(01-11-2016 02:48 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If you were going to play cutthroat - and I'm not sure if this even nets you any real long-term benefit - certain schools in the MWC and AAC would work together to form something like this:

*Hypothetical conference*

Houston
Cincy
UConn
USF
Boise St
CSU
Air Force
Navy
SDSU
*Wildcard team* - AAC/MWC team taken on "potential"

That would be the #6 overall conference. The schools left in the wake would then scrape off any remaining promise among the smaller G5 conferences to form a #7 overall conference.

That would be 10. I think a nationally spread-out conference would function best as a 16+ school league. I'd say the 9 you listed plus BYU, Temple, UCF, Memphis, New Mexico, UNLV, and maybe Tulane? You get decent markets, solid basketball, solid football, and some good academics.

(01-11-2016 02:10 PM)vodka Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:28 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:30 AM)vodka Wrote:  Half of the schools in the MWC are making peanuts and some are making zero.

No, that's not accurate. The bonus for football TV appearances is based on number of national TV games for each school, but the rest of the MWC's conference distribution is equal among the full members.

For example, in 2014-15, Boise State got a conference payout of $5.3 million (plus more for playing in the Fiesta Bowl) and $2.1 million of that was their football TV bonus for the year. The "base payout" in 2014-15 for a MWC team that got no TV bonus would be $5.3 -2.1 million, or $3.2 million. (The same article reported Fresno got $4.9 million for that school year and Nevada and Utah State more than $4 million each.)

Again HALF of the schools are making peanuts. If there's no even revenues sharing someone is getting screwed. While teams like and specially Boise St are making millions guess how much Colorado ST, New Mexico and San Jose ST are making? 80k each! But hold up Hawaii isn't even getting nothing.
yeah that TV bonuses system is working wonders.

CSU, Boise State on opposite ends of Mountain West TV money

Every MWC full member (Hawai'i is football-only and has its own local TV deal) gets at least $3.2 million/year from the conference.

How much does each AAC team get from the AAC per year? And I haven't seen any evidence that the AAC equally divides its TV revenue, either. If you contend that they do, then you need to provide a link to an article that proves it.

Interesting conference.

How about this one:

Army [FB only], Navy [FB only], UConn [or UMass if UConn taken by Big 12], Buffalo, Temple, Air Force, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Georgetown [no football], BYU [maybe football], and Notre Dame [no football -- they go independent again] That will include some of the best academic colleges in USA, as well as strong presence in Washington to New England corridor and the South. It could survive into the decades. And if UVA, Duke, Wake Forest ever want to give up being in the ACC it gives them a less football focused conference than the Big 10 or even the ACC.

(01-11-2016 03:16 PM)connecticutguy Wrote:  Interesting conference.

How about this one:

Army [FB only], Navy [FB only], UConn [or UMass if UConn taken by Big 12], Buffalo, Temple, Air Force, Rice, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, Georgetown [no football], BYU [maybe football], and Notre Dame [no football -- they go independent again] That will include some of the best academic colleges in USA, as well as strong presence in Washington to New England corridor and the South. It could survive into the decades. And if UVA, Duke, Wake Forest ever want to give up being in the ACC it gives them a less football focused conference than the Big 10 or even the ACC.

Notre Dame??? BYU??? Georgetown??? These are pipe dream picks.

Honestly, I see no realistic choice in football that currently would add value outside of the MW. I do think there might be some things that could be done on the basketball side with Wichita--and perhaps a few A-10 schools. I'd approach Colorado St and Air Force as a package deal. Id add Wichita (hell, I'd do that today). I'd also talk to a couple of A-10 teams and see if an interesting pair could be coaxed into moving to the AAC. Those are the only moves that make much sense if were to lose 2 schools in the near future.

