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Basketball 1/3-1/9
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
The MAC was the only conference in the top 12 last year not to have an at-large bid. CMU was the MAC regular season champ and MACC runner-up but killed any chance for at-large consideration with a down right awful OOC schedule.

CMU's OOC schedule with RPI last season ('14-'15)-
W 127 Northwestern
W 274 Grand Canyon
W 279 McNeese St.
L 288 Bradley
W 291 Youngstown St
W 292 SIU Edwardsville
W 301 AR Pine Bluff
W 339 Maine

The MAC regular season champ played 1 team in OOC with an RPI better than #274, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MACC runner-up again this season with a similar problem, given how poor the SOS is of a lot of teams at the end of OOC play this year.
01-05-2016 01:42 PM
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wleakr Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-05-2016 12:12 PM)OUVan Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 02:02 PM)wleakr Wrote:  What website are you using?

The below links have the MAC at #14:

http://rpiratings.com/mensrpi.php

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketba...pi/2015-16

Forget which site it is but one of them splits the Conference into East and West and lists them separately. I believe it had the East at #10 earlier. I'm betting he got it from there.

Jeff Sagarin ratings (has the MAC east at #11 and west #15):

http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm
01-05-2016 03:49 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #23
Basketball 1/3-1/9
SI has done a "Mid-Major Reset" but has nothing good to say about the MAC. They mention what a bad loss Valpo had to Ball St. and what a flop CMU has been and that's it.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...nl_siextra
01-05-2016 04:40 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Question for the State University of New York at Buffalo fans

Watching the game vs Akron on the American Sports Network via ESPN3 and the scoreboard graphic on screen has the school's name listed as "UB" and the announcers are using "UB" to reference the team with regularity. Does that come from the school or is is this network just doing what it wants? Seems like an odd choice to have the name listed as UB right beside the UB logo.
01-05-2016 07:50 PM
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uakronkid Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Akron wins at Buffalo 75-71. First win there for the Zips since 2009. Buffalo exposed Akron's guards' lack of lateral quickness, though. Buffalo's guards were able to drive at will.
01-05-2016 09:08 PM
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Slinkin Street Flash Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Kent State beats Western Michigan 87-84 in overtime. Jimmy Hall, 21 points, Thomas Wilder 28 points
01-05-2016 09:25 PM
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BullBoy Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-05-2016 07:50 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Question for the State University of New York at Buffalo fans

Watching the game vs Akron on the American Sports Network via ESPN3 and the scoreboard graphic on screen has the school's name listed as "UB" and the announcers are using "UB" to reference the team with regularity. Does that come from the school or is is this network just doing what it wants? Seems like an odd choice to have the name listed as UB right beside the UB logo.

I don't think Buffalo would fit on there and nobody really uses BUF or BUFF to describe us so that was only option
01-05-2016 09:55 PM
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OhioBobcatJohn Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Akron and Kent State get big road wins to open conference play. Not a surprise again its Akron and Kent State as the top teams in the MAC.
01-05-2016 11:06 PM
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T-Town Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-05-2016 01:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The MAC was the only conference in the top 12 last year not to have an at-large bid. CMU was the MAC regular season champ and MACC runner-up but killed any chance for at-large consideration with a down right awful OOC schedule.

CMU's OOC schedule with RPI last season ('14-'15)-
W 127 Northwestern
W 274 Grand Canyon
W 279 McNeese St.
L 288 Bradley
W 291 Youngstown St
W 292 SIU Edwardsville
W 301 AR Pine Bluff
W 339 Maine

The MAC regular season champ played 1 team in OOC with an RPI better than #274, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MACC runner-up again this season with a similar problem, given how poor the SOS is of a lot of teams at the end of OOC play this year.

You argument makes perfectly good sense and is almost surely the exact same argument the selection committee would use. But I am jaded enough and cynical enough to believe that with all those big bucks riding on the NCAA Tournament the selection committee (which is dominated by the representatives from the majors ---usually coaches along with a few mid-majors reps usually conference officials, not coaches) is always given enough criteria available to pick from so there will always be at least one good reason that they can focus on in order to justify excluding almost any mid-major. This is important enough to repeat: to wit, the system provides the selection committee with enough criteria and with enough discretion and subjectivity on how to apply those criteria on a case by case basis that they can always find at least one reason to justify rejecting almost every good mid-major team----if is not SOS, then maybe RPI, or late season loses (such as in their conference tournament), or bad losses which is essentially any conference loss for a mid-major but not usually so for the majors, or lack of "good wins" (for which mid-majors have fewer opportunities to try for),etc, etc. They only need to find one negative to focus on in order to justify exclusion. It is a high $$$ stake game and the deck is stacked in favor of the big boys just as neatly in MBB as it in FB.

