http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/201...ordinator/

A lot of improvement needed there for the Texans. Even giving up a 105-yard kickoff return for a touchdown would be a step in the right direction.

From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd

(01-15-2016 08:39 PM)Baconator Wrote:  From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd

did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards? Not meant as a slur towards him, but seems like he and people like rodrigo barnes were always a little different breed of cat.

(01-16-2016 12:57 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 08:39 PM)Baconator Wrote:  From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd

did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards? Not meant as a slur towards him, but seems like he and people like rodrigo barnes were always a little different breed of cat.

Are you trying to imply that you can't be "a little different breed of cat" and smart at the same time? He graduated from the same Rice University you did, didn't he? Should it matter how he was admitted if he was able to successfully complete the degree requirements of the university? From my perspective, your question may not be a slur against him, but it is inappropriate all the same.

(01-16-2016 12:57 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards?

No, not really.

By the time he was admitted, the standards were pretty much what they are today. The process was simpler, and IMO better, but the standards were pretty much the same.

The period of lower recruiting standards was from about 1971 to 1988, with the lowest standards probably around 1980. Bill Peterson got them lowered somewhat, and so did Homer Rice. There was a period when the administration point of view seemed to be, "We'll give you lower admission standards as long as you don't spend any money."

It's interesting to look at football victory totals during those years. 3,5,5,2,2,3,1,2,1,5,4,0,1,1,3,4,2,0. That's 44 wins in 18 years, or 2.4 per year. Men's basketball in the same time frame was awful as well, 14,6,7,11,5,3,9,4,7,7,12,15,8,13,11,9,8,6, making 155 wins in 18 seasons, or 8.6 per season. And IIRC, Rice did not win a single conference championship in any sport throughout those 18 years. When people argue that lowering academic standards is the key to success, that's simply not what the record would indicate. Investing money in athletics probably is the key to success, but the department is going to have to demonstrate a positive return on that investment before the BOT is going to spend the money, and I don't disagree with them on that point.

(01-16-2016 12:57 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 08:39 PM)Baconator Wrote:  From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd

did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards? Not meant as a slur towards him, but seems like he and people like rodrigo barnes were always a little different breed of cat.

Izzo and I were the same year at Rice, and while I didn't have any classes with him, we often talked during our nightly ***** on the football field. It was a very communal time at Rice. Jocks, non-jocks, even some faculty enjoyed a harmonious era of pre-Twitter, pre-Facebook, pre-IBS discourse and evacuation. A good dude and an even better wiper.

(01-16-2016 04:56 PM)smackdaddy Wrote:  Izzo and I were the same year at Rice, and while I didn't have any classes with him, we often talked during our nightly ***** on the football field.

(01-16-2016 05:04 PM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 04:56 PM)smackdaddy Wrote:  Izzo and I were the same year at Rice, and while I didn't have any classes with him, we often talked during our nightly ***** on the football field.

He said he was a good wiper, so it's all good.

Too much information. WAAAYY too much information.

(01-16-2016 02:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 12:57 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards?

No, not really.

By the time he was admitted, the standards were pretty much what they are today. The process was simpler, and IMO better, but the standards were pretty much the same.

The period of lower recruiting standards was from about 1971 to 1988, with the lowest standards probably around 1980. Bill Peterson got them lowered somewhat, and so did Homer Rice. There was a period when the administration point of view seemed to be, "We'll give you lower admission standards as long as you don't spend any money."

It's interesting to look at football victory totals during those years. 3,5,5,2,2,3,1,2,1,5,4,0,1,1,3,4,2,0. That's 44 wins in 18 years, or 2.4 per year. Men's basketball in the same time frame was awful as well, 14,6,7,11,5,3,9,4,7,7,12,15,8,13,11,9,8,6, making 155 wins in 18 seasons, or 8.6 per season. And IIRC, Rice did not win a single conference championship in any sport throughout those 18 years. When people argue that lowering academic standards is the key to success, that's simply not what the record would indicate. Investing money in athletics probably is the key to success, but the department is going to have to demonstrate a positive return on that investment before the BOT is going to spend the money, and I don't disagree with them on that point.

I appreciate you posting this data and commentary on this, OWL69, as it makes a good point in a much clearer way. Looking at your post, it can be construed that the decisions made about not spending money back in this period might have been a legitimate attempt to solve the problems of Rice's competitiveness from people who were perhaps a tad more well-intentioned than some of us have given them credit for.

Still not good choices, and clearly what they did didn't work, but perhaps they really believed that the main issue was lowering the academic standards a bit and that alone would solve the competitiveness problem. Spectacular failure. But maybe to them it was seen as an 'either/or' (my quotes) trade-off in choices of what to do.

Having been through that 'experiment' I would say it is settled that lower academic standards alone (and by that I mean only lower by Rice's high standards) will not work independent of other major changes. But it does not preclude the idea that we can simultaneously approach things from a more balancing Stanford-type model academically to help us get a few extra recruits in here rather than over there. (Fortunately our current AD should be familiar with that model.) Clearly we aren't ever going to stoop to UMiami levels of 'scholarship' for our athletes, nor should we.

