According to preliminary reports, Conference USA could be facing a drastic reduction in television revenue, to the point where it might end up slightly less than what the MAC is getting now from ESPN on a per-school basis. Once you also figure in travel costs, Marshall may be in a worse financial situation in that league than they would be in the MAC.

At least a few Herd fans are beginning to wonder if it is time to rethink their decision to leave the MAC.

Obviously, most of us have complicated feelings about Marshall. Even so, it seems to me that Marshall were to have any interest in rejoining the MAC, the MAC should seize the opportunity and add Marshall. Let the past be in the past, even if that means having 13 members for a while.

There would be downsides to this, obviously:

1. It would be another mouth to feed. The MAC would have to split BCS money 13 ways instead of 12, and the same might turn out to be true for our TV contract with ESPN.

2. Marshall twice left our conference under the cloud of a major cheating scandal. Is there a basis for trust this time?

3. 13 is not a great number for scheduling.

But the upside is pretty obvious, too. Marshall has a good football program. They bring a lot of energy and fan support. Some of those Toledo-Marshall and Miami-Marshall football games were absolutely electric back in the day. Adding Marshall wouldn't drive up travel costs for MAC schools, and yet they do bring us a new market.

It may be that the new Conference USA television contract turns out to be better than these initial reports are suggesting. Even if the reports are true, it may take time for Marshall fans to accept this inconvenient truth: There isn't really a gap between the MAC and Conference USA any more.

On the other hand, there may be something here. Some Marshall fans prefer playing southern schools, but how much is that preference worth? An extra $500,000 per year? An extra $1 million per year?

It seems to me the MAC just might be on the brink of an opportunity here that doesn't come along very often.

What do you all think? If Marshall came asking to join the MAC, should the MAC add Marshall?

I say yes.

Granted it's a tiny sample size, but one of the main reasons Marshall fans wanted out was for their strong regional and cultural affinity for the South (so, by extension, I'd assume the administration has/had the same yearnings). That's a big hurdle.

There's also the pride thing... rejoining would essentially admit to a whoopsie. And I think there will always be some lingering bad blood between it and the MAC over the last two exits, even if the names and faces change.

I think it'd be fun having them in the MAC, it created a fun - albeit often contentious - atmosphere here, but I don't give it good odds at all.

I don't see that happening from a MAC standpoint. Mainly because of point #1 with some of point #2 added in for good measure. I think everyone needs to pump the brakes a bit and not panic. CUSA was the first to have to deal with TV negotiations since the P5/G5 split. Time will tell what happens to the other G5 contracts. When all is said and done, things might just end up where we started.

Eventually, IF all G5's lose a significant amount of money from TV revenue, we might see a G5 shuffle. We all saw how the "market" approach to adding members has failed dismally, I think we need to align with solid programs instead. I definitely wouldn't mind being in a conference with NIU, Toledo, and Ohio again, but I would hate to leave USM.

Of course, some say to prepare for a bunch of airport meetings and that the MAC, CUSA, and the Belt will combine their best teams to form a conference comparable to the MWC and could rival the AAC, but I think that is wishful thinking.

(01-18-2016 11:02 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  There's also the pride thing... rejoining would essentially admit to a whoopsie.

That's a big hurdle. Even if Marshall administrators ran the numbers and realized they could do better in the MAC, could they bring their fans around?

I could be wrong about this, but my memory is that the ($2.5 million?) Conference USA expansion fee was mostly paid by one booster. Imagine being that person. It would be very tough now to admit that your entire investment was for naught.

(01-18-2016 11:04 AM)THUNDERGround Wrote:  CUSA was the first to have to deal with TV negotiations since the P5/G5 split.

The MAC got its deal in 2014. I'll grant that the timing was good -- before ESPN started notably trimming expenses. But since it is a 13-year deal, I'm not sure how much of a risk this really is.

Leave the MAC once, shame on you.
Leave the MAC twice, shame on us.

What rhymes with thrice?

(01-18-2016 11:08 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 11:02 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  There's also the pride thing... rejoining would essentially admit to a whoopsie.

That's a big hurdle. Even if Marshall administrators ran the numbers and realized they could do better in the MAC, could they bring their fans around?

I could be wrong about this, but my memory is that the ($2.5 million?) Conference USA expansion fee was mostly paid by one booster. Imagine being that person. It would be very tough now to admit that your entire investment was for naught.

