(01-19-2016 07:10 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  Hound Dogs
Steamers
Showboats
Kings
Egyptians

Cleveland should get a pro/semipro team and name them the steamers.

(01-13-2016 03:02 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Bs the way St. Louis was treated. This is exactly what would be happening to memphis right now if we would have been given a team in '92. The NFL is a publicly funded multi billion $$$$ cartel that pays its CEO over $40 million per year. Pro sports in general and cash strapped cities being forced to build their stadiums is the biggest Ponzi scheme in American history.

+1. I do distinctly remember in late 1993 when it was leaked that the NFL informed the Memphis ownership group that the Liberty Bowl was "a long term liability". I would think by now that only Green Bay has mostly bleacher seats for the non-sky box patrons. And Green Bay is a different animal completely with the rest of the NFL.

My sister lived nearby for many years in Sacramento and noted that the city of Oakland is flat broke and has no money to even think about providing a new stadium. I believe that the city of San Diego's finances are not much better.

I side with the sentiment of books such as "Field of Schemes" where the payoff of all these taxpayers' funding stadiums for big league sports, which are extremely regressive, are not nearly worth it. But hey, it gives "pride" to the city, supposedly.

The area where I reside, Las Vegas, RDU, and Columbus OH (the latter two do have NHL now) do not have a quality of life deficiency by omitting an opportunity to pay $100 per ticket to sit inside a stadium (that your taxes built for an "economically challenged" BILLIONAIRE), suffer through maddening traffic, to then subsidize millionaire players.

(01-20-2016 07:04 PM)MemTGRS Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 03:02 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Bs the way St. Louis was treated. This is exactly what would be happening to memphis right now if we would have been given a team in '92. The NFL is a publicly funded multi billion $$$$ cartel that pays its CEO over $40 million per year. Pro sports in general and cash strapped cities being forced to build their stadiums is the biggest Ponzi scheme in American history.

+1. I do distinctly remember in late 1993 when it was leaked that the NFL informed the Memphis ownership group that the Liberty Bowl was "a long term liability". I would think by now that only Green Bay has mostly bleacher seats for the non-sky box patrons. And Green Bay is a different animal completely with the rest of the NFL.

My sister lived nearby for many years in Sacramento and noted that the city of Oakland is flat broke and has no money to even think about providing a new stadium. I believe that the city of San Diego's finances are not much better.

I side with the sentiment of books such as "Field of Schemes" where the payoff of all these taxpayers' funding stadiums for big league sports, which are extremely regressive, are not nearly worth it. But hey, it gives "pride" to the city, supposedly.

The area where I reside, Las Vegas, RDU, and Columbus OH (the latter two do have NHL now) do not have a quality of life deficiency by omitting an opportunity to pay $100 per ticket to sit inside a stadium (that your taxes built for an "economically challenged" BILLIONAIRE), suffer through maddening traffic, to then subsidize millionaire players.

The Norfolk/Virginia Beach area, Vegas, Raleigh-Durham area, and Columbus would all give their collective right nuts and boobs to get the NFL to come to the area and all would be willing to sell their souls and publicly build a modern football stadium for a relocating NFL team. Vegas probably would have a gaming company to it, and Columbus could get pushback from the state worried about OSU attendance. But the NFL is so powerful and popular that cities and states would spend almost a billion dollars to bring and NFL team. Nashville spent $300 million almost twenty years ago for a building that has maybe 15 or 16 games plus a couple concerts each year. Do you think that would not do it if they could do it again? I have changed my opinion about publicly funding stadiums (financially, it's not worth it), but I realize that a smaller mid-sized market like the ones you mentioned aren't getting a billionaire to come out of his or her pocket to pay for an NFL stadium and then play games in a location that has fewer dollars collectively. Chicago has 10 million people in the surrounding area. Meaning Chicago has more people than Norfolk's metro (1.7 million), Columbus's metro (2.4 million), the triangle (2.1 million), and Vegas (1.9 million) combined. In theory, an NFL owner could build a privately stadium in Chicago and compete with the Bears and they both sell out all of their games. Chicago is bigger than both the San Francisco Bay Area and Washington-Baltimore, combined markets which have two NFL teams. If Mark Davis, owner of the Raiders wants to relocate his team to one of the cities and his price was a new, modern stadium with a modern price tag of $700 million plus, you better believe they'll do it, quality of life be damned.

