(01-06-2016 07:45 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 04:12 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 04:01 PM)Pimpa Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 03:35 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 03:31 PM)Ranger Wrote:  Does anyone know what MK is doing now.

I don't know what he is doing ... and I still follow him on twitter! He covers the local pro sports teams, but I am not sure how often or where he publishes anything, or for who.

He generally still has a place in his heart for Rice, but then he'll post stuff like this on twitter:

MoiseKapenda Bower ‏@moisekapenda 31 Dec 2015
I remember when #Rice fans derisively called Tom Herman “Mensa” when they disagreed with his play-calling. Halcyon days. #PeachBowl #UHvsFSU

Russell Henderson @RVHenderson
@moisekapenda sometimes, it's not the right fit. Was Belichick a "genius" at Cleveland?

MoiseKapenda Bower ‏@moisekapenda 31 Dec 2015
MoiseKapenda Bower Retweeted Russell Henderson
Don’t think it was a “fit” issue. It was classic Rice haughtiness dismissing a young coordinator. Elated for him.

MK was always great at calling a spade a spade. It's what got him canned while writing for Rice.

After his "haughtiness" tweet, I sent him this: "some haughtiness can develop among those with the intestinal fortitude to stay for all 4 years to earn a Rice degree."

Boom.

I think you make a lot of crappy posts on this board, so it's notable that I think this is the most classless thing you've written here.

(01-06-2016 08:07 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 07:45 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 04:12 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 04:01 PM)Pimpa Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 03:35 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I don't know what he is doing ... and I still follow him on twitter! He covers the local pro sports teams, but I am not sure how often or where he publishes anything, or for who.

He generally still has a place in his heart for Rice, but then he'll post stuff like this on twitter:

MoiseKapenda Bower ‏@moisekapenda 31 Dec 2015
I remember when #Rice fans derisively called Tom Herman “Mensa” when they disagreed with his play-calling. Halcyon days. #PeachBowl #UHvsFSU

Russell Henderson @RVHenderson
@moisekapenda sometimes, it's not the right fit. Was Belichick a "genius" at Cleveland?

MoiseKapenda Bower ‏@moisekapenda 31 Dec 2015
MoiseKapenda Bower Retweeted Russell Henderson
Don’t think it was a “fit” issue. It was classic Rice haughtiness dismissing a young coordinator. Elated for him.

MK was always great at calling a spade a spade. It's what got him canned while writing for Rice.

After his "haughtiness" tweet, I sent him this: "some haughtiness can develop among those with the intestinal fortitude to stay for all 4 years to earn a Rice degree."

Boom.

I think you make a lot of crappy posts on this board, so it's notable that I think this is the most classless thing you've written here.

I gave him a way out of his anti-Rice comment with the Belichick analogy. He chose to double down, and I considered it to be an attack on Rice supporters (and he has taken many, many shots at Rice in the past). If he would have prefaced his "haughtiness" tweet with his personal issues with Rice, then there would have been no need to respond. I don't need him or anyone else talking about "haughtiness" without being very specific about his target. I don't regard myself as "better" because I was graduated from Rice, and neither do my friends who also are alums.

(01-06-2016 08:18 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 08:07 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 07:45 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 04:12 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 04:01 PM)Pimpa Wrote:  He generally still has a place in his heart for Rice, but then he'll post stuff like this on twitter:

MoiseKapenda Bower ‏@moisekapenda 31 Dec 2015
I remember when #Rice fans derisively called Tom Herman “Mensa” when they disagreed with his play-calling. Halcyon days. #PeachBowl #UHvsFSU

Russell Henderson @RVHenderson
@moisekapenda sometimes, it's not the right fit. Was Belichick a "genius" at Cleveland?

MoiseKapenda Bower ‏@moisekapenda 31 Dec 2015
MoiseKapenda Bower Retweeted Russell Henderson
Don’t think it was a “fit” issue. It was classic Rice haughtiness dismissing a young coordinator. Elated for him.

MK was always great at calling a spade a spade. It's what got him canned while writing for Rice.

After his "haughtiness" tweet, I sent him this: "some haughtiness can develop among those with the intestinal fortitude to stay for all 4 years to earn a Rice degree."

Boom.

I think you make a lot of crappy posts on this board, so it's notable that I think this is the most classless thing you've written here.

