If Rice were to play LSU or aTm at Rice Stadium, there would be more visiting fans than Rice fans. Where's the home field advantage there? That's always been the case. That was one problem with the athletic department's decision making process going back to the 1960s. As long as we could count on UT or LSU or aTm to come to town and bring a bunch of fans, that basically covered the athletic department budget and there was no need to develop Rice fans. Then it got more expensive to have competitive programs, and instead of generating revenues by building up our fan base, we declined to spend the money to be competitive. Then UT and LSU and aTm got tired of our minimal efforts to compete, and decided to stop bringing their fans to Rice Stadium.

There are not enough Rice fans to make a game at NRG a home game, so your solution is to stay away and reduce the number of Rice fans?

I agree that taking the money and playing aTm and LSU at their places is a viable option for financial reasons. I think taking a game at NRG when we can get it is a better option, but either is better than not playing them at all. But that merely invites the litany of complaints about bodybag games. If you haven't been among those raising those complaints then this part is not really directed at you. There are just a lot of people on here who seem to think that solving our problems is somebody else's responsibility. If the BOT would just spend more on athletics. If the B1G or ACC or Pac-12 would just invite us because of our academic qualifications. If LSU and aTm and UT would just play us home and home at Rice Stadium. If we just never play any bodybag games then we would be able to compete. If the administration would just lower admissions standards so we could have a larger recruiting pool. If, if, if....

We got into this situation because of the mindset of expecting someone else to solve our problems. Nobody else is going to solve our problems for us. Nobody else sees it as their mission to solve our problems. Again, we got into this mess by expecting somebody else to do it. We have to solve the problems ourselves. Step one is generating more income. That has never, ever, ever, ever been a priority of Rice athletics, save for three years under Chris and now under JK. We can't play anyone, anytime, anywhere unless that anyone is willing to play us at that anytime and anywhere. And for games that we need to play in order to make the money that we need to succeed, Rice Stadium is not an acceptable anywhere. What we need to do is to develop a reliable 30-35,000 fan base. As you note, we are nowhere close to that, so we have to take interim measures that will help us get there. $1.3 million from LSU for going to Tiger Stadium is one of those measures. Getting them and aTm to come to NRG is another.

My own preference would be an OOC schedule of UH home-and-home, LSU and aTm on a 2-for-1 basis with the 1 at NRG if necessary, and a like-minded academic school or service academy (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vandy, Army, Navy, Air Force). That would get us back to pretty much the same financial footing as we were on in the old SWC days. Then we need to build from there, and develop that 30-35,000 fan base. And that starts with building student support and revitalizing the MOB. I think it would be a really neat experience to go up to an Ivy school occasionally in that fourth slot (they have conference travel restrictions that would probably preclude home-and-home, but I think a Rice trip to Harvard or Yale or Penn in the fall would be a marvelous fan experience).

To use your metaphor, if you don't like the sausage, then you need to get involved in the sausage-making process. You say you have a greater understanding of the business side than I give you credit for. OK, what's your solution?

(01-12-2016 11:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If Rice were to play LSU or aTm at Rice Stadium, there would be more visiting fans than Rice fans. Where's the home field advantage there? That's always been the case. That was one problem with the athletic department's decision making process going back to the 1960s. As long as we could count on UT or LSU or aTm to come to town and bring a bunch of fans, that basically covered the athletic department budget and there was no need to develop Rice fans. Then it got more expensive to have competitive programs, and instead of generating revenues by building up our fan base, we declined to spend the money to be competitive. Then UT and LSU and aTm got tired of our minimal efforts to compete, and decided to stop bringing their fans to Rice Stadium.

There are not enough Rice fans to make a game at NRG a home game, so your solution is to stay away and reduce the number of Rice fans?

I agree that taking the money and playing aTm and LSU at their places is a viable option for financial reasons. I think taking a game at NRG when we can get it is a better option, but either is better than not playing them at all. But that merely invites the litany of complaints about bodybag games. If you haven't been among those raising those complaints then this part is not really directed at you. There are just a lot of people on here who seem to think that solving our problems is somebody else's responsibility. If the BOT would just spend more on athletics. If the B1G or ACC or Pac-12 would just invite us because of our academic qualifications. If LSU and aTm and UT would just play us home and home at Rice Stadium. If we just never play any bodybag games then we would be able to compete. If the administration would just lower admissions standards so we could have a larger recruiting pool. If, if, if....

We got into this situation because of the mindset of expecting someone else to solve our problems. Nobody else is going to solve our problems for us. Nobody else sees it as their mission to solve our problems. Again, we got into this mess by expecting somebody else to do it. We have to solve the problems ourselves. Step one is generating more income. That has never, ever, ever, ever been a priority of Rice athletics, save for three years under Chris and now under JK. We can't play anyone, anytime, anywhere unless that anyone is willing to play us at that anytime and anywhere. And for games that we need to play in order to make the money that we need to succeed, Rice Stadium is not an acceptable anywhere. What we need to do is to develop a reliable 30-35,000 fan base. As you note, we are nowhere close to that, so we have to take interim measures that will help us get there. $1.3 million from LSU for going to Tiger Stadium is one of those measures. Getting them and aTm to come to NRG is another.

