(01-17-2016 02:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 09:47 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  ok i will bite. Even if they changed their name, no one would call them Dayton Catholic or Dayton Mercy. They would still be called Dayton. There is brand recognition in the name Dayton. No need to change

not so sure about that. I mean, folks back 20 years ago(can't believe it's that long ago) I think thought that same thing with Memphis State. Now, don't hear many folks at all calling them Memphis State.

some names just flow better with 2 words. Mostly schools with state in their name like nc state, michigan st penn st etc.seem to fit. I dont think many people when referring to other schools use the entire official name ie indiana, florida, Minnesota,Cal, USC,UCLA,UNC, smu, Georgetown, insert state name here. Do people call it detroit mercy or just detroit?
Other schools are attempting to shorten the names they are referred to. A couple of years ago i believe didnt IUPU=fort wayne nebraska Omaha and a few others decide to go by just city name?

(01-17-2016 12:16 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 10:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 07:50 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Xavier will still block them. Dayton wants to upgrade in conference, and the only thing they might be able to do is offer scholarships in football, and then upgrade all sports to the FBS. Dayton is a big name in basketball, but who would be interested in them?

So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

11,000 seat stadium is not high school.

Have you been there? It's a high school stadium for Dayton City schools. It's 80+ years old.

See..... You have presented DavidSt with facts. So he will just ignore you, because you like everyone else here has proved him wrong.

(01-16-2016 07:11 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I think it's clear that if Gonzaga was located in Pittsburgh and Dayton was located in Detroit, they'd both be in the Big East right now. Also, Saint Louis would be included too if they switched basketball programs with VCU.

If wishes were fishes, the world would be an ocean.

That may not be true. These world might just smell really bad and/or have seriously overcrowded bodies of water.

(01-16-2016 05:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 04:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 07:50 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Xavier will still block them. Dayton wants to upgrade in conference, and the only thing they might be able to do is offer scholarships in football, and then upgrade all sports to the FBS. Dayton is a big name in basketball, but who would be interested in them?

So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

You think that the marginal costs associated with extra students is between $45k and $67k per student? I doubt that, I imagine that the vast majority of associated costs are fixed costs (this is why programs expand to cover budgets) and tuition isn't even $45-67k (it's in the high 30's).

I don't disagree with your end conclusion, but to be fair, you are wildly overstating costs.

Well, UD tuition is $35,800. If they were fishing for an FBS invite, they're going to have to ante up for Full Cost of Attendance. So let's call it $40,000 per football scholarship. Times 80 scholarships, that's $3.2M. Then you have to add womens' sports and scholarships to make things work under Title IX. So $4-5M isn't outlandish to go from non-scholarship FCS to FBS.

All so they can play second fiddle to Ohio State and the Bearcats, and be grouped with Miami-O, Toledo, Akron, Bowling Green, MArshall, etc. Genius.

No. You're assuming per student variable costs are 100% of tuition. That isn't realistic. If that was close to being true, schools wouldn't increase enrollment to cover budget shortfalls. Your real number is probably closer to $5k a student total. $5k * 77 = $385k, which is my guess for the minimum cost increase. $9k * 85 = $765k. That's the very high end number.

In terms of tuition, their cost structure would increase by $500k if they increased enrollment by 77-85 students to field a football team.

(01-17-2016 02:04 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 05:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 04:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 07:50 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Xavier will still block them. Dayton wants to upgrade in conference, and the only thing they might be able to do is offer scholarships in football, and then upgrade all sports to the FBS. Dayton is a big name in basketball, but who would be interested in them?

So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

You think that the marginal costs associated with extra students is between $45k and $67k per student? I doubt that, I imagine that the vast majority of associated costs are fixed costs (this is why programs expand to cover budgets) and tuition isn't even $45-67k (it's in the high 30's).

I don't disagree with your end conclusion, but to be fair, you are wildly overstating costs.

Well, UD tuition is $35,800. If they were fishing for an FBS invite, they're going to have to ante up for Full Cost of Attendance. So let's call it $40,000 per football scholarship. Times 80 scholarships, that's $3.2M. Then you have to add womens' sports and scholarships to make things work under Title IX. So $4-5M isn't outlandish to go from non-scholarship FCS to FBS.

All so they can play second fiddle to Ohio State and the Bearcats, and be grouped with Miami-O, Toledo, Akron, Bowling Green, MArshall, etc. Genius.

No. You're assuming per student variable costs are 100% of tuition. That isn't realistic. If that was close to being true, schools wouldn't increase enrollment to cover budget shortfalls. Your real number is probably closer to $5k a student total. $5k * 77 = $385k, which is my guess for the minimum cost increase. $9k * 85 = $765k. That's the very high end number.

In terms of tuition, their cost structure would increase by $500k if they increased enrollment by 77-85 students to field a football team.

I know from Georgetown's history in the Patriot League, high-priced private schools (like Dayton) sure ACT as if the athletic scholarships they're handing out are real money. If nothing else, they're real money on the balance sheets of the athletic department vs the other budget items.

(01-17-2016 02:25 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 02:04 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 05:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 04:12 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

You think that the marginal costs associated with extra students is between $45k and $67k per student? I doubt that, I imagine that the vast majority of associated costs are fixed costs (this is why programs expand to cover budgets) and tuition isn't even $45-67k (it's in the high 30's).