I have a friend from Nashville, and she tells me qualify of life in Nashville used to be "blah" and slow, and then it changed. Do you know what she says as when? When the NFL came.

A $700 million stadium will cost well over a billion once the bonds are paid off. And each of those cities you mentioned would find a way if the NFL came a'knockin'.

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

When Memphis was denied they were told if they built a stadium, they would have a shot at the Rams, Bengals, or Bucs who at the time were very dissatisfied with their stadiums.

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

The Rams were never blacked out in St Louis in 21 seasons. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to watch the games.

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

26 more years on it and I think its a high 7 figures for each year of the lease left when broken. It's why no one is worried about the team leaving for at least another decade or so.

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

Kroenke has completely poisoned the minds of the owners toward St Louis. Khan is from S Illinois, tried to buy the Rams in 2010, but just said he won't consider moving here. The Raiders don't even have a lease, and won't even consider St Louis as a bargaining tool.

(01-21-2016 01:55 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

The Rams were never blacked out in St Louis in 21 seasons. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to watch the games.

you were in '09 because that's when the Jags were too before they put the tarps on.

(01-21-2016 01:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

Kroenke has completely poisoned the minds of the owners toward St Louis. Khan is from S Illinois, tried to buy the Rams in 2010, but just said he won't consider moving here. The Raiders don't even have a lease, and won't even consider St Louis as a bargaining tool.

WAyne Weaver, who landed the JAX franchise was recruited to lead the St. Louis expansion bid in 1988. He did some research, called it a "baseball city", and then went and assembled the group in JAX. This is not a new thing.

(01-21-2016 01:59 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:55 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

The Rams were never blacked out in St Louis in 21 seasons. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to watch the games.

you were in '09 because that's when the Jags were too before they put the tarps on.

you're right. They did get blacked out in 09

(01-21-2016 02:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 10:23 PM)Rob Wrote:  Somehow Jacksonville still has a team

why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

Kroenke has completely poisoned the minds of the owners toward St Louis. Khan is from S Illinois, tried to buy the Rams in 2010, but just said he won't consider moving here. The Raiders don't even have a lease, and won't even consider St Louis as a bargaining tool.

WAyne Weaver, who landed the JAX franchise was recruited to lead the St. Louis expansion bid in 1988. He did some research, called it a "baseball city", and then went and assembled the group in JAX. This is not a new thing.

That is what they say, but the dome was an almost impossible ticket to get even as late as 2004. The Rams then went on the worst stretch of football in NFL history, and still drew better than they had in Anaheim.

Maybe the fan base wasn't diehard enough to withstand that, but they've probably been managed as badly as any franchise since then.

not disagreeing. I'm just saying that stigma was there in the 80s, not a new one among the owners.

(01-21-2016 02:12 PM)fsquid Wrote:  not disagreeing. I'm just saying that stigma was there in the 80s, not a new one among the owners.

And then Stan K took a great big poop right on the arch with that exit request.

(01-21-2016 02:08 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 12:20 PM)fsquid Wrote:  why not? They haven't been blacked out for the last 4 seasons and the generation that were kids when they landed the team are now buying season tickets.

How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

Kroenke has completely poisoned the minds of the owners toward St Louis. Khan is from S Illinois, tried to buy the Rams in 2010, but just said he won't consider moving here. The Raiders don't even have a lease, and won't even consider St Louis as a bargaining tool.

WAyne Weaver, who landed the JAX franchise was recruited to lead the St. Louis expansion bid in 1988. He did some research, called it a "baseball city", and then went and assembled the group in JAX. This is not a new thing.

That is what they say, but the dome was an almost impossible ticket to get even as late as 2004. The Rams then went on the worst stretch of football in NFL history, and still drew better than they had in Anaheim.

Maybe the fan base wasn't diehard enough to withstand that, but they've probably been managed as badly as any franchise since then.

The problem is St. Louis is the same problem they had in Anaheim. They couldn't make as much money in the stadium as they'd like to. There is the added point that Stan Kroneke's franchise value will possibly triple by moving to LA.

(01-21-2016 02:53 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:08 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  How locked into the lease is the team?