As a developing conference with hopes of being considered a higher level than the rest of the G5, we cannot afford to add bad football schools with low attendance. The goal is to build our average attendance to 40K. If we can get there, that really would put the AAC alone into a kind of 'middle' tier between the P5 and G4. Adding Buffalos and UMass type schoosl that regularly post crowds under 15K (sometimes even under 10K) just sets the conference back a decade.

(01-11-2016 11:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 10:02 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:30 AM)vodka Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 08:50 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-09-2016 10:41 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I dont think army will ever join the AAC. Doing so would force the army navy game to move from the week after championship week to most likely rivalry weekend the week before the championship game. The value in the army navy game is two prestigious schools having an exclusive timeslot. Forcing that game to compete against a plethora of in state rivalry games with likely national title implications impacts its worth the prestigious exclusivity they currently have.

Good point...with Army in the AAC they can't play after the CCG weekend since that would be a conference game.

Air Force would be the only MW school that would consider going to the AAC to be in the same division as Navy, they stated it would be intriguing to be in the same conference, but didn't make a move. Maybe this time is different but they are still pretty loyal to the front range schools.
After the last discussion in the MW meetings, it seems the MW is pretty content to stay at 12.

Half of the schools in the MWC are making peanuts and some are making zero. But hey let's keep pretending they're happy with their situation.

??. We are all making peanuts at the G5 level. No need to make lateral moves. The only move worthwhile is a move to a P5 conference. The only move within the G5 conferences that would not be lateral is a move from the Sunbelt, CUSA or MAC to the AAC or MW.

TCU made a "lateral" move to the MW that worked out quite well for them. One could argue BYU made a lateral move to independence. Much like Houston, the geography of Colorado St and AF allow then to swing to a western conference or to a central time zone conference. Moving from an unequal revenue distribution and 2 tiered TV contract to a equal revenue distribution system where everyone receives similar exposure under a single media contract may be attractive to some MW members at this point.

The biggest problem with the first set of western invites sent to MW teams in 2011-2013 was their "football only" nature. That created significant issues for schools Olympic sports and minimized the percentage of conference income these schools could expect. They were a bad deal for MW schools.

On the other hand, offering "all sports" invitations to schools that could cleanly fit into reasonable AAC western division might be far more attractive. For instance, Colorado St and Air Force. Or, perhaps going bigger---Air Force, Colorado St. Boise, and SDSU. That didn't happen before and that's at least one major reason the Big East/AAC western expansion collapsed. Hey, it may not work this time either, but I wouldn't immediately assume failure simply because the last poorly conceived effort at western expansion failed.

In addition to money and geography, the other important driver to consider is stability. The MWC is not at any meaningful risk of being cherry-picked by a P5 conference, whereas the AAC is. Unless and until that changes it's unlikely any MWC member will consider defecting to the AAC.

(01-11-2016 06:17 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 10:02 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:30 AM)vodka Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 08:50 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Good point...with Army in the AAC they can't play after the CCG weekend since that would be a conference game.

Air Force would be the only MW school that would consider going to the AAC to be in the same division as Navy, they stated it would be intriguing to be in the same conference, but didn't make a move. Maybe this time is different but they are still pretty loyal to the front range schools.
After the last discussion in the MW meetings, it seems the MW is pretty content to stay at 12.

Half of the schools in the MWC are making peanuts and some are making zero. But hey let's keep pretending they're happy with their situation.

??. We are all making peanuts at the G5 level. No need to make lateral moves. The only move worthwhile is a move to a P5 conference. The only move within the G5 conferences that would not be lateral is a move from the Sunbelt, CUSA or MAC to the AAC or MW.

TCU made a "lateral" move to the MW that worked out quite well for them. One could argue BYU made a lateral move to independence. Much like Houston, the geography of Colorado St and AF allow then to swing to a western conference or to a central time zone conference. Moving from an unequal revenue distribution and 2 tiered TV contract to a equal revenue distribution system where everyone receives similar exposure under a single media contract may be attractive to some MW members at this point.