I gave him a way out of his anti-Rice comment with the Belichick analogy. He chose to double down, and I considered it to be an attack on Rice supporters (and he has taken many, many shots at Rice in the past). If he would have prefaced his "haughtiness" tweet with his personal issues with Rice, then there would have been no need to respond. I don't need him or anyone else talking about "haughtiness" without being very specific about his target. I don't regard myself as "better" because I was graduated from Rice, and neither do my friends who also are alums.

I vote for classless as well. Ironic since both you and MK shared the wrath of RG.

****, ****, balls

Damn. Her coverage wasn't the greatest, but it was plentiful and a step up from one half of Duarte.

MK would be incredible to have back. As RiceLad said, he called a spade a spade.

(01-06-2016 08:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In case some of you don't remember, I was one of those criticizing Mensa pretty heavily when he was here. In the years since he left, our offense continues to have pretty much the same problems that I criticized when he was here, while his offenses have looked very different. Two possibilities--one, he learned a lot from Paul Rhoas and Urban Meyer; two, the problem was Bailiff and not Mensa. I'll leave you to figure out which one, or to what degree each one applies.

What? How does our current shithole offense bear a substantive resemblance to the nationally ranked offense we had under Herman?

His offense at Rice were better than any he had at Iowa State.

I have used the Mensa OC nickname for Herman. Never meant for it to be derisive or condescending. Just a nickname based on a salient and atypical feature for a football coach.

(01-07-2016 08:50 AM)talon owl Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 08:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In case some of you don't remember, I was one of those criticizing Mensa pretty heavily when he was here. In the years since he left, our offense continues to have pretty much the same problems that I criticized when he was here, while his offenses have looked very different. Two possibilities--one, he learned a lot from Paul Rhoas and Urban Meyer; two, the problem was Bailiff and not Mensa. I'll leave you to figure out which one, or to what degree each one applies.

What? How does our current shithole offense bear a substantive resemblance to the nationally ranked offense we had under Herman?
His offense at Rice were better than any he had at Iowa State.
I have used the Mensa OC nickname for Herman. Never meant for it to be derisive or condescending. Just a nickname based on a salient and atypical feature for a football coach.

It's basically the same offense running the same plays, except for the addition of the Wild Owl and the Meerkat (neither of which I see as a positive). The difference is not a different scheme, but different people to run it. If we had Chase, Thor, and Dillard in their prime today, the offense would be as good as it was in 2008.

His offense at Rice was statistically better than his offense at Iowa State because the people he had to run it at Rice were better relative to their opponents. I saw him evolve to some degree at Iowa State, in that he seemed more open to change, and that continued and accelerated at Ohio State. His offense at UH is more different from his offense at Rice than what Rice is doing today differs from what Rice did under him. In retrospect, that suggests where the inflexibility at Rice was coming from.

That's one of my criticisms of our offense. It's totally dependent on what talent you plug into it. There's nothing there to make use of particular or unique skill sets, it's just plug that square peg into that round hole and see what happens. We don't adjust to our talent.

(01-07-2016 09:18 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  That's one of my criticisms of our offense. It's totally dependent on what talent you plug into it. There's nothing there to make use of particular or unique skill sets, it's just plug that square peg into that round hole and see what happens. We don't adjust to our talent.

Good point. One of the things the commentators on Texans broadcasts keep going back to is O'Brien and staff mold their plans around their personnel and their strengths rather than the reverse.

I haven't followed Herman that closely after he left Rice, but what has evolved in his offense? Looking at it from a purely superficial standpoint, it looks pretty similar in that he has produced another superb dual threat quarterback (~3k yds passing and >1k rushing) and runs a similar offense (run based spread, which is basically what we did back in 2008). Things have almost certainly evolved in 8 years for Herman, but I think that Herman has also benefited from the players he has had at Ohio State and UH. From my very uneducated position, it seems less like Herman's offensive philosophy changed significantly and more like he has the right personnel for the job.

edit: I just did some quick looking to see what I could find about Herman and his offense. So here are some articles:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...se-defense - talks about his offense the "smashmouth spread" and how UH was well equipped with players to run it

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...tom-herman - probably the most interesting. Herman says he studied what Meyers was doing going back to 2005. Apparently when Herman was hired at Ohio State, Meyer mentioned that he knew him from his days at Rice and how he noticed that Herman and Rice "kind of matched with his philosophy of offensive football."

