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Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
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YNot Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
(01-04-2016 12:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 12:44 PM)YNot Wrote:  Stupid and reckless decision to move the PLAYOFF bowls to New Year's Eve.

That is only if you purely look at TV ratings (majority of people on this thread), and don't account for attendance and travel, like the actual bowls do, and the playoff committee does as a result of their influence. There is a reason those bowls were adamant about not playing past new year's day. They have been through it with the BCS, and know how it affects them. Why do people overlook that

Looking at the data, I don't see any information that would say that the Orange, Sugar, or Fiesta bowls are worse off playing after