This isn't meant to be bash/flame or anything else. Just an honest question. His teams have always choked at the end of games and down the stretch in seasons. This is going back to his Murray State days (remember 2006 vs UC with AK). There must be a reason his teams play tight and the other team looks so comfortbale.

(01-07-2016 09:10 PM)jarr Wrote:  This isn't meant to be bash/flame or anything else. Just an honest question. His teams have always choked at the end of games and down the stretch in seasons. This is going back to his Murray State days (remember 2006 vs UC with AK). There must be a reason his teams play tight and the other team looks so comfortbale.

It has to start with the type of players he has been recruiting.

Dense skulls.

Up 7 with under 3 with the ball out of a timeout and Cobb clanks an idiotic 3 with 20 on the shot lock that leads to a breakaway and started the slow descent into madness. Why the hell are we taking 3s in that situation? Seriously. Bad coaching or knuckleheads.

(01-07-2016 10:12 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Dense skulls.

Up 7 with under 3 with the ball out of a timeout and Cobb clanks an idiotic 3 with 20 on the shot lock that leads to a breakaway and started the slow descent into madness. Why the hell are we taking 3s in that situation? Seriously. Bad coaching and knuckleheads.

I fixed it for you

(01-07-2016 10:17 PM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:12 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Dense skulls.

Up 7 with under 3 with the ball out of a timeout and Cobb clanks an idiotic 3 with 20 on the shot lock that leads to a breakaway and started the slow descent into madness. Why the hell are we taking 3s in that situation? Seriously. Bad coaching and knuckleheads.

I fixed it for you

Because he recruits street ballers not players.

(01-08-2016 01:01 AM)doss2 Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:17 PM)jarr Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:12 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Dense skulls.

Up 7 with under 3 with the ball out of a timeout and Cobb clanks an idiotic 3 with 20 on the shot lock that leads to a breakaway and started the slow descent into madness. Why the hell are we taking 3s in that situation? Seriously. Bad coaching and knuckleheads.

I fixed it for you

Because he recruits street ballers not players.

Because he recruits ballers with basketball player handicaps, then tries to "teach" them how to overcome their handicaps.

(01-07-2016 10:12 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Dense skulls.

Up 7 with under 3 with the ball out of a timeout and Cobb clanks an idiotic 3 with 20 on the shot lock that leads to a breakaway and started the slow descent into madness. Why the hell are we taking 3s in that situation? Seriously. Bad coaching or knuckleheads.

Makes you wonder what in the world they talk about in the timeout huddle.

And by the way Ellis is turning out to be such a great add. The way he's regressed, you'd think Gran and Tuberville were coaching him.

Maybe next year will be our year. Cumberland is a true big time player. Washington will be huge upgrade over Ellis. Maybe Mick will trust Jenifer to run the offense at least some. Evans is a baller. Clark...he's an enigma...some days he looks like a player others he looks like one of micks infamous recruiting mistakes.

Then again heading into the spring with open scholarships....rarely a good thing for UC.

It has to be the type of player he recruits. Not sure what else it could be. They all have low basketball IQ's and also lack the ability/talent to make shots when it matters most. It's been a constant theme with this year's team. Same thing happened in the Butler and Iowa State losses. They had an 8-10 point lead on Butler most of the 2nd half until the last few minutes and a 4 point lead on Iowa State with just over a minute to go. They also dont have a true difference maker type of player, which they've lacked almost every season he's been at UC.

I don't really agree prior to this season. You can find examples of both. Purdue?

SK was a killer in the final 2 minutes of games his whole career. The Georgetown games with Yancy closing them out late.

This season, everything is different. Some of it's small sample size. Personally, I think he already regrets switching gears to focusing on improving the offense this season. Any gains they've made there, they've easily given back on defense/rebounding. It's easy to point to the lack of a killer on O, but really its our D that has vanished late in these games.

(01-08-2016 06:32 AM)50Cent Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:12 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Dense skulls.

Up 7 with under 3 with the ball out of a timeout and Cobb clanks an idiotic 3 with 20 on the shot lock that leads to a breakaway and started the slow descent into madness. Why the hell are we taking 3s in that situation? Seriously. Bad coaching or knuckleheads.

Makes you wonder what in the world they talk about in the timeout huddle.

And by the way Ellis is turning out to be such a great add. The way he's regressed, you'd think Gran and Tuberville were coaching him.