The biggest problem with the first set of western invites sent to MW teams in 2011-2013 was their "football only" nature. That created significant issues for schools Olympic sports and minimized the percentage of conference income these schools could expect. They were a bad deal for MW schools.

On the other hand, offering "all sports" invitations to schools that could cleanly fit into reasonable AAC western division might be far more attractive. For instance, Colorado St and Air Force. Or, perhaps going bigger---Air Force, Colorado St. Boise, and SDSU. That didn't happen before and that's at least one major reason the Big East/AAC western expansion collapsed. Hey, it may not work this time either, but I wouldn't immediately assume failure simply because the last poorly conceived effort at western expansion failed.

In addition to money and geography, the other important driver to consider is stability. The MWC is not at any meaningful risk of being cherry-picked by a P5 conference, whereas the AAC is. Unless and until that changes it's unlikely any MWC member will consider defecting to the AAC.

The MW conference was conceived in instability (Airport meeting). That worked out ok. That said, unequal revenue sharing is a destabilizing influence on its own.

I agree, the MW is less likely to be raided. However, raids on the AAC could be seen as a positive. They are actually a opportunity to rebalance the conference to a more 60-40 east/west balance should that be the desire. If the AAC became a national "best of the rest", then as the conference is raided, the replacements can always be the next best school available---regardless of location. The conference would effectively be quite stable in terms of its existence (though its membership may be more transitory).

(01-11-2016 06:17 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 11:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 10:02 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 09:30 AM)vodka Wrote:  

(01-11-2016 08:50 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Good point...with Army in the AAC they can't play after the CCG weekend since that would be a conference game.

Air Force would be the only MW school that would consider going to the AAC to be in the same division as Navy, they stated it would be intriguing to be in the same conference, but didn't make a move. Maybe this time is different but they are still pretty loyal to the front range schools.
After the last discussion in the MW meetings, it seems the MW is pretty content to stay at 12.

Half of the schools in the MWC are making peanuts and some are making zero. But hey let's keep pretending they're happy with their situation.

??. We are all making peanuts at the G5 level. No need to make lateral moves. The only move worthwhile is a move to a P5 conference. The only move within the G5 conferences that would not be lateral is a move from the Sunbelt, CUSA or MAC to the AAC or MW.

TCU made a "lateral" move to the MW that worked out quite well for them. One could argue BYU made a lateral move to independence. Much like Houston, the geography of Colorado St and AF allow then to swing to a western conference or to a central time zone conference. Moving from an unequal revenue distribution and 2 tiered TV contract to a equal revenue distribution system where everyone receives similar exposure under a single media contract may be attractive to some MW members at this point.

The biggest problem with the first set of western invites sent to MW teams in 2011-2013 was their "football only" nature. That created significant issues for schools Olympic sports and minimized the percentage of conference income these schools could expect. They were a bad deal for MW schools.

On the other hand, offering "all sports" invitations to schools that could cleanly fit into reasonable AAC western division might be far more attractive. For instance, Colorado St and Air Force. Or, perhaps going bigger---Air Force, Colorado St. Boise, and SDSU. That didn't happen before and that's at least one major reason the Big East/AAC western expansion collapsed. Hey, it may not work this time either, but I wouldn't immediately assume failure simply because the last poorly conceived effort at western expansion failed.

In addition to money and geography, the other important driver to consider is stability. The MWC is not at any meaningful risk of being cherry-picked by a P5 conference, whereas the AAC is. Unless and until that changes it's unlikely any MWC member will consider defecting to the AAC.

The MWC is garbage. Stability has nothing to do with it. Anyone that left could always go back...

Because they'll "leave the lights on." lmao

The AAC could be picked apart by 4 conferences, but MWC could be picked apart by 2.

MWC eastern range schools like Air Force, Colorado State and New Mexico could still be picked by the Big 12 since they are in the Big 12's footprints.

