(01-15-2016 10:09 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  What the hell does program size mean? Over the last 7 years or so we average more fans. Last year was probably the only year flipped in Houston's favor. Our budget is higher and academics I believe rate higher. In basketball both programs draw flies, but Houston draws ASUN level crowds.

Argument needs to be market size for Houston and coming off a big win. You guys had a great year but calm down. In average years you draw -30k. In most years ucf is pushing close to 40k fans.

Ok...... The hate runs strong with this one.....

1st off our stadium capacity was 32k (less than that for part of 2013) until last year.

2nd we have and will continue to address the attendance issue its not something fixed overnight. We are somewhere into about year 8-10 of the focus with room to grow. Not too long ago (10 years ago) we averaged 15k for the whole season!

Not something to brag about but not any breaking news buddy. we have more than doubled our numbers in 10 years and I'd say an additional 5-10k is a safe number to see in the next 5-10 years. That puts us at 39-44k (our capacity is 40k plus standing room only right now).

If we are still on the outside looking in I'd say that is a more accurate and fair number to see in the near future and it will grow from there.

As far as budge don't even..... I'd argue our subsidy is too large to be perfectly honest (also being addressed) but as far as how much we spend try again......

In the fiscal year that ended in August 2015 we spent 45.4 million. The most recent numbers I could find on UCF show you spent 47 million. Both of us have large subsidies 45.9% and 53.9% (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/). I'd argue the numbers are close enough to call it a wash on both, but if you want to nit pick I'd say UCF makes a little more and takes a little less than UH. But again we are just grasping a straws here.....

Dial back the rhetoric and know we are all looking at the same goal.

(01-15-2016 10:28 AM)3rdWardCoog Wrote:  You can say UH only had 31k fans which looks bad but that 96% capacity to the stadium we had at that time.

Closer to 99%.... (99.15% to be accurate) but whose counting.......

(01-15-2016 12:05 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Enough with the whining, Boren. Sh!t or get off the pot.

Don't worry, when he concludes that there definitely won't be a conference network and an enlarged footprint in the Big XII's future, the Sooners will be leaving. One would think that after losing Nebraska, Texas A&M and Mizzou to other conferences, Texas and their puppets would be less cocky.

(01-15-2016 11:09 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 12:05 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Enough with the whining, Boren. Sh!t or get off the pot.

Don't worry, when he concludes that there definitely won't be a conference network and an enlarged footprint in the Big XII's future, the Sooners will be leaving. One would think that after losing Nebraska, Texas A&M and Mizzou to other conferences, Texas and their puppets would be less cocky.

The issue is that Texas doesn't care. At all.

Texas makes more money right now from TV deals than they would in any other conference. There's no incentive for a conference network, because they'd make less money. Sure, itd stabilize the conference but does stability really matter to them when they could join another major conference whenever they want?

Not like this would ever happen, but I think the ACC would be bold in offering Oklahoma a spot. Offer ND full membership, if they want to remain partial. I would actually offer Houston the 16th spot and allow ND to remain partial. 7 Div game and Rival game across Div

Florida State vs Miami (FL)
North Carolina vs NC State
Duke vs Wake Forest
Clemson vs Louisville
Syracuse vs Boston College
Georgia Tech vs Pittsburgh
Houston vs OK
Virginia vs Virginia Tech

With 19 Teams for Basketball
18 game division games with H and A switched every year and top 16 make ACC Tourney.

Again never going to happen.

(01-15-2016 09:31 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  So adding an AAC or MWC school changes their little brother status?

Replacing the LHN with a Big XII Network does. In order to do that, the Big XII needs to add TV markets.

(01-15-2016 11:13 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not like this would ever happen, but I think the ACC would be bold in offering Oklahoma a spot. Offer ND full membership, if they want to remain partial. I would actually offer Houston the 16th spot and allow ND to remain partial. 7 Div game and Rival game across Div

Florida State vs Miami (FL)
North Carolina vs NC State
Duke vs Wake Forest
Clemson vs Louisville
Syracuse vs Boston College
Georgia Tech vs Pittsburgh
Houston vs OK
Virginia vs Virginia Tech

With 19 Teams for Basketball
18 game division games with H and A switched every year and top 16 make ACC Tourney.

