One disclaimer:
IF it came with a signed contract for a high-paying* cable TV network, then I'd add Cincinnati and Houston tomorrow, and I'd be willing to toss in a partial deal with Texas if necessary.

* i.e. comparable to what the SEC Network pays the SEC.

(02-03-2016 03:59 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Texas A&M may not have a flag IN Houston, but I'm pretty sure you can see it from there.

There are definitely a lot of Aggie and LSU Tiger alums in Houston....

but as far as college sports, it's Houston and Rice. Of course, Houston is primarily a pro sports town, but UH is gaining more steam lately...

They just pulled in a nice recruiting class too

I just think people who don't know the area don't realize there's not a Big XII or SEC flag here...

(02-03-2016 04:40 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 01:56 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 10:57 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 10:26 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  This is what I would do with the ACC....add Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulane, and break out into these divisions:

ACC East
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College

ACC South
Florida State
Miami
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Clemson
Houston
Rice
Tulane
SMU

I would triple down in Texas....Texas is where it's at. You also have geographic regions with this set up. Ditch the Atlantic/Coastal stuff

you serious, Clark?

yes, absolutely serious

Assuming Texas, Notre Dame, or Oklahoma don't come aboard, that's your best option. Pretty pointless in adding everyone without a network though....

If I was the ACC though, I'd definitely be talking to Houston. They have enormous potential. Bigger city than any of the dinky ACC cities as well, and the secret is....there ain't no SEC or Big XII flag here. That's BS

All this time, I thought for sure that Miami, Atlanta and BC were not dinky cities.

yep, Houston is bigger than the ACC's three biggest cities....after those 3, you have a substantial drop off in market size

(02-03-2016 04:47 PM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 01:56 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 10:57 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 10:26 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  This is what I would do with the ACC....add Houston, Rice, SMU, Tulane, and break out into these divisions:

ACC East
North Carolina
Duke
NC State
Wake Forest
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Pitt
Syracuse
Boston College

ACC South
Florida State
Miami
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Clemson
Houston
Rice
Tulane
SMU

I would triple down in Texas....Texas is where it's at. You also have geographic regions with this set up. Ditch the Atlantic/Coastal stuff

you serious, Clark?

yes, absolutely serious

Assuming Texas, Notre Dame, or Oklahoma don't come aboard, that's your best option. Pretty pointless in adding everyone without a network though....

If I was the ACC though, I'd definitely be talking to Houston. They have enormous potential. Bigger city than any of the dinky ACC cities as well, and the secret is....there ain't no SEC or Big XII flag here. That's BS

Nobody cares about Rice sports, including Rice students and alumni. Therefore, it stands to reason that nobody will watch them on TV (i.e. dismal ratings, no advertisers chomping at the bit to advertise during those broadcasts). Ditto for Tulane. Neither of their athletic departments are capable of supporting P5 football or basketball. An argument could be made for Houston since they are a very large school with a large alumni base. SMU is private with a small enrollment and alumni base. They would ONLY make sense if we know for a fact that the Big12 is stable and we have no chance of landing Texas. if it were a big cha-ching for the mythical ACCN, you could make an argument for Houston/SMU. But what are the odds of that? Yeah, pretty much zero.

Rice has great academics, great baseball, and a decent sized stadium in a large metro area with great recruiting. OF COURSE they would improve if they had P5 money and schools like FSU, Clemson, and Miami coming to play them every year.....

Rice wouldn't be any worse than Wake Forest, Vandy, Boston College, Indiana, Washington State, etc.

I wouldn't expect them to BECOME a football juggernaut, but that's not why you add Rice...you add them for the market and recruiting

Go look at the MAPS thread, and find that map that shows where all the NFL talent was born

(02-03-2016 05:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  At this point, I'll try to inject sanity back into the thread. Urban locations don't equate to more money. Fan interest equates to more money. Unless the school has a ton of fans or makes for interesting games, it won't lead to a bigger payout.

is that so?

-Signed: Maryland and Rutgers

(02-03-2016 05:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  None of the G5 fulfill those requirements. They will not increase the conference's tv payout. I personally like Rice and Tulane and have a soft spot for Houston and SMU, but none of them will add to our payout. They will only dilute it.

Ya it would be a bump in money at first, but it would pay off down the line, like maybe when the ACC network actually happens lol

I'm not near as hot on Rice and Tulane as I am on Houston. Houston would be an excellent addition to the ACC. Tulane only gets in by proxy in my format....you could easily pick up Cincinnati instead.

Also, I liked the trio of UH-SMU-Rice because it creates a heavier footprint for the ACC in combating Texas and A&M.

Overall, I think Texas is where it's at in ALL expansion plans for every conference except the SEC. The PAC 12? the B1G? They all want Texas

Houston is the 4th largest US city (New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston).

The largest US cities:

Houston is the biggest chunk of Texas recruiting. Compare Los Angeles.