Double edit: I just found out that Herman worked with DB white at Texas State in 2005 where his offense was pretty spectacular (8th in the country in scoring).

Regardless of what he has learned or refined since then, he was referred to as "Mensa" in what I considered a sardonic manner, as in "look at the stupid play calling from this guy who is supposed to be a genius".

Remember, his first year was 2007.

From wiki:

"In 2007, Herman then followed head coach David Bailiff from Texas State to form the new coaching staff at Rice. With a reputation for engineering high-powered offensive attacks, Herman’s offense smashed nearly 40 offensive records during his first season as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Owls"

is that the way yall remember it?

I did not follow the Rice coverage, but I certainly hope The Chronicle is not going marginalize its coverage of Rice athletics similar to what it has done with TSU.

(01-07-2016 09:35 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I haven't followed Herman that closely after he left Rice, but what has evolved in his offense? Looking at it from a purely superficial standpoint, it looks pretty similar in that he has produced another superb dual threat quarterback (~3k yds passing and >1k rushing) and runs a similar offense (run based spread, which is basically what we did back in 2008). Things have almost certainly evolved in 8 years for Herman, but I think that Herman has also benefited from the players he has had at Ohio State and UH. From my very uneducated position, it seems less like Herman's offensive philosophy changed significantly and more like he has the right personnel for the job.
edit: I just did some quick looking to see what I could find about Herman and his offense. So here are some articles:
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...se-defense - talks about his offense the "smashmouth spread" and how UH was well equipped with players to run it
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id...tom-herman - probably the most interesting. Herman says he studied what Meyers was doing going back to 2005. Apparently when Herman was hired at Ohio State, Meyer mentioned that he knew him from his days at Rice and how he noticed that Herman and Rice "kind of matched with his philosophy of offensive football."
Double edit: I just found out that Herman worked with DB white at Texas State in 2005 where his offense was pretty spectacular (8th in the country in scoring).

The running game appears much more diversified than Rice, then or now. He lets his quarterback run more than he let Chase (at least before whatever revolt happened in midseason 2007) or than Rice let Driphus. When you have one running play, the zone read, and your quarterback is not a threat to keep, you don't really have a running attack. I see a lot of Malzahn influence in what he's doing at UH, and none of that in Rice, then or now. Comparing Rice 2008 to Houston 2015, UH ran the ball for almost twice as many yards, and threw the ball for 1000 fewer yards.

He's got more run-pass option, more moving the quarterback around instead of sitting in the pocket. I've posted before that I think whatever the 2007 player revolt actually amounted to, it was probably what made Herman as a coach. Once her let Chase and Thor and Dillard out of their straight jackets, the offense took on a whole different character the second half of 2007 and through 2008. His stops since then have been more like the post-transition Rice offense, and Rice under Bailiff has reverted to what we did the first half of 2007.

The Texas State offense had Barrick Nealy at quarterback, who had the ability to start for an FBS national champion (if he had been able to make his grades). He played 5 years in Canada after Texas State. Rice people may remember him from his one year at UH. I thought he was a great talent from the time I first saw him play in high school.

Didn't chase have more roll-outs to let him throw outside the pocket? Not as many games available to watch for out-of-towners back in 2007-08. But the rarity of roll-outs or bootlegs the last 5 years has always amazed me (in a negative way).

(01-07-2016 10:31 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Didn't chase have more roll-outs to let him throw outside the pocket? Not as many games available to watch for out-of-towners back in 2007-08. But the rarity of roll-outs or bootlegs the last 5 years has always amazed me (in a negative way).

That and the obvious use of a run option that didn't focus on letting the QB keep it like Chase did. The only times DJ was making good plays with his feet was when he was running for his life.

(01-07-2016 10:31 AM)mrbig Wrote:  Didn't chase have more roll-outs to let him throw outside the pocket? Not as many games available to watch for out-of-towners back in 2007-08. But the rarity of roll-outs or bootlegs the last 5 years has always amazed me (in a negative way).