Maybe next year will be our year. Cumberland is a true big time player. Washington will be huge upgrade over Ellis. Maybe Mick will trust Jenifer to run the offense at least some. Evans is a baller. Clark...he's an enigma...some days he looks like a player others he looks like one of micks infamous recruiting mistakes.

Then again heading into the spring with open scholarships....rarely a good thing for UC.

I liked that set out of the timeout. If you rewatch it, they used Clark as a screener and rolled him down to iso post his man with only Cobb on that side with him. Cleared out the rest. Cobb go the ball in perfect entry position with 2 man game. Chucked a 3

Now, you can argue that he should be told not to shoot, but at the end of the day your players have to know when to go off script and when they play is there. To me, that play was there and you make that pass.

We rebound any of their misses like we would have the last 7 years and we aren't looking through every shot with a microscope either though.

Yea this is what we call recency bias. They've lost all four tight games this year and everyone is not saying "all Mick's teams choke." Last year they pulled out games against Purdue, twice against SMU, and against NC State. Two years ago they did the same against Pitt, Temple, Houston, Louisville and UConn (hell even the loss to UConn they played well late, took the lead and lost on a last second shot).

The 0-4 in one possession games so far this year is the difference between UC being a top 10 team and a borderline tournament team (as of right now). Team has shown it has the potential to be very good. Need to start finishing these kind of games, but these things tend to even out. I'm not done by any means and the recency bias is no proof Mick's teams always choke.

Mick did not coach this team most of last year. When he did I recall not finishing against Nebraska. Just sayin'

(01-08-2016 08:03 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Yea this is what we call recency bias. They've lost all four tight games this year and everyone is not saying "all Mick's teams choke." Last year they pulled out games against Purdue, twice against SMU, and against NC State. Two years ago they did the same against Pitt, Temple, Houston, Louisville and UConn (hell even the loss to UConn they played well late, took the lead and lost on a last second shot).

The 0-4 in one possession games so far this year is the difference between UC being a top 10 team and a borderline tournament team (as of right now). Team has shown it has the potential to be very good. Need to start finishing these kind of games, but these things tend to even out. I'm not done by any means and the recency bias is no proof Mick's teams always choke.

our inside game is just not that great. its basically gary clark. ellis disappears against good teams, and, recently, his foul troubles have taken him out of being a factor in several games. What bothers is that, like last night, they seem to lack a plan at the end of games. They get a late lead, and then run the shot clock down and settle for a crappy shot or a turnover. It doesn't seem like they're really trying to score there / run a play, but are just hoping to run the clock out. what's wrong with trying to penetrate, and, if its not there, kicking it back out. But, when they penetrate with 2 or 3 seconds left on the clock, they're out of control.

I agree that they generally wait to long to run offense late. They keep putting players in situation where they have to penetrate late in the shot clock against a defense that hasn't been moved at all because they held the ball. This allows for pretty easy help and that results in weakside blocks. I thought Troy got fouled by his man on one of the late drives, but refs tend not to call that late, particularly when there is a clean weakside block up top. If you run offense and are shifting the defense that kind of drive late is going to be much harder to help on. They need to run offense like they have almost all year, but late in close games they switch it up and don't do the things that got them there.

(01-08-2016 08:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I agree that they generally wait to long to run offense late. They keep putting players in situation where they have to penetrate late in the shot clock against a defense that hasn't been moved at all because they held the ball. This allows for pretty easy help and that results in weakside blocks. I thought Troy got fouled by his man on one of the late drives, but refs tend not to call that late, particularly when there is a clean weakside block up top. If you run offense and are shifting the defense that kind of drive late is going to be much harder to help on. They need to run offense like they have almost all year, but late in close games they switch it up and don't do the things that got them there.

I'm not a Mick basher, but this team played a heck of a lot better under Davis last year!

(01-08-2016 08:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I agree that they generally wait to long to run offense late. They keep putting players in situation where they have to penetrate late in the shot clock against a defense that hasn't been moved at all because they held the ball. This allows for pretty easy help and that results in weakside blocks. I thought Troy got fouled by his man on one of the late drives, but refs tend not to call that late, particularly when there is a clean weakside block up top. If you run offense and are shifting the defense that kind of drive late is going to be much harder to help on. They need to run offense like they have almost all year, but late in close games they switch it up and don't do the things that got them there.

I agree with your analysis but it begs the question: is this a coaching breakdown or another example of not having a floor general--a true point guard who takes charge in crunch time? I've said it before; I think Troy is a terrific player but UC still lacks a prototypical point guard and pays the price. I'm hoping Jenifer is more that guy but how would we know since he hardly plays?