The owner is based in Illinois and if St. Louis is willing to build the riverfront stadium, would he be willing to take the team there? He was going to buy the Rams before he bought the Jags.

Kroenke has completely poisoned the minds of the owners toward St Louis. Khan is from S Illinois, tried to buy the Rams in 2010, but just said he won't consider moving here. The Raiders don't even have a lease, and won't even consider St Louis as a bargaining tool.

WAyne Weaver, who landed the JAX franchise was recruited to lead the St. Louis expansion bid in 1988. He did some research, called it a "baseball city", and then went and assembled the group in JAX. This is not a new thing.

That is what they say, but the dome was an almost impossible ticket to get even as late as 2004. The Rams then went on the worst stretch of football in NFL history, and still drew better than they had in Anaheim.

Maybe the fan base wasn't diehard enough to withstand that, but they've probably been managed as badly as any franchise since then.

The problem is St. Louis is the same problem they had in Anaheim. They couldn't make as much money in the stadium as they'd like to. There is the added point that Stan Kroneke's franchise value will possibly triple by moving to LA.

No doubt about that. But the thing that really irked everyone here was that he said that any owner would be a fool to move here.

But when the Rams won, the franchise was in the top ten in value. The metro area has $2.5 million people, after all.

Rams worth almost $3 billion after move to Los Angeles

(01-21-2016 04:14 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:53 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:08 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 01:59 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  Kroenke has completely poisoned the minds of the owners toward St Louis. Khan is from S Illinois, tried to buy the Rams in 2010, but just said he won't consider moving here. The Raiders don't even have a lease, and won't even consider St Louis as a bargaining tool.

WAyne Weaver, who landed the JAX franchise was recruited to lead the St. Louis expansion bid in 1988. He did some research, called it a "baseball city", and then went and assembled the group in JAX. This is not a new thing.

That is what they say, but the dome was an almost impossible ticket to get even as late as 2004. The Rams then went on the worst stretch of football in NFL history, and still drew better than they had in Anaheim.

Maybe the fan base wasn't diehard enough to withstand that, but they've probably been managed as badly as any franchise since then.

The problem is St. Louis is the same problem they had in Anaheim. They couldn't make as much money in the stadium as they'd like to. There is the added point that Stan Kroneke's franchise value will possibly triple by moving to LA.

No doubt about that. But the thing that really irked everyone here was that he said that any owner would be a fool to move here.

But when the Rams won, the franchise was in the top ten in value. The metro area has $2.5 million people, after all.

There are NFL fifteen markets larger than STL (and three have two teams). In 2004, the Vikings, 49ers, Raiders, Jets, and Giants were in old stadiums and had not started building something new. Other than the Vikings and the Raiders, I can't see how the Rams were worth more than any of those other franchises.

(01-21-2016 05:14 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 04:14 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:53 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:08 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 02:02 PM)fsquid Wrote:  WAyne Weaver, who landed the JAX franchise was recruited to lead the St. Louis expansion bid in 1988. He did some research, called it a "baseball city", and then went and assembled the group in JAX. This is not a new thing.

That is what they say, but the dome was an almost impossible ticket to get even as late as 2004. The Rams then went on the worst stretch of football in NFL history, and still drew better than they had in Anaheim.

Maybe the fan base wasn't diehard enough to withstand that, but they've probably been managed as badly as any franchise since then.

The problem is St. Louis is the same problem they had in Anaheim. They couldn't make as much money in the stadium as they'd like to. There is the added point that Stan Kroneke's franchise value will possibly triple by moving to LA.

No doubt about that. But the thing that really irked everyone here was that he said that any owner would be a fool to move here.

But when the Rams won, the franchise was in the top ten in value. The metro area has $2.5 million people, after all.

There are NFL fifteen markets larger than STL (and three have two teams). In 2004, the Vikings, 49ers, Raiders, Jets, and Giants were in old stadiums and had not started building something new. Other than the Vikings and the Raiders, I can't see how the Rams were worth more than any of those other franchises.

I think they peaked in 2001 or 2002, but they had already moved up to 13th by 2000. I think Kroenke had already doubled his money (he was minority owner then.) They were worth more than the Steelers and Giants:

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/I...IONS.aspx?