Just saying. Not saying the other thing. Yet.

(02-04-2016 09:48 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Rice wouldn't be any worse than Wake Forest, Vandy, Boston College, Indiana, Washington State, etc.

While that IS probably true, I think I speak for the majority when I say I don't want any more teams like Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Indiana or Washington State. The ACC needs teams as good as or better than Louisville.

Who is that? Potentially Cincinnati and Houston. Certainly TCU, Baylor, WVU, etc. See where I'm going with this...?

I want CHICKEN WINGS and NACHOS with my football... NOT RICE!

(02-04-2016 10:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 09:48 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Rice wouldn't be any worse than Wake Forest, Vandy, Boston College, Indiana, Washington State, etc.

While that IS probably true, I think I speak for the majority when I say I don't want any more teams like Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Boston College, Indiana or Washington State. The ACC needs teams as good as or better than Louisville.

Who is that? Potentially Cincinnati and Houston. Certainly TCU, Baylor, WVU, etc. See where I'm going with this...?

I want CHICKEN WINGS and NACHOS with my football... NOT RICE!

well, I won't push the Rice issue...honestly, I think the B1G should add them (along with Kansas)

I will agree on Houston as #15 though....they just came in #30 in recruiting....pretty damn good for a G5 school....

I know the ACC would rather have ND or Texas, but how long do you wait for those schools? The B1G waited forever on ND, sitting at 11 teams

I'm all for the ACC expanding west under the right circumstances, Texas and/or a network. I think Rice is a nonstarter under any circumstance & I question if TCU, Baylor & Houston would be able to maintain a level of success in an eastern conference without a Texas or Oklahoma. If they brought a network however I would say bring them in.

If this means an ACCN

West- Houston, TCU, Baylor, Cincinnati, Louisville, Miami

North- Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT, NC State, WF

South- FSU, Clemson, GT, NC, Duke, Virginia

(02-04-2016 10:01 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(02-03-2016 05:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  At this point, I'll try to inject sanity back into the thread. Urban locations don't equate to more money. Fan interest equates to more money. Unless the school has a ton of fans or makes for interesting games, it won't lead to a bigger payout.

is that so?

-Signed: Maryland and Rutgers

(02-03-2016 05:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  None of the G5 fulfill those requirements. They will not increase the conference's tv payout. I personally like Rice and Tulane and have a soft spot for Houston and SMU, but none of them will add to our payout. They will only dilute it.

Ya it would be a bump in money at first, but it would pay off down the line, like maybe when the ACC network actually happens lol

I'm not near as hot on Rice and Tulane as I am on Houston. Houston would be an excellent addition to the ACC. Tulane only gets in by proxy in my format....you could easily pick up Cincinnati instead.

Also, I liked the trio of UH-SMU-Rice because it creates a heavier footprint for the ACC in combating Texas and A&M.

Overall, I think Texas is where it's at in ALL expansion plans for every conference except the SEC. The PAC 12? the B1G? They all want Texas

It is so.
-Signed Penn State

And how do you see any G5 school bringing in more money than they cost in the long run? I don't see it.

(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  You forgot the advocates for status quo :)

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Viriginia
Virginia Tech

Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

the only thing that would make this better is Houston in the coastal and SMU or Cincy in the Atlantic.

(02-04-2016 07:06 PM)TopCoog2016 Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  You forgot the advocates for status quo :)

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Viriginia
Virginia Tech

Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

the only thing that would make this better is Houston in the coastal and SMU or Cincy in the Atlantic.

Well, this might be an exception to ACC rule that the better recruiting area should always be placed in the Coastal division... since Houston is so far away, UNC the ACC might put Cincinnati in the Coastal.

(02-04-2016 08:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-04-2016 07:06 PM)TopCoog2016 Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  You forgot the advocates for status quo :)

ATLANTIC

Boston College
Clemson
Florida State
Louisville
NC State
Syracuse
Wake Forest

COASTAL

Duke
Georgia Tech
Miami
North Carolina
Pitt
Viriginia
Virginia Tech

Snag #1
If the first two seasons of it have been any indication, Louisville/Virginia is one of the best up-and-coming nasty football rivalries in P5. Why would anyone want to give that up...?

Snag #2
You'd have to convince one (if not all three) of North Carolina, Duke and (maybe) Virginia to give up annual games with Georgia Tech. Good luck.

the only thing that would make this better is Houston in the coastal and SMU or Cincy in the Atlantic.

Well, this might be an exception to ACC rule that the better recruiting area should always be placed in the Coastal division... since Houston is so far away, UNC the ACC might put Cincinnati in the Coastal.

We call dibs on Cincinnati as our crossover.

ACC EAST
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech
Viriginia
Virginia Tech
Syracuse
Boston College
UConn/Cincinnati/Temple

ACC SOUTH
NC State
Wake Forest
Clemson
Louisville
Pitt
Houston
Florida State
Miami

It's amazing how we keep having the same discussions on this board, but what else are we supposed to do?!?