(01-08-2016 08:17 AM)Tomcat Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 08:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I agree that they generally wait to long to run offense late. They keep putting players in situation where they have to penetrate late in the shot clock against a defense that hasn't been moved at all because they held the ball. This allows for pretty easy help and that results in weakside blocks. I thought Troy got fouled by his man on one of the late drives, but refs tend not to call that late, particularly when there is a clean weakside block up top. If you run offense and are shifting the defense that kind of drive late is going to be much harder to help on. They need to run offense like they have almost all year, but late in close games they switch it up and don't do the things that got them there.

I'm not a Mick basher, but this team played a heck of a lot better under Davis last year!

This year's team is 30 in kenpom, last year's team was 34 in kenpom. This year's team has been exponentially better offensively... they sit 37th in adjusted offense vs. 104th last year. This year's team has not been near as good defensively only 44th vs. 15th last year in Kenpom adjust defense. However, the last two games that has come around a bit. They had plummeted to the 60s after the Temple game.

We've lost all 4 one possession games so things feel awful and the defense has not been as good as it should be this year, but just being honest this team is better than last year's an I am confident eventually their record will bare that out.

(01-08-2016 08:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 08:17 AM)Tomcat Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 08:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I agree that they generally wait to long to run offense late. They keep putting players in situation where they have to penetrate late in the shot clock against a defense that hasn't been moved at all because they held the ball. This allows for pretty easy help and that results in weakside blocks. I thought Troy got fouled by his man on one of the late drives, but refs tend not to call that late, particularly when there is a clean weakside block up top. If you run offense and are shifting the defense that kind of drive late is going to be much harder to help on. They need to run offense like they have almost all year, but late in close games they switch it up and don't do the things that got them there.

I'm not a Mick basher, but this team played a heck of a lot better under Davis last year!

This year's team is 30 in kenpom, last year's team was 34 in kenpom. This year's team has been exponentially better offensively... they sit 37th in adjusted offense vs. 104th last year. This year's team has not been near as good defensively only 44th vs. 15th last year in Kenpom adjust defense. However, the last two games that has come around a bit. They had plummeted to the 60s after the Temple game.

We've lost all 4 one possession games so things feel awful and the defense has not been as good as it should be this year, but just being honest this team is better than last year's an I am confident eventually their record will bare that out.

I agree - they're due to get a bounce / have a shot drop for them / have the other team's shot miss- but, it is frustrating, because I think they could still do a better job of game / clock management, especially down the stretch

(01-08-2016 08:27 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 08:17 AM)Tomcat Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 08:14 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  I agree that they generally wait to long to run offense late. They keep putting players in situation where they have to penetrate late in the shot clock against a defense that hasn't been moved at all because they held the ball. This allows for pretty easy help and that results in weakside blocks. I thought Troy got fouled by his man on one of the late drives, but refs tend not to call that late, particularly when there is a clean weakside block up top. If you run offense and are shifting the defense that kind of drive late is going to be much harder to help on. They need to run offense like they have almost all year, but late in close games they switch it up and don't do the things that got them there.

I'm not a Mick basher, but this team played a heck of a lot better under Davis last year!

This year's team is 30 in kenpom, last year's team was 34 in kenpom. This year's team has been exponentially better offensively... they sit 37th in adjusted offense vs. 104th last year. This year's team has not been near as good defensively only 44th vs. 15th last year in Kenpom adjust defense. However, the last two games that has come around a bit. They had plummeted to the 60s after the Temple game.

We've lost all 4 one possession games so things feel awful and the defense has not been as good as it should be this year, but just being honest this team is better than last year's an I am confident eventually their record will bare that out.

Mark I agree with everything in post. The only issue I have is they are running out of chances to prove themselves and things can turn toxic if the losses continue.

Officiating last night was the difference between and large lead and a one possession game. Mick continues to receive very little respect from the guys with the whistles. Once again winning out the rest of the month becomes very important.

The season is going to come down to the last five games and the conference tournament. At Tulsa, UConn, At ECU, At Houston, and SMU will likely represent four top 100 games and the two biggest home games in conference play. The key is getting there in good shape. That requires winning road games at Temple and Memphis and possibly UConn as well.

I don't see any spark or real grit on this team... They don't seem anxious to win nor do they seem troubled by the losses.

Fire.
Heart.
Pride.

Whatever you want to call it, there just isn't a whole lot of it in this collection of players.

Kind of seems endemic in UC athletics, FWIW.