Big 12 could make an agreement with the ACC to take West Virginia off their hands, and have them to take UConn as well. Than, the Big 12 could take schools like Memphis, Colorado State, Air Force, BYU, Boise State, and San Diego State.

But Texas seems to have eyes for east coast schools like Florida schools to join the Big 12. Texas wants Florida State Georgia Tech and Clemson is like people in Hell wants ice water. Those schools are off the table. I think it was Texas that did not want Louisville which is why the Big 12 dragged their feet. It is the old guards in these P5 conferences want to raid the other P5 conferences to take school. The problem is the schools are mainly becoming have beens and not the future. The future lies in the AAC, MWC, and some other schools in the other three conferences and FCS level as the new guards.

(01-11-2016 02:48 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  If you were going to play cutthroat - and I'm not sure if this even nets you any real long-term benefit - certain schools in the MWC and AAC would work together to form something like this:

*Hypothetical conference*

Houston
Cincy
UConn
USF
Boise St
CSU
Air Force
Navy
SDSU
*Wildcard team* - AAC/MWC team taken on "potential"

That would be the #6 overall conference. The schools left in the wake would then scrape off any remaining promise among the smaller G5 conferences to form a #7 overall conference.

There really isn't any need to do that. The top few schools from the AAC and MWC should be playing home and homes ooc. Builds up a better, more balanced overall schedule... nearly cuts off other conferences from getting a SOS to match ... more exciting games for fans. Play other sports more regionally within the current setup. This also allows you to be fluid for when UCF gets their stuff back together or someone falls off the map that is currently good.

Not that it means anything but reading Landthieves, which has been a well of frustration for OU fans who want out of BXII, many are coming around to the idea of adding UC and UConn to the BXII, in the hopes of getting a network set up that would make those potential adds work.

Excluding Texas from that network?

(02-10-2016 07:05 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Not that it means anything but reading Landthieves, which has been a well of frustration for OU fans who want out of BXII, many are coming around to the idea of adding UC and UConn to the BXII, in the hopes of getting a network set up that would make those potential adds work.

That certainly wouldn't do much for the AAC's development.

Are there any two schools that the AAC can lose to the XII and not have it drastically affect the conference's strength??

If I was the American, and Cincinnati and UConn left, I'd go after Air Force, New Mexico, NIU, and Colorado State....if you get those 4, you separate from the rest of the G5 pack

American East
Temple
East Carolina
NIU
UCF
South Florida
Tulane
Memphis

American West
Air Force
Navy
Houston
SMU
Colorado State
New Mexico
Tulsa

(02-11-2016 11:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Are there any two schools that the AAC can lose to the XII and not have it drastically affect the conference's strength??

Memphis and SMU

Vodka, so I suppose you also don't want and/or don't think it realistic to trying bringing Army in as a football-only?

What's the likelihood of the XII going after Memphis and SMU, of any two AAC?? Probably close to zero.

(02-11-2016 11:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Are there any two schools that the AAC can lose to the XII and not have it drastically affect the conference's strength??

Any two of Tulsa/Tulane/SMU/ECU, realistically. SMU is good at basketball at the moment, but they're about to lose their three best players, and I can't imagine Larry Brown is going to stick around for much longer. If you lost those four schools, and added, for example, ODU, WKU, La Tech, and Marshall, the actual athletic strength of the conference would probably increase in both sports.

Lose Uconn and Cincy add Witchia State, VCU and UAB.

AAC

W: Witchia State, Tulsa, SMU, Houston, Tulane, Memphis
E: Temple, ECU, USF, UCF, UAB, VCU/Navy

if the shockers don't add football bring in Army or Umass for football only.

(02-11-2016 11:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Are there any two schools that the AAC can lose to the XII and not have it drastically affect the conference's strength??

Probably not.

Army prefers independence. There is no point to submitting to the peer pressure of conferences when we have a nice TV contract and can fill our schedules.