Again never going to happen.

Houston would never get the nod over Oklahoma State. Never in a million years.

(01-15-2016 09:31 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whether it happens or not, dissecting this statement: “We’ll look at the fan base, we’ll look at the size of their programs, we’ll look at the academics of the institutions. We’ll look at them comprehensively as to which is the best fit. And also we’ll consider geography to a certain degree.”

I think Houston and Cincy are the two that on all criteria. Houston's only hitch possibly being the fan base, but in the Big12 I think that is a non issue. UCONN is Houston's competition IMO, with geography being the biggest hurdle. Also, I'm going to assume that if BYU were in the mix, their coach would not have ditched them for UVA... Also do not think BSU is in the mix either as they'll look east and to the AAC...

USF misses on program size and fan base
UCF misses on program size and academics
ECU see UCF
Memphis misses on academics
Temple misses on fan base
Tulane missed on fan base and program size

You can't assume anything based on Mendenhall's decision. The big donors in the BYU Coaches Circle wanted him out, so he took the first opportunity available. Win-win situation.

BYU's recruiting has already seen the benefits: Sitake and Detmer have already landed two 4-star recruits in the last month - one a poly DL, who had offers from USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, and the Ewetes; the other a speedy CB/WR, who chose BYU over Oregon and USC. Both enrolled early - already on campus (I talked with both on Wednesday).

I don't think Mendenhall's staff would have landed either.

So, put BYU back into the mix of the 6 or 7 schools from which the Big 12 would pick the right two.

I'm not saying that BYU is a shoe-in; there are too many voices and variables; but, BYU ticks off every box mentioned by Boren but geography - which the Big 12 will consider "to a certain degree." I believe that means that one of the two candidates will make sense for WVU's geography - at least in the Eastern Timezone.

- FAN BASE: averages 60K attendance for 30 years; usually in the top-30 for all of college football - would be top-3 in Big 12; strong TV ratings the last 3-5 years.

Also, averages 15K attendance at men's basketball (usually top-10) and regularly finishes in the top-3 in attendance for women's soccer and men's and women's volleyball.

- SIZE OF PROGRAM: #68 in AD Revenue at $59M in 2014-15, just ahead of Wake Forest and a step behind the Ewetes, Georgia Tech, Rutgers, and Iowa St. - without a P5-level media contract. (UConn is the #1 candidate here - #53 with $72M).

The BYU AD consistently brings in a PROFIT and is mandated to be self-sufficient, without ANY subsidy from the University General Fund or LDS Church tithing monies.

- ACADEMICS: #62 - just behind UConn (#58) and well ahead of any other expansion candidate and most of the Big 12.

- GEOGRAPHY: obviously a poor match to partner with WVU; however, closer to most of the rest of the Big 12 than UConn, UCF, USF. Behind Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati in terms of proximity. Offers the Big 12 Network the late Saturday inventory spot.

Again, I'm not saying that BYU is in - but don't count them out. And, don't overlook the fact that WVU's current university president is LDS and a former BYU law professor and associate dean.

(01-15-2016 11:13 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not like this would ever happen, but I think the ACC would be bold in offering Oklahoma a spot. Offer ND full membership, if they want to remain partial. I would actually offer Houston the 16th spot and allow ND to remain partial. 7 Div game and Rival game across Div

Florida State vs Miami (FL)
North Carolina vs NC State
Duke vs Wake Forest
Clemson vs Louisville
Syracuse vs Boston College
Georgia Tech vs Pittsburgh
Houston vs OK
Virginia vs Virginia Tech

With 19 Teams for Basketball
18 game division games with H and A switched every year and top 16 make ACC Tourney.

Again never going to happen.

If OU leaves, I think they're likely to try to bring OSU with them. They're not joined by law (like rumors say), but I still think they try to go as a package deal.