The reality is that ACC expansion will not happen unless it involves one or more of Notre Dame, Texas and Penn State. If we land any of those as 15th, then the 16th could be a worthless tag along for all we care. The good news is that Texas and Notre Dame will not end up in the SEC or B1G. That would be bad for us just because the financial gap would likely get wider.

Scenario 1: ND wants to be 15th. call the other two. if neither accept, take Cincinnati and be done with it.

Scenario 2: Texas wants to be 15th. call ND. if they don't accept, we take a tag along Texas school. I would prefer Houston since they are a Carnegie 1, public university with a large enrollment and alumni base (i.e. more fans than private schools).

Scenario 3: PSU wants to be 15th. call ND. if they don't accept, take Cincinnati.

Notice that I don't even mention UConn. Their football program is dreadful, the recruiting ground is terrible, we already have a foothold in NYC, and we don't need any help in basketball. Cincinnati is good in football and basketball, and they are a Carnegie 1 university. I just cannot make a good argument to take UConn over Cincinnati other than the fact that UConn is a state flagship school.

(02-05-2016 10:17 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  It's amazing how we keep having the same discussions on this board, but what else are we supposed to do?!?

The reality is that ACC expansion will not happen unless it involves one or more of Notre Dame, Texas and Penn State. If we land any of those as 15th, then the 16th could be a worthless tag along for all we care. The good news is that Texas and Notre Dame will not end up in the SEC or B1G. That would be bad for us just because the financial gap would likely get wider.

Scenario 1: ND wants to be 15th. call the other two. if neither accept, take Cincinnati and be done with it.

Scenario 2: Texas wants to be 15th. call ND. if they don't accept, we take a tag along Texas school. I would prefer Houston since they are a Carnegie 1, public university with a large enrollment and alumni base (i.e. more fans than private schools).

Scenario 3: PSU wants to be 15th. call ND. if they don't accept, take Cincinnati.

Notice that I don't even mention UConn. Their football program is dreadful, the recruiting ground is terrible, we already have a foothold in NYC, and we don't need any help in basketball. Cincinnati is good in football and basketball, and they are a Carnegie 1 university. I just cannot make a good argument to take UConn over Cincinnati other than the fact that UConn is a state flagship school.

Penn State will never EVER be in the ACC....it's pure fantasyland with that pick

I think the ONLY way you get Notre Dame is if Texas were to join the ACC

It's not improbable that the ACC could wind up with ND and Texas, but highly unlikely

IMO, Houston has taken the right steps and could have a serious presence in a P5 conference. They would be a good #15. I'd like to see the divisions broken a bit more geographically as well....As an FSU fan, I've NEVER been excited about the Atlantic Division. Clemson is growing into THE game for FSU, and Louisville replacing Maryland was a good step. Syracuse is decent.....

Let's get a better divisional alignment

(02-05-2016 10:37 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(02-05-2016 10:17 AM)ren.hoek Wrote:  It's amazing how we keep having the same discussions on this board, but what else are we supposed to do?!?

The reality is that ACC expansion will not happen unless it involves one or more of Notre Dame, Texas and Penn State. If we land any of those as 15th, then the 16th could be a worthless tag along for all we care. The good news is that Texas and Notre Dame will not end up in the SEC or B1G. That would be bad for us just because the financial gap would likely get wider.

Scenario 1: ND wants to be 15th. call the other two. if neither accept, take Cincinnati and be done with it.

Scenario 2: Texas wants to be 15th. call ND. if they don't accept, we take a tag along Texas school. I would prefer Houston since they are a Carnegie 1, public university with a large enrollment and alumni base (i.e. more fans than private schools).

Scenario 3: PSU wants to be 15th. call ND. if they don't accept, take Cincinnati.

Notice that I don't even mention UConn. Their football program is dreadful, the recruiting ground is terrible, we already have a foothold in NYC, and we don't need any help in basketball. Cincinnati is good in football and basketball, and they are a Carnegie 1 university. I just cannot make a good argument to take UConn over Cincinnati other than the fact that UConn is a state flagship school.

Penn State will never EVER be in the ACC....it's pure fantasyland with that pick

I think the ONLY way you get Notre Dame is if Texas were to join the ACC

It's not improbable that the ACC could wind up with ND and Texas, but highly unlikely

IMO, Houston has taken the right steps and could have a serious presence in a P5 conference. They would be a good #15. I'd like to see the divisions broken a bit more geographically as well....As an FSU fan, I've NEVER been excited about the Atlantic Division. Clemson is growing into THE game for FSU, and Louisville replacing Maryland was a good step. Syracuse is decent.....

Let's get a better divisional alignment

agree on PSU. only mentioned them because they've been pursued in the past. But Houston won't be 15th. I'd say that is as likely as PSU as 15th.