Obviously the majors are going to have more good teams than the mid-majors but the majors consist of about 100 of all the teams playing Division I BB yet they typically get around 80-85% of all the at-large invitations leaving about 15% (3-5 total invitations) to spread among roughly 200 or so mid-major teams and the majors do NOT have that kind of monopoly on "good teams".

Starting no later that February every year the conversation on these boards always turns to "is the MAC a two bid conference this year?"----and each year a significant number of people actually seem to believe is going to happen "this year" even though year after year after year it does NOT happen.

Each year I try to explain that the selection committee applies a secret, unspoken "Catch-22" sort of rule to the mid-majors. Namely (with apologies to Joseph Heller):

Only mid-majors who win their conference tournament qualify for an at-large bid. But of course those who win their conference tournament are automatic qualifiers
and don't need to be considered for an at-large but the rule is nevertheless consistent with the committee's objective. Namely to ensure that there are a massively disproportionately large number of major BB conference teams monopolizing those lucrative NCAA tourney slots that currently are worth about $1.5 million per each team per each game played, paid out over 6 years.

As with college football, men's collegiate basketball is no longer about creating a level field for intercollegiate sports competition, rather it is all about greed and creating entertainment extravaganzas that generate those big TV ratings that in turn generate all those big TV $$$$ that profit the power conferences and fuel the inequities that currently exist.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 01:15 AM by T-Town.)
01-06-2016 01:12 AM
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OUVan Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-06-2016 01:12 AM)T-Town Wrote:  You argument makes perfectly good sense and is almost surely the exact same argument the selection committee would use. But I am jaded enough and cynical enough to believe that with all those big bucks riding on the NCAA Tournament the selection committee (which is dominated by the representatives from the majors ---usually coaches along with a few mid-majors reps usually conference officials, not coaches) is always given enough criteria available to pick from so there will always be at least one good reason that they can focus on in order to justify excluding almost any mid-major. This is important enough to repeat: to wit, the system provides the selection committee with enough criteria and with enough discretion and subjectivity on how to apply those criteria on a case by case basis that they can always find at least one reason to justify rejecting almost every good mid-major team----if is not SOS, then maybe RPI, or late season loses (such as in their conference tournament), or bad losses which is essentially any conference loss for a mid-major but not usually so for the majors, or lack of "good wins" (for which mid-majors have fewer opportunities to try for),etc, etc. They only need to find one negative to focus on in order to justify exclusion. It is a high $$$ stake game and the deck is stacked in favor of the big boys just as neatly in MBB as it in FB.

Obviously the majors are going to have more good teams than the mid-majors but the majors consist of about 100 of all the teams playing Division I BB yet they typically get around 80-85% of all the at-large invitations leaving about 15% (3-5 total invitations) to spread among roughly 200 or so mid-major teams and the majors do NOT have that kind of monopoly on "good teams".

Starting no later that February every year the conversation on these boards always turns to "is the MAC a two bid conference this year?"----and each year a significant number of people actually seem to believe is going to happen "this year" even though year after year after year it does NOT happen.

Each year I try to explain that the selection committee applies a secret, unspoken "Catch-22" sort of rule to the mid-majors. Namely (with apologies to Joseph Heller):

Only mid-majors who win their conference tournament qualify for an at-large bid. But of course those who win their conference tournament are automatic qualifiers
and don't need to be considered for an at-large but the rule is nevertheless consistent with the committee's objective. Namely to ensure that there are a massively disproportionately large number of major BB conference teams monopolizing those lucrative NCAA tourney slots that currently are worth about $1.5 million per each team per each game played, paid out over 6 years.