(01-15-2016 11:20 AM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 11:13 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Not like this would ever happen, but I think the ACC would be bold in offering Oklahoma a spot. Offer ND full membership, if they want to remain partial. I would actually offer Houston the 16th spot and allow ND to remain partial. 7 Div game and Rival game across Div

Florida State vs Miami (FL)
North Carolina vs NC State
Duke vs Wake Forest
Clemson vs Louisville
Syracuse vs Boston College
Georgia Tech vs Pittsburgh
Houston vs OK
Virginia vs Virginia Tech

With 19 Teams for Basketball
18 game division games with H and A switched every year and top 16 make ACC Tourney.

Again never going to happen.

If OU leaves, I think they're likely to try to bring OSU with them. They're not joined by law (like rumors say), but I still think they try to go as a package deal.

They might try, but I don't see any other "autonomy 5" conference wanting both schools.

(01-15-2016 11:18 AM)YNot Wrote:  ...
So, put BYU back into the mix of the 6 or 7 schools from which the Big 12 would pick the right two.

I'm not saying that BYU is a shoe-in; there are too many voices and variables; but, BYU ticks off every box mentioned by Boren but geography - which the Big 12 will consider "to a certain degree." I believe that means that one of the two candidates will make sense for WVU's geography - at least in the Eastern Timezone.

- FAN BASE: averages 60K attendance for 30 years; usually in the top-30 for all of college football - would be top-3 in Big 12; strong TV ratings the last 3-5 years.

Also, averages 15K attendance at men's basketball (usually top-10) and regularly finishes in the top-3 in attendance for women's soccer and men's and women's volleyball.

- SIZE OF PROGRAM: #68 in AD Revenue at $59M in 2014-15, just ahead of Wake Forest and a step behind the Ewetes, Georgia Tech, Rutgers, and Iowa St. - without a P5-level media contract. (UConn is the #1 candidate here - #53 with $72M).

The BYU AD consistently brings in a PROFIT and is mandated to be self-sufficient, without ANY subsidy from the University General Fund or LDS Church tithing monies.

- ACADEMICS: #62 - just behind UConn (#58) and well ahead of any other expansion candidate and most of the Big 12.

- GEOGRAPHY: obviously a poor match to partner with WVU; however, closer to most of the rest of the Big 12 than UConn, UCF, USF. Behind Houston, Memphis, and Cincinnati in terms of proximity. Offers the Big 12 Network the late Saturday inventory spot.

Again, I'm not saying that BYU is in - but don't count them out. And, don't overlook the fact that WVU's current university president is LDS and a former BYU law professor and associate dean.

I should mention that the main reason why BYU would accept the Big 12 invite - like pretty much anyone else - is to be welcomed in as part of the Club.

If Boren sees 6 or 7 teams that would qualify for Big 12 consideration, that means half the AAC is deemed "worthy." Personally, I would like to see BYU and the AAC join forces to make a nationwide conference - and take a shot at building P5-level AD revenues, through improving facilities and increasing attendance and TV ratings. FWIW.

If Oklahoma goes to the SEC, they go without Oklahoma State is all likelihood, hope it doesn't come to that. The LHN needs to be rolled into the B12 Network, but the Longhorns will probably never agree to it, would be a large financial loss. Oklahoma is rumored to have 6 votes out of 10 in hopes of expansion, but need 8 to accomplish it, evidently the 4 Texas schools are all in opposition to expansion, sticking with the Longhorns.

(01-15-2016 09:33 AM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 09:31 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whether it happens or not, dissecting this statement: “We’ll look at the fan base, we’ll look at the size of their programs, we’ll look at the academics of the institutions. We’ll look at them comprehensively as to which is the best fit. And also we’ll consider geography to a certain degree.”

I think Houston and Cincy are the two that on all criteria. Houston's only hitch possibly being the fan base, but in the Big12 I think that is a non issue. UCONN is Houston's competition IMO, with geography being the biggest hurdle. Also, I'm going to assume that if BYU were in the mix, their coach would not have ditched them for UVA... Also do not think BSU is in the mix either as they'll look east and to the AAC...

USF misses on program size and fan base
UCF misses on program size and academics
ECU see UCF
Memphis misses on academics
Temple misses on fan base
Tulane missed on fan base and program size

Wait a second... You say UCF misses on academics but USF doesn't? They're every so slightly higher ranked academically, but certainly not enough to move the needle.