As to the your two statements I highlighted, the crux of my concern in football is that the investment in the current leadership has not seen a high enough return so as to warrant more and more enthusiastic investment from the BOT to levels I believe are needed for success. The concern is the level necessary to shake loose more dollars should have already occurred in 10 years under 1 coach. Many have said that just giving the present coach more money likely won't solve anything; however making more available for assistants might, but only if he was willing to hire people who had more football smarts than he has demonstrated, and it is uncertain if he would as he might be less comfortable if a potential viable replacement was on his staff at this juncture.

Either way, it would seem reasonable and even prudent for the AD and the BOT to consider the bar raised a bit for next season's football expectations to something greater than what has already been done, which does not appear to be enough for them to throw significantly more dollars at. So I will agree with you that "Investing money in athletics probably is the key to success." (your quote.)

(01-16-2016 01:25 PM)mbrindley Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 12:57 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 08:39 PM)Baconator Wrote:  From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd

did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards? Not meant as a slur towards him, but seems like he and people like rodrigo barnes were always a little different breed of cat.

I did not take a dump on the sideline, so don't be such an a**

Are you trying to imply that you can't be "a little different breed of cat" and smart at the same time? He graduated from the same Rice University you did, didn't he? Should it matter how he was admitted if he was able to successfully complete the degree requirements of the university? From my perspective, your question may not be a slur against him, but it is inappropriate all the same.

Rodrigo was one of three Black recruits who entered with us in the fall of '68; they were, I think, the first African- American guys to play football at Rice. (Stahle Vincent and Mike Tyler were the other two.) Roy (that's what he went by) was plenty bright and plenty acculturated; he was considered a really good guy who was quite popular on campus. Whereas Stahle was the hard core studious one, and positively brilliant, and Mike was the more boisterous type, Roy hit it just right down the middle. Believe me, those guys were under constant scrutiny; any academic deficiencies woul have been pounced upon. Roy then and now was/is a great friend to have, and I value very much the impromptu mini-reunions I get to have when chancing to see him every few years.

(01-16-2016 08:28 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 01:25 PM)mbrindley Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 12:57 PM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 08:39 PM)Baconator Wrote:  From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd

did Izzo get admitted during a period of lower recruiting standards? Not meant as a slur towards him, but seems like he and people like rodrigo barnes were always a little different breed of cat.

I did not take a dump on the sideline, so don't be such an a**

Are you trying to imply that you can't be "a little different breed of cat" and smart at the same time? He graduated from the same Rice University you did, didn't he? Should it matter how he was admitted if he was able to successfully complete the degree requirements of the university? From my perspective, your question may not be a slur against him, but it is inappropriate all the same.

I'm not being an a**. Lots of top athletes do strange stuff like this. If you've ever watched the Tour de France, cyclists run off the side of the road all the time. I don't see how that ties to lowered academic standards at all. Just because someone makes the decision to take a dump on the sideline, says nothing about their academic abilities or intelligence. It simply says they made a choice that you wouldn't make and you might not agree with.

http://espn.go.com/espn/news/story?page=Mag15taoofpoo

(01-17-2016 09:53 AM)Ricefootballnet Wrote:  Rodrigo was one of three Black recruits who entered with us in the fall of '68; they were, I think, the first African- American guys to play football at Rice. (Stahle Vincent and Mike Tyler were the other two.) Roy (that's what he went by) was plenty bright and plenty acculturated; he was considered a really good guy who was quite popular on campus. Whereas Stahle was the hard core studious one, and positively brilliant, and Mike was the more boisterous type, Roy hit it just right down the middle. Believe me, those guys were under constant scrutiny; any academic deficiencies woul have been pounced upon. Roy then and now was/is a great friend to have, and I value very much the impromptu mini-reunions I get to have when chancing to see him every few years.

All three of them were truly great guys. I see Roy more frequently than Stahle, and Mike unfortunately has passed, but I have always enjoyed seeing them again. Roy won a Super Bowl ring with the Raiders, and in recent years has been in education and worked in several capacities with troubled and disadvantaged youth. Sorry, don't recall the exact specifics right now. Most of us would do very well to have had the career that he has.

(01-16-2016 06:09 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Looking at your post, it can be construed that the decisions made about not spending money back in this period might have been a legitimate attempt to solve the problems of Rice's competitiveness from people who were perhaps a tad more well-intentioned than some of us have given them credit for.

I tend to think of them as stupid choices made by idiots, but perhaps I should be more charitable.

I think all three re-connected with Rice in the last few years (primarily because of the efforts of the foorball staff). Mike seemed very happy to be included until he passed away in 2014.

(01-17-2016 12:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Roy won a Super Bowl ring with the Raiders, and in recent years has been in education and worked in several capacities with troubled and disadvantaged youth. Sorry, don't recall the exact specifics right now. Most of us would do very well to have had the career that he has.

This website says he's assistant principal of the Garland Alternative Education Center. WTG, Roy!!

The second derivative of a bodily function.

(01-15-2016 08:39 PM)Baconator Wrote:  From another article:

While with the Patriots, Izzo once received a game ball after "doing number two" on the sideline during a game without Patriots head coach Bill Belichick noticing.[11][12]

#rfnd