The CUSA Marshall joined is now called the AAC and MU isn't in it. The money loss isn't the end of the world (about same as MAC) but why have a loss plus the extra expense to play non rival teams in the new CUSA. Marshall goes back to the MAC and takes UMass's spot and life goes on.

Marshall doesnt want to play any mid week home games at all though. Maybe play a Maction game at the cross division away game. Never at any home games. So there's the hang up.

Bringing in Marshall, Western Kentucky, ODU and MTSU, would probably pacify Herd fans because then you could have North-South divisions. By going to 14, a few under achieving existing schools (fill-in the-blanks) would have to drop to FCS. No doubt, it would be in theirs, and the MAC's best interest.

North Div. - Toledo, NIU, WMU, Buffalo, CMU, Akron, BG

South Div. - Ohio, Marshall, WKU, Miami, MTSU, ODU, Ball State

Or eliminate the last school listed in each division that begins with a B.
Twelve members!! PERFECT !!

Well, it would be entertaining for us message board posters, that's for sure.

Yes Marshall seems like a natural fit but No, it won't happen. The reasons it won't happen are-

- That ship has sailed. both parties have moved on.
- CFP conference payouts are for up to 12 teams max, adding more than 12 isn't financially beneficial.
- the MAC/ESPN deal is set through 2027, adding another team isn't going to increase that payout either.
- Marshall alums are located more in the South than the Midwest, also fans and alums identify more as Southerns than Midwesterners.
- Marshall can still play a couple of MAC teams every year in OOC and provide the advantage of having local away games to their fans.

(01-18-2016 11:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Leave the MAC once, shame on you.
Leave the MAC twice, shame on us.

What rhymes with thrice?

Caitlyn Jenner?

(01-18-2016 11:44 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  - CFP conference payouts are for up to 12 teams max, adding more than 12 isn't financially beneficial.
- the MAC/ESPN deal is set through 2027, adding another team isn't going to increase that payout either.

I understand these down sides. But if the opportunity to add Marshall came along, I think the MAC should do it anyway. The revenue loss isn't that big. Long term, the conference would be stronger with another good football program. Some schools would get a bit of a bump at the gate. TV ratings might improve just a bit. When it comes time to renegotiate with ESPN, we would have more value to offer.

If one of the MAC schools departs for whatever reason, then consider bringing them or WKU aboard. Otherwise, no thanks.

I wouldn't mind adding WKU to the west and Marshall to the east to make it a 14 team league.

(01-18-2016 11:18 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Leave the MAC once, shame on you.
Leave the MAC twice, shame on us.

What rhymes with thrice?

What rhymes with any of the other words in that saying?

The MAC should never be larger than 12 and I would be happy with as few as 9 or 10. In no particular order, here are the only schools in the G5 worth considering for full membership into the MAC if there was ever a need to backfill-

- UConn
- Cinci*
- Temple*
- Marshall*
- Army
- UMass*


*former member

(01-18-2016 02:58 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The MAC should never be larger than 12 and I would be happy with as few as 9 or 10. In no particular order, here are the only schools in the G5 worth considering for full membership into the MAC if there was ever a need to backfill-

- UConn
- Cinci*
- Temple*
- Marshall*
- Army
- UMass*

*former member

Setting Marshall aside: If any of those other schools were to seek full membership in the MAC (or, in Army's case, football-only affiliation), then the MAC should say yes immediately. Even if that puts us at 13.

Marshall is a somewhat more dubious case. The academics aren't quite as strong there. But the football is strong, they make a lot of geographical sense, and they have a lot of history with this league. I think if they were available, the MAC should go get them. Even if that puts us at 13.

The only other school that I would put on your list is Stony Brook. That's a very good school near an enormous market. If Stony Brook were ever to seek MAC membership, bring them in and let's see if they can grow like Buffalo has. Even if we have 13 schools for a while.

I don't know that anyone else out there brings as much to the table. For example, this article on Hustle Belt last fall seemed kind of silly.

If push came to shove on expansion I'd rather take a flyer on Delaware and Illinois State to bookend the conference and go to 14, than have Marshall back back back in the MAC to only get to 13.

No reason for the MAC to think about inviting Marshall until another MAC team leaves the conference. If a team does leave then Marshall should be at the top of the list to invite. No reason for the MAC to want to expand past 12 teams.

Marshall's issue is going to be cost for them to leave CUSA and if the difference in TV money plus lower travel expenses on top of playing weeknight November MACtion games are worth the move.

Not that I want us to expand past 12, but I don't think there's any chance that we add Marshall and stop there. We'd add WKU to get an even 14, JMU if they said no.