...and BOTH are higher ranked than Houston which you say is fine academically.

Ive said this in many posts and it isnt a slight on UCF. UCF is a fine school. Its Tier 1, it has a good reputation and a person will get a quality education there....but no, you arent near USF.

US News Rankings arent a good indicator at all. Its very slighted toward the schools in the major conferences and includes garbage that shouldnt be included. Its nice to be top 100 but they arent a true measure of academic ranking.

Universally amongst schools, Research is considered to be a leading indicator of strength. Another is endowment, patents, number of professors in the academy... stuff like that.
All of those are not subject to bias and opinion, which US News does.

Like I said, UCF is a good school but you dont touch the level of research we do. Were top 10 in the nation for patents. Our endowment is 4 times your size and we have more professors within the academy than you. All independent indicators, USF is well ahead of UCF.

This doesnt make UCF a bad school. USF was started as a research university. UCF wasnt. Thats the main reason of the difference. UCF has done a great job of catching up but saying that the US News ranking means were really close just simply isnt true.

With all that said, I dont think either of us goes to the Big 12 without the other. We just make sense as a package... and it would be very smart. I do hope that the Big 12 goes big... many of us would do well there.

(01-15-2016 10:26 AM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:23 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:08 AM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:06 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 09:41 AM)Insane_Baboon Wrote:  So Houston ticks the academic box at #187.

UCF DOES NOT tick the box at #168

USF DOES tick the box at #156

?????

Houston is #126, ahead of schools like Rice, Oregon, Syracuse, Alabama (I know not a bastion research....jk), and Boston College to name just a few of the names I ran across.

https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

I was referring US News rankings which seem to be the primary source when people talk about academic rankings.

Research is only one aspect of a schools academic profile.

And even still, UCF is 105 on your list so it doesn't make sense that Houston is fine academically but UCF is not.

Don't know either (not the one who said they weren't) but it could be a whole "new money" line of thinking.

Not right but that could be it. Just a possibility.

Yeah I don't know. I wasn't trying to say anything bad about Houston, just didn't understand why he thought you guys were fine academically but UCF is not.

Anyway... Too much thinking about what a random poster said. Lol

My apologies all, it was pre-coffee. I was honestly thinking of endowments when I vomited that onto the keyboard.

Hey Memphis, Cincinnati and Houston fans, please again tell us how many beds you have on campus and how big your **ck* are!

Houston's (as well as SMU and Tulsa) hopes and dreams came crashing down when Boren said he wants a conference network. Houston does not provide TV value for a conference network structured like the BIG and SEC's (which they would be dumb not to pursue). The ACC, PAC, or BIG seem more likely for Houston in the network age.

Just to expand on that from WVU side of things:
"Big 12 expansion:
After Lyons predicted the NCAA vote would provide ”a roadmap as to where we’re the conference is headed,” the Big 12 isn’t compelled to grow in order to stage a title game alongside other leagues.

However, Lyons estimated he discusses expansion “probably once every couple weeks” with WVU president Gordon Gee, a member of the Big 12 expansion committee.

“It’s in the finding stages,” said Lyons, who suggested growth would hinge upon the ability of new members to help establish a network channel."

(01-15-2016 10:33 AM)AirRaid Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:09 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 09:31 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whether it happens or not, dissecting this statement: “We’ll look at the fan base, we’ll look at the size of their programs, we’ll look at the academics of the institutions. We’ll look at them comprehensively as to which is the best fit. And also we’ll consider geography to a certain degree.”

I think Houston and Cincy are the two that on all criteria. Houston's only hitch possibly being the fan base, but in the Big12 I think that is a non issue. UCONN is Houston's competition IMO, with geography being the biggest hurdle. Also, I'm going to assume that if BYU were in the mix, their coach would not have ditched them for UVA... Also do not think BSU is in the mix either as they'll look east and to the AAC...

USF misses on program size and fan base
UCF misses on program size and academics
ECU see UCF
Memphis misses on academics
Temple misses on fan base
Tulane missed on fan base and program size

What the hell does program size mean? Over the last 7 years or so we average more fans. Last year was probably the only year flipped in Houston's favor. Our budget is higher and academics I believe rate higher. In basketball both programs draw flies, but Houston draws ASUN level crowds.