My own preference would be an OOC schedule of UH home-and-home, LSU and aTm on a 2-for-1 basis with the 1 at NRG if necessary, and a like-minded academic school or service academy (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vandy, Army, Navy, Air Force). That would get us back to pretty much the same financial footing as we were on in the old SWC days. Then we need to build from there, and develop that 30-35,000 fan base. And that starts with building student support and revitalizing the MOB. I think it would be a really neat experience to go up to an Ivy school occasionally in that fourth slot (they have conference travel restrictions that would probably preclude home-and-home, but I think a Rice trip to Harvard or Yale or Penn in the fall would be a marvelous fan experience).

To use your metaphor, if you don't like the sausage, then you need to get involved in the sausage-making process. You say you have a greater understanding of the business side than I give you credit for. OK, what's your solution?

You are preaching to the choir in much of what you say. You are saving the Rice World. I admire your zeal.

I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

I have no solutions, as I do not believe there is one. Thus my reduction in time and money donated to Rice Athletics. Previously you said this is not sport, this is a business. You are of course correct. Sadly it has never been treated as such at Rice.

I wish you sincere luck in your quest. My only request is to stop using me as your example of what not to do. You could do worse than having someone buy the tshirt, buy tickets, travel to games, and financially support the school to the level of becoming a a Rice Associate several years ago.

I am lamenting the time when Wayne retires and I no longer have a reason to visit your beautiful campus and meet my other non Rice friends there.

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  You are preaching to the choir in much of what you say. You are saving the Rice World. I admire your zeal.
I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.
I have no solutions, as I do not believe there is one. Thus my reduction in time and money donated to Rice Athletics. Previously you said this is not sport, this is a business. You are of course correct. Sadly it has never been treated as such at Rice.
I wish you sincere luck in your quest. My only request is to stop using me as your example of what not to do. You could do worse than having someone buy the tshirt, buy tickets, travel to games, and financially support the school to the level of becoming a a Rice Associate several years ago.
I am lamenting the time when Wayne retires and I no longer have a reason to visit your beautiful campus and meet my other non Rice friends there.

Fair enough.

I still believe there is one, but it's going to require a totally different approach from "the Rice way." I have preached to a succession of athletic directors who were anything but the choir. Bobby understood the athletic side of the job, but not the business side. Bobby spent his entire life, from 18 until he retired at Rice, except IIRC for about six months working on a real estate deal in San Antonio that didn't succeed. He had no perspective except "the Rice way." He did "the Rice way" about as well as it could be done, but it was still a flawed and ultimately doomed approach. I always wished that he had spent a few years at Duke, or working for Canham at Michigan, or at Stanford, so he could have been introduced to the other 90% of the job. I could at least have intelligent conversation with Chris Del Conte, did on many occasions, consider him a good friend, and we still talk occasionally. Same for David Saylor, although unfortunately I didn't really get to know him well until after he left. We've had people who understood--Steve Moniaci and Mike Pede were two others, who became incredibly frustrated by their inability to get people above them to understand. I guess I'm just dumb enough to think I can have an impact at some point.

I'm not picking on you. You happened to make the post to which I replied. I would say that you're my example of how a succession of athletic directors completely screwed the pooch.

Maybe Bobby should have let underlings who know more about the business side run the business side-a matter of delegation. Wayne has been able to do something with baseball unlike what has happened with football and MBB the last 50 years.

(01-12-2016 01:51 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  You are preaching to the choir in much of what you say. You are saving the Rice World. I admire your zeal.
I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.
I have no solutions, as I do not believe there is one. Thus my reduction in time and money donated to Rice Athletics. Previously you said this is not sport, this is a business. You are of course correct. Sadly it has never been treated as such at Rice.
I wish you sincere luck in your quest. My only request is to stop using me as your example of what not to do. You could do worse than having someone buy the tshirt, buy tickets, travel to games, and financially support the school to the level of becoming a a Rice Associate several years ago.
I am lamenting the time when Wayne retires and I no longer have a reason to visit your beautiful campus and meet my other non Rice friends there.

Fair enough.

I still believe there is one, but it's going to require a totally different approach from "the Rice way." I have preached to a succession of athletic directors who were anything but the choir. Bobby understood the athletic side of the job, but not the business side. Bobby spent his entire life, from 18 until he retired at Rice, except IIRC for about six months working on a real estate deal in San Antonio that didn't succeed. He had no perspective except "the Rice way." He did "the Rice way" about as well as it could be done, but it was still a flawed and ultimately doomed approach. I always wished that he had spent a few years at Duke, or working for Canham at Michigan, or at Stanford, so he could have been introduced to the other 90% of the job. I could at least have intelligent conversation with Chris Del Conte, did on many occasions, consider him a good friend, and we still talk occasionally. Same for David Saylor, although unfortunately I didn't really get to know him well until after he left. We've had people who understood--Steve Moniaci and Mike Pede were two others, who became incredibly frustrated by their inability to get people above them to understand. I guess I'm just dumb enough to think I can have an impact at some point.

