how casual fans see UC. At work no one talks about UC anymore. They do not register nationally or even in their own backyard.

It's not the conference. Team slike Wichita State, Gonzaga, Butler (pre Big East), Creighton (pre Big East), XU (pre big east) etc. all prove you can have a nationally relevant program without being in a high major conference.

(01-17-2016 08:46 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  It's not the conference. Team slike Wichita State, Gonzaga, Butler (pre Big East), Creighton (pre Big East), XU (pre big east) etc. all prove you can have a nationally relevant program without being in a high major conference.

Interesting to note that most of the teams above have benefited from major arena renovations and/or much better facilities than UC.

Wichita State...About 10 years ago, Univ spent $25 Million renovation that gutted the entire concourse and brand new seating:



Creighton: Fairly new downtown city arena:



Butler's Hinkle Fieldhouse in 2011 went thru a major modern renovation project (scoreboards, brand new chair seating, etc...) but kept the historic facade on their famous arena:





The small catholic school Gonzaga, built/opened their new on-campus arena in 2004:



Once UC completely renovates their multi-use "box" arena and turn it into a real basketball arena, UC Hoops will gain a HUGE boost on the recruiting trail and maybe more importantly, a huge shot in the arm of new basketball revenue streams...as even with less seats, the new modern arena will bring in a lot more game day revenue, from higher donations to higher ticket prices, to more premium seating options, etc...

UC is obviously one of the most historic hoop programs in the country...but so many P5 programs plus even some basketball only mid-major programs have much nicer hoop facilities than UC Hoops...but hopefully in another 2 years or so, that will finally change.

I'll say it.

In my opinion, the vast majority of programs violate NCAA rules (cheat) during the recruiting process. Perhaps we settle for imperfect recruits because we do not have the $$ and right kind of boosters to compete with the major programs.

Think a private school like xu doesn't have a recruiting advantage over publicly funded schools like UC? Think again. As a private institution, xu has many more dark places in which to hide things. Much less vulnerable to public scrutiny.

(01-18-2016 09:30 AM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I'll say it.

In my opinion, the vast majority of programs violate NCAA rules (cheat) during the recruiting process. Perhaps we settle for imperfect recruits because we do not have the $$ and right kind of boosters to compete with the major programs.

Think a private school like xu doesn't have a recruiting advantage over publicly funded schools like UC? Think again. As a private institution, xu has many more dark places in which to hide things. Much less vulnerable to public scrutiny.

If it were that easy...then all private schools in the country would always dominate college hoops (football too per your opinion)..and while a few are very good programs, most are not.

Just because another program has had better success that automatically shouldn't mean that they only did so because they cheat, either private or public institutions.

(01-18-2016 10:08 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 09:30 AM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I'll say it.

In my opinion, the vast majority of programs violate NCAA rules (cheat) during the recruiting process. Perhaps we settle for imperfect recruits because we do not have the $$ and right kind of boosters to compete with the major programs.

Think a private school like xu doesn't have a recruiting advantage over publicly funded schools like UC? Think again. As a private institution, xu has many more dark places in which to hide things. Much less vulnerable to public scrutiny.

If it were that easy...then all private schools in the country would always dominate college hoops (football too per your opinion)..and while a few are very good programs, most are not.

Just because another program has had better success that automatically shouldn't mean that they only did so because they cheat, either private or public institutions.

Well, we KNOW...it's not really disputable...that Xavier has recruited a type of kid that UC has not. And I DO NOT mean that as a negative criticism of Mick. But Xavier...especially under Mack...has gone out and looked for kids who embody the "Goon" and "Gangster" mentality that UC, smarting from the "Thuggins" label, has passed on.

And they [Xavier] have used their "Catholic" identity to white-wash these kids where an "Urban" and "Public" university like UC would catch no end of grief for recruiting kids like that. In fact, the "Zip em' up" quote would have been permanently hung around the UC program's neck, but because Xavier is perceived as "Catholic" and therefore "white," it became endearing.

But it is really not possible to argue that Xavier has a much clearer shot at picking up kids who are trouble than UC does. And, in fact, bad things ***could*** happen with those kids and it would be hushed up, whereas UC's players will get splashed across the front pages...even when they've been graduated and gone from the University for 20 years.

If Mick burns out this year, UC should really.consider going after Jarod Haase. A second option I would look at would be Brad Underwood.