Argument needs to be market size for Houston and coming off a big win. You guys had a great year but calm down. In average years you draw -30k. In most years ucf is pushing close to 40k fans.

Lol okay. You auto add 12k students per football game and say your pushing 40k....okay. And you were only "pushing 40k" during the height of the program and next year when Houston takes its leap, UCF will be easily behind.

We averaged close or over 40k every year since 2007...not exactly all height of the program. This year was bad obviously. I do like Houston. I just had to add a comment to the bigger program that can't be backed up. Moving along...

(01-15-2016 12:18 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:33 AM)AirRaid Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 10:09 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 09:31 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  Whether it happens or not, dissecting this statement: “We’ll look at the fan base, we’ll look at the size of their programs, we’ll look at the academics of the institutions. We’ll look at them comprehensively as to which is the best fit. And also we’ll consider geography to a certain degree.”

I think Houston and Cincy are the two that on all criteria. Houston's only hitch possibly being the fan base, but in the Big12 I think that is a non issue. UCONN is Houston's competition IMO, with geography being the biggest hurdle. Also, I'm going to assume that if BYU were in the mix, their coach would not have ditched them for UVA... Also do not think BSU is in the mix either as they'll look east and to the AAC...

USF misses on program size and fan base
UCF misses on program size and academics
ECU see UCF
Memphis misses on academics
Temple misses on fan base
Tulane missed on fan base and program size

What the hell does program size mean? Over the last 7 years or so we average more fans. Last year was probably the only year flipped in Houston's favor. Our budget is higher and academics I believe rate higher. In basketball both programs draw flies, but Houston draws ASUN level crowds.

Argument needs to be market size for Houston and coming off a big win. You guys had a great year but calm down. In average years you draw -30k. In most years ucf is pushing close to 40k fans.

Lol okay. You auto add 12k students per football game and say your pushing 40k....okay. And you were only "pushing 40k" during the height of the program and next year when Houston takes its leap, UCF will be easily behind.

We averaged close or over 40k every year since 2007...not exactly all height of the program. This year was bad obviously. I do like Houston. I just had to add a comment to the bigger program that can't be backed up. Moving along...

Right, I like UCF as well but since we are engaged in a pissing match....such a massive fan base sold 5k tickets for the fiesta bowl. Lol. UH had 20k in ATL. Our investment dwarfs anything UCF has put into athletics. That matters

(01-15-2016 12:00 PM)Titans3775 Wrote:  Houston's (as well as SMU and Tulsa) hopes and dreams came crashing down when Boren said he wants a conference network. Houston does not provide TV value for a conference network structured like the BIG and SEC's. The ACC, PAC, or BIG seem more likely for Houston in the network age.

Not really, "If" they rolled the LHN into the B12 network maybe but if they don't it clearly doesn't. It's all speculation....

People forget to realize that Texas is the fastest growing population in the country and specifically the Houston metro area. Yes, the B12 has a presence here (with or without the LHN) but that is diminishing due to the SEC.

What does the conference more good? (And this is not a shot at any of the schools or states just pure numbers) To further secure (I'll concede not increase but secure) a Houston market projected to be 14+ million by 2050 or entire states with projected populations of 3.8 million, 7.4 million, and 11.6 million respectively. Florida schools coming in at 1.7 million and 1.8 million.

Its (in theory) again about securing one of (if not the most) fertile TV markets in the future.

(01-15-2016 12:18 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  We averaged close or over 40k every year since 2007...not exactly all height of the program. This year was bad obviously. I do like Houston. I just had to add a comment to the bigger program that can't be backed up. Moving along...

I agree that UCF will be just fine attendance wise but your numbers have to be called into question if these photos (and I watched the whole game) is indicative of what the announced 28,350 looks like.

Don't get me wrong I know every school, UH included, has and does pad numbers but don't act like they (the numbers) are always beyond reasonable doubt.... And yes I know you were terrible this year but this was your homecoming.

Just being honest.