I'm not picking on you. You happened to make the post to which I replied. I would say that you're my example of how a succession of athletic directors completely screwed the pooch.

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  Previously you said this is not sport, this is a business. You are of course correct. Sadly it has never been treated as such at Rice.

The part about my being correct may be debated by some on here.

But not the rest. You nailed it. Dead solid perfect.

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

(01-12-2016 10:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

This I agree with completely. We play aTm at NRG as it gives us much needed revenue. Plus HRS would be a disaster if aTm came to town - having run stuff for Rice in the stadium during the 44,000 attended Katy-Pearland game in 2011, I can assure you that it was a nightmare. Parking, concessions, bathrooms are a mess.

I'm more unhappy that we have to play F_U at all than I am with us playing aTm at HRS. The latter gives us a chance to use the money to improve. The former, not so much.

Rice Stadium is a dump. We can't handle 70000 people.

(01-13-2016 12:40 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Rice Stadium is a dump. We can't handle 70000 people.

FIFY.

(*And yes, I am aware that I am exaggerating some)

(01-12-2016 10:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

As a fan, I can only decide to attend or not attend those games on Rice Football's schedule. I have chosen not to attend the aTm game at NRG. Seems simple to me. There is a good chance that I would set my DVR to record the game, if possible. Have we not already established this?

On a completely unrelated note, I will likely travel to LSU to see the game there.

(01-13-2016 12:40 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  Rice Stadium is a dump. We can't handle 70000 people.

With the north endzone seats gone it no longer seats 70,000. Problem solved!

(01-13-2016 02:18 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

As a fan, I can only decide to attend or not attend those games on Rice Football's schedule. I have chosen not to attend the aTm game at NRG. Seems simple to me. There is a good chance that I would set my DVR to record the game, if possible. Have we not already established this?

On a completely unrelated note, I will likely travel to LSU to see the game there.

The paltry attendance by Rice fans for the UH game at Reliant in 2012 indicated to me that any time we go to Reliant, our small contingent of fans will be even smaller. We get NO student turn out, even for games where we would expect to get a decent turn out.

But for a game like this, the pay out that is likely contingent on playing the game at Reliant is worth more than not playing the game at all.

(01-13-2016 08:00 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 02:18 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

As a fan, I can only decide to attend or not attend those games on Rice Football's schedule. I have chosen not to attend the aTm game at NRG. Seems simple to me. There is a good chance that I would set my DVR to record the game, if possible. Have we not already established this?

On a completely unrelated note, I will likely travel to LSU to see the game there.

The paltry attendance by Rice fans for the UH game at Reliant in 2012 indicated to me that any time we go to Reliant, our small contingent of fans will be even smaller. We get NO student turn out, even for games where we would expect to get a decent turn out.

But for a game like this, the pay out that is likely contingent on playing the game at Reliant is worth more than not playing the game at all.

Student attendance was pretty decent for UT the last time we played them there. Throw a tailgate by the light rail again ( Sid or Lovett) and let all the students go over as a group. If we play A&M or UT people will even go to college station or Austin to watch.

(01-13-2016 02:18 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

As a fan, I can only decide to attend or not attend those games on Rice Football's schedule. I have chosen not to attend the aTm game at NRG. Seems simple to me. There is a good chance that I would set my DVR to record the game, if possible. Have we not already established this?
On a completely unrelated note, I will likely travel to LSU to see the game there.

We already know about your decision. I'm asking a different question. Since you don't like playing at NRG, what should RICE do instead? In other words, what is an alternative course of action that you would support instead?

(01-13-2016 08:08 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 02:18 AM)13thOwl Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 10:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 12:45 PM)13thOwl Wrote:  I am not going to NRG to watch Rice vs aTm.

So, what should Rice do instead of playing aTm at NRG?

As a fan, I can only decide to attend or not attend those games on Rice Football's schedule. I have chosen not to attend the aTm game at NRG. Seems simple to me. There is a good chance that I would set my DVR to record the game, if possible. Have we not already established this?
On a completely unrelated note, I will likely travel to LSU to see the game there.

We already know about your decision. I'm asking a different question. Since you don't like playing at NRG, what should RICE do instead? In other words, what is an alternative course of action that you would support instead?

I understand the Baylor home game will be held at HRS, per Shu.

Would you stipulate that there are only maybe four teams Rice should play at NRG (for some unspecified time): Texas, aTm, tOSU, and LSU? Perhaps there are others, but it matters not. I would play those games at NRG, unless there was a significant pay advantage to playing those teams at their location. Neutral site games are not home games no matter how much lipstick is put on the pig.

I would attend some and not attend others. You see Rice has my support, just not my automatic attendance.