Chase did after mid-season 2007. He was welded into the pocket the first half of 2007, with awful results. There either was or was not--depending on whose version of the story you get--a player revolt after the Marshall game. The most interesting version that I heard was that it started with Chase's father jumping all over him, and that pissed him off so he went and confronted the coaches. There are so many different versions, from a very rowdy flight home from Marshall to no revolt at all, so I don't know exactly what happened. To touch briefly on the subject of the OP, there was mention of a revolt in a Chronicle article (and IIRC the article quoted Chase's father) after the Marshall game, so I think something probably did happen, but not sure what.

Revolt or no revolt, there was clearly a marked change in the offense after that, with Chase running more and rolling out more, until the end of 2008. After Chase and Tom left, we reverted back to the old and haven't changed since.

(01-07-2016 10:04 AM)Mademen Wrote:  I did not follow the Rice coverage, but I certainly hope The Chronicle is not going marginalize its coverage of Rice athletics similar to what it has done with TSU.

Beat writer aside, I think that ship has pretty much sailed.

(01-07-2016 10:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Regardless of what he has learned or refined since then, he was referred to as "Mensa" in what I considered a sardonic manner, as in "look at the stupid play calling from this guy who is supposed to be a genius".
Remember, his first year was 2007.
From wiki:
"In 2007, Herman then followed head coach David Bailiff from Texas State to form the new coaching staff at Rice. With a reputation for engineering high-powered offensive attacks, Herman’s offense smashed nearly 40 offensive records during his first season as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Owls"
is that the way yall remember it?

It was the second year, 2008, that set the records. The first half of 2007 was pretty brutal. The loss to Nicholls and the magnitude of the loss to Baylor were particularly dreadful. Something happened at mid-season and the offense changed dramatically for the better in the second half of 2007 and 2008. I have disclosed the extent that I know about exactly what did happen in another post, so won't repeat here.

(01-07-2016 11:02 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Regardless of what he has learned or refined since then, he was referred to as "Mensa" in what I considered a sardonic manner, as in "look at the stupid play calling from this guy who is supposed to be a genius".
Remember, his first year was 2007.
From wiki:
"In 2007, Herman then followed head coach David Bailiff from Texas State to form the new coaching staff at Rice. With a reputation for engineering high-powered offensive attacks, Herman’s offense smashed nearly 40 offensive records during his first season as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Owls"
is that the way yall remember it?

It was the second year, 2008, that set the records. The first half of 2007 was pretty brutal. The loss to Nicholls and the magnitude of the loss to Baylor were particularly dreadful. Something happened at mid-season and the offense changed dramatically for the better in the second half of 2007 and 2008. I have disclosed the extent that I know about exactly what did happen in another post, so won't repeat here.

By comparison the 42-17 loss in 2007 looks positively delightful after the embarrassment of 2015.

On a side note, I need to do more analysis on margin of victory. Reviewing the 3-9 season, we got blown out a whole lot less than we have recently.

(01-07-2016 11:16 AM)Antarius Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:02 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 10:03 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Regardless of what he has learned or refined since then, he was referred to as "Mensa" in what I considered a sardonic manner, as in "look at the stupid play calling from this guy who is supposed to be a genius".
Remember, his first year was 2007.
From wiki:
"In 2007, Herman then followed head coach David Bailiff from Texas State to form the new coaching staff at Rice. With a reputation for engineering high-powered offensive attacks, Herman’s offense smashed nearly 40 offensive records during his first season as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for the Owls"
is that the way yall remember it?

It was the second year, 2008, that set the records. The first half of 2007 was pretty brutal. The loss to Nicholls and the magnitude of the loss to Baylor were particularly dreadful. Something happened at mid-season and the offense changed dramatically for the better in the second half of 2007 and 2008. I have disclosed the extent that I know about exactly what did happen in another post, so won't repeat here.

By comparison the 42-17 loss in 2007 looks positively delightful after the embarrassment of 2015.

On a side note, I need to do more analysis on margin of victory. Reviewing the 3-9 season, we got blown out a whole lot less than we have recently.

here is some help for you.