As with college football, men's collegiate basketball is no longer about creating a level field for intercollegiate sports competition, rather it is all about greed and creating entertainment extravaganzas that generate those big TV ratings that in turn generate all those big TV $$$$ that profit the power conferences and fuel the inequities that currently exist.

Except mids are having unprecedented success in the tourney and worthy mids get at-large bids every year. The problem with the MAC is that we haven't had many great teams. When the conference has a good RPI it's because of good conference depth. The MVC has gotten multiple bids because they've had teams that have earned it. On average they put a lot more money into basketball than the MAC and it shows. Also they follow a scheduling guideline that the MAC tried a couple of years ago but quickly teams abandoned it. The OOC schedule for the league this season is atrocious. We've got teams scheduling 3 or 4 non-D1 opponents. If you want to remove any chance of getting an at-large do that. We need someone to step up and have a great team and lift the rest of the league up. Akron and Kent had teams that probably get at-larges but they won the tournament. At least this year we've gotten to the point where our bad teams aren't absolute anchors. But nobody looks to be a great team either.
01-06-2016 11:41 AM
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CMUprof Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Actually the committee is pretty diverse:

All are ADs with one conference exec., only 4 of 10 from P5 leagues.

NCAA Tournament selection committee

(01-06-2016 01:12 AM)T-Town Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 01:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The MAC was the only conference in the top 12 last year not to have an at-large bid. CMU was the MAC regular season champ and MACC runner-up but killed any chance for at-large consideration with a down right awful OOC schedule.

CMU's OOC schedule with RPI last season ('14-'15)-
W 127 Northwestern
W 274 Grand Canyon
W 279 McNeese St.
L 288 Bradley
W 291 Youngstown St
W 292 SIU Edwardsville
W 301 AR Pine Bluff
W 339 Maine

The MAC regular season champ played 1 team in OOC with an RPI better than #274, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MACC runner-up again this season with a similar problem, given how poor the SOS is of a lot of teams at the end of OOC play this year.

You argument makes perfectly good sense and is almost surely the exact same argument the selection committee would use. But I am jaded enough and cynical enough to believe that with all those big bucks riding on the NCAA Tournament the selection committee (which is dominated by the representatives from the majors ---usually coaches along with a few mid-majors reps usually conference officials, not coaches) is always given enough criteria available to pick from so there will always be at least one good reason that they can focus on in order to justify excluding almost any mid-major. This is important enough to repeat: to wit, the system provides the selection committee with enough criteria and with enough discretion and subjectivity on how to apply those criteria on a case by case basis that they can always find at least one reason to justify rejecting almost every good mid-major team----if is not SOS, then maybe RPI, or late season loses (such as in their conference tournament), or bad losses which is essentially any conference loss for a mid-major but not usually so for the majors, or lack of "good wins" (for which mid-majors have fewer opportunities to try for),etc, etc. They only need to find one negative to focus on in order to justify exclusion. It is a high $$$ stake game and the deck is stacked in favor of the big boys just as neatly in MBB as it in FB.

Obviously the majors are going to have more good teams than the mid-majors but the majors consist of about 100 of all the teams playing Division I BB yet they typically get around 80-85% of all the at-large invitations leaving about 15% (3-5 total invitations) to spread among roughly 200 or so mid-major teams and the majors do NOT have that kind of monopoly on "good teams".

Starting no later that February every year the conversation on these boards always turns to "is the MAC a two bid conference this year?"----and each year a significant number of people actually seem to believe is going to happen "this year" even though year after year after year it does NOT happen.

Each year I try to explain that the selection committee applies a secret, unspoken "Catch-22" sort of rule to the mid-majors. Namely (with apologies to Joseph Heller):

Only mid-majors who win their conference tournament qualify for an at-large bid. But of course those who win their conference tournament are automatic qualifiers
and don't need to be considered for an at-large but the rule is nevertheless consistent with the committee's objective. Namely to ensure that there are a massively disproportionately large number of major BB conference teams monopolizing those lucrative NCAA tourney slots that currently are worth about $1.5 million per each team per each game played, paid out over 6 years.