I don't disagree with your end conclusion, but to be fair, you are wildly overstating costs.

Well, UD tuition is $35,800. If they were fishing for an FBS invite, they're going to have to ante up for Full Cost of Attendance. So let's call it $40,000 per football scholarship. Times 80 scholarships, that's $3.2M. Then you have to add womens' sports and scholarships to make things work under Title IX. So $4-5M isn't outlandish to go from non-scholarship FCS to FBS.

All so they can play second fiddle to Ohio State and the Bearcats, and be grouped with Miami-O, Toledo, Akron, Bowling Green, MArshall, etc. Genius.

No. You're assuming per student variable costs are 100% of tuition. That isn't realistic. If that was close to being true, schools wouldn't increase enrollment to cover budget shortfalls. Your real number is probably closer to $5k a student total. $5k * 77 = $385k, which is my guess for the minimum cost increase. $9k * 85 = $765k. That's the very high end number.

In terms of tuition, their cost structure would increase by $500k if they increased enrollment by 77-85 students to field a football team.

I know from Georgetown's history in the Patriot League, high-priced private schools (like Dayton) sure ACT as if the athletic scholarships they're handing out are real money. If nothing else, they're real money on the balance sheets of the athletic department vs the other budget items.

Maybe. I get that philosophy professors generally protest academic scholarships because they have no concept of cash flows (which I think is what you're referencing), but most schools have an athletic "subsidy" for just the reason that I outlined. I can see the argument go both ways.

(01-16-2016 10:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 07:50 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Xavier will still block them. Dayton wants to upgrade in conference, and the only thing they might be able to do is offer scholarships in football, and then upgrade all sports to the FBS. Dayton is a big name in basketball, but who would be interested in them?

So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

11,000 seat stadium is not high school.

It is in Southwest Ohio. At least at some of the bigger schools (Moeller, Elder, etc).

(01-17-2016 02:25 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I know from Georgetown's history in the Patriot League, high-priced private schools (like Dayton) sure ACT as if the athletic scholarships they're handing out are real money. If nothing else, they're real money on the balance sheets of the athletic department vs the other budget items.

Not sure I follow this line of reasoning. Georgetown's futility in the Patriot League isn't solely about money--nonexistent facilities and the PL's academic index (which impacts GU more than any other school) share some responsibility too.

(01-18-2016 06:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 10:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 07:50 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Xavier will still block them. Dayton wants to upgrade in conference, and the only thing they might be able to do is offer scholarships in football, and then upgrade all sports to the FBS. Dayton is a big name in basketball, but who would be interested in them?

So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

11,000 seat stadium is not high school.

It is in Southwest Ohio. At least at some of the bigger schools (Moeller, Elder, etc).

Well, in Oklahoma, for any high schools that play in that size or larger, usually college stadiums. Our biggest schools had like less than 7,500.

(01-19-2016 12:17 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-18-2016 06:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 10:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 08:10 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(01-15-2016 07:50 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Xavier will still block them. Dayton wants to upgrade in conference, and the only thing they might be able to do is offer scholarships in football, and then upgrade all sports to the FBS. Dayton is a big name in basketball, but who would be interested in them?

So....They are going to spend $4-5 million annually on football scholarships, more than that annually on operational costs, and into the 9 figures upgrading their high school stadium, all so they can get a few extra million extra annually in TV money from the AAC?

Makes sense

11,000 seat stadium is not high school.

It is in Southwest Ohio. At least at some of the bigger schools (Moeller, Elder, etc).

Well, in Oklahoma, for any high schools that play in that size or larger, usually college stadiums. Our biggest schools had like less than 7,500.

That shows how little you know about the state of Ohio and Dayton.

(01-18-2016 11:55 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 02:25 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  I know from Georgetown's history in the Patriot League, high-priced private schools (like Dayton) sure ACT as if the athletic scholarships they're handing out are real money. If nothing else, they're real money on the balance sheets of the athletic department vs the other budget items.

Not sure I follow this line of reasoning. Georgetown's futility in the Patriot League isn't solely about money--nonexistent facilities and the PL's academic index (which impacts GU more than any other school) share some responsibility too.

I remember a lot of stories about Georgetown being highly resistant to adding scholarships, partially because of the cost. Then again, I think it was Fordham pushing to add scholarships, and they're not much cheaper.

(01-16-2016 05:19 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  ... Well, UD tuition is $35,800. If they were fishing for an FBS invite, they're going to have to ante up for Full Cost of Attendance. So let's call it $40,000 per football scholarship. Times 80 scholarships, that's $3.2M. Then you have to add womens' sports and scholarships to make things work under Title IX. So $4-5M isn't outlandish to go from non-scholarship FCS to FBS.

The FCOA top-up is cash money, so while I haven't looked up Dayton's FCOA figure, supposed it's 5,000. If it's expanding total enrollment, it'd be up to ten new faculty salaries at their S/F ratio of around 12, if it's holding enrollment where it is at present, it's displacing up to $35K in tuition per student.

While $5m might be high as an actual cost to the system of the scholarships alone, it would be in the millions, but the likely much larger cost up front is the cost of building a new FB stadium on the back of next to new alumni buy in to their FB program and what is likely to be a booster backlash against a move that seems likely to hurt Flyer BBall.

So, yeah, it's a totally absurd, detached from reality notion.