Nov 24, 2007 Houston, Texas Tulsa 48, Rice Owls 43
Nov 17, 2007 Houston, Texas Tulane 45, Rice Owls 31
Nov 10, 2007 Dallas, Texas Rice Owls 43, SMU 42
Nov 03, 2007 Houston, TX Rice Owls 56, UTEP 48
Oct 27, 2007 Huntington, W.Va. MARSHALL 34, Rice Owls 21 Oct 20, 2007 Houston, Texas Univ. of Memphis 38, Rice Owls 35
Oct 13, 2007 Houston, Texas Houston 56, Rice Owls 48 Box score
Oct 03, 2007 Hattiesburg, Miss. Rice Owls 31, Southern Miss 29
Sep 22, 2007 Austin, Texas Texas 58, Rice Owls 14
Sep 15, 2007 Houston, Texas Texas Tech 59, Rice Owls 24
Sep 08, 2007 Waco, Texas Baylor 42, Rice Owls 17
Sep 01, 2007 Houston, Texas Nicholls State 16, Rice Owls 14

I was at that Baylor game, and it wasn't as close as the score implies.

After that 0-4 start, his goose was cooked, and for most people it has remained cooked ever since. He had nobody making excuses for him in his first year, the second year after Hatfield. I left Waco ready to contribute to a moving van. I think it was worse, since we had had such a powerhouse of a bowl team the year before, having thrashed Troy 17-41. Say what you want about Graham, but he always knew when to jump ship.

(01-07-2016 11:31 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  here is some help for you.
Nov 24, 2007 Houston, Texas Tulsa 48, Rice Owls 43
Nov 17, 2007 Houston, Texas Tulane 45, Rice Owls 31
Nov 10, 2007 Dallas, Texas Rice Owls 43, SMU 42
Nov 03, 2007 Houston, TX Rice Owls 56, UTEP 48
Oct 27, 2007 Huntington, W.Va. MARSHALL 34, Rice Owls 21
Oct 20, 2007 Houston, Texas Univ. of Memphis 38, Rice Owls 35
Oct 13, 2007 Houston, Texas Houston 56, Rice Owls 48
Oct 03, 2007 Hattiesburg, Miss. Rice Owls 31, Southern Miss 29
Sep 22, 2007 Austin, Texas Texas 58, Rice Owls 14
Sep 15, 2007 Houston, Texas Texas Tech 59, Rice Owls 24
Sep 08, 2007 Waco, Texas Baylor 42, Rice Owls 17
Sep 01, 2007 Houston, Texas Nicholls State 16, Rice Owls 14
I was at that Baylor game, and it wasn't as close as the score implies.
After that 0-4 start, his goose was cooked, and for most people it has remained cooked ever since. He had nobody making excuses for him in his first year, the second year after Hatfield. I left Waco ready to contribute to a moving van. I think it was worse, since we had had such a powerhouse of a bowl team the year before, having thrashed Troy 17-41. Say what you want about Graham, but he always knew when to jump ship.

2009-11 is what did it for me. I was unhappy with 2007, but after 2008 I thought he had earned another chance. My real question after his record at Texas State was whether he could sustain. He blew that chance in 2009-11. Not only did we lose and lose and lose, but we looked totally inept in doing so. Those teams looked so disorganized that it was sometimes hard to believe that they had ever practiced.

Two things stand out from looking back over those scores:
1) I thought the defense was horrible in 2007 but some of those scores look positively stellar compared to recent results. Then again, we gave up 515 points, or 42.9 per game, back then, and only 430, or 35.8 per game this year. I think the difference is that this year we had games where we didn't give up that many, whereas in 2007 we gave up a bunch almost every week. We gave up over 40 eight times in 2007, only 5 times in 2015. Agree that Baylor (and Marshall, among others) were not as close as the final scores indicated.
2) First 8 games we scored 204 points, or 25.5 per game. Last 4 games we scored 173, or 43.3 per game. Even allowing for quality of defenses faced, that's a huge difference. Something changed.

You last comment provokes one thought. It seems to me that a lot of the Bailiff supporters have a lot of Todd hatred driving a lot of their comments. I've just never had that much venom toward Todd. He was what he was, and frankly at that point in time we needed some of that. But only about as much as we got. I'm glad he came and I'm glad he left. At the Parliament get-together at Damian's, somebody (I think it was Antarius) said about Todd, "If he hadn't come, we probably wouldn't have football today." And I replied, "And if he had stayed we probably wouldn't have football today, either." I think both have some truth, although obviously for different reasons. The thing that truly amazes me about Todd is that he hasn't gotten any program on probation. I think that's because he has a Grant Teaff level of understanding just how far he can bend the rules without getting caught.