As with college football, men's collegiate basketball is no longer about creating a level field for intercollegiate sports competition, rather it is all about greed and creating entertainment extravaganzas that generate those big TV ratings that in turn generate all those big TV $$$$ that profit the power conferences and fuel the inequities that currently exist.
01-06-2016 12:26 PM
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MaddDawgz02 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-05-2016 01:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The MAC was the only conference in the top 12 last year not to have an at-large bid. CMU was the MAC regular season champ and MACC runner-up but killed any chance for at-large consideration with a down right awful OOC schedule.

CMU's OOC schedule with RPI last season ('14-'15)-
W 127 Northwestern
W 274 Grand Canyon
W 279 McNeese St.
L 288 Bradley
W 291 Youngstown St
W 292 SIU Edwardsville
W 301 AR Pine Bluff
W 339 Maine

The MAC regular season champ played 1 team in OOC with an RPI better than #274, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MACC runner-up again this season with a similar problem, given how poor the SOS is of a lot of teams at the end of OOC play this year.

I think its more than that though, the MAC has this label has a 1 bid conference, so I think the bids are handed out without looking at who really deserves them.
01-06-2016 12:46 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-06-2016 12:46 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  
(01-05-2016 01:42 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The MAC was the only conference in the top 12 last year not to have an at-large bid. CMU was the MAC regular season champ and MACC runner-up but killed any chance for at-large consideration with a down right awful OOC schedule.

CMU's OOC schedule with RPI last season ('14-'15)-
W 127 Northwestern
W 274 Grand Canyon
W 279 McNeese St.
L 288 Bradley
W 291 Youngstown St
W 292 SIU Edwardsville
W 301 AR Pine Bluff
W 339 Maine

The MAC regular season champ played 1 team in OOC with an RPI better than #274, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MACC runner-up again this season with a similar problem, given how poor the SOS is of a lot of teams at the end of OOC play this year.

I think its more than that though, the MAC has this label has a 1 bid conference, so I think the bids are handed out without looking at who really deserves them.

CMU was the 2nd best MAC team with an RPI of #70. There were 17 teams ranked higher than CMU that didn't receive an at-large bid either, including #29 Colorado State.

There is no conspiracy against the MAC.
01-06-2016 07:26 PM
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pennies4everybody Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
BSU up on UT by 21 with 2 min to go...
01-06-2016 08:52 PM
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emu79 Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
EMU blows CMU out of their own gym.
01-06-2016 09:02 PM
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pennies4everybody Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Cards win 87-69. Five in double figures, with Weber at 21, Kiapaway at 16, Davis at 13, Calhoun at 12, and Tyler at 10. 17/6 assist to turnover, winning the rebound battle, getting 10 steals and 5 blocks. Nice effort by the Cards. Remembering winning the first two last season and then ticking off 17 straight losses makes me not get too excited yet, but this was the best the team has played this year by a long shot...
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 10:57 PM by pennies4everybody.)
01-06-2016 09:03 PM
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H2Oville Rocket Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-06-2016 09:03 PM)pennies4everybody Wrote:  Cards win 87-69. Five in double figures, with Weber at 21, Kiapaway at 16, Davis at 13, Calhoun at 10, and Tyler at 10. 17/6 assist to turnover, winning the rebound battle, getting 10 steals and 5 blocks. Nice effort by the Cards. Remembering winning the first two last season and then ticking off 17 straight losses makes me not get too excited yet, but this was the best the team has played this year by a long shot...

I'm visiting family in Decatur and we can smell Toledo's performance clear up here.
01-06-2016 09:18 PM
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LongtimeFan Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Now is there anybody left who still questions whether Ball State will be competitive in the conference? Great defensive effort tonight to go along with outstanding shooting and every player contributing for the Cards. Point guard play, one of Coach Whitford's concerns this season, was stellar tonight. Smith and Davis had a combined 9 assists, 1 turnover, and 13 points.

The return game in Toledo on the last day of the regular season should be very interesting.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 09:35 PM by LongtimeFan.)
01-06-2016 09:33 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
(01-06-2016 09:33 PM)LongtimeFan Wrote:  Now is there anybody left who still questions whether Ball State will be competitive in the conference?

it's one home game. they looked good, but the jury is still out for me.
01-06-2016 09:47 PM
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RE: Basketball 1/3-1/9
Huskies defeated the Bobcats in DeKalb for the first time since 2006. NIU moves to 12-2 on the season.

80-69 Final
01-06-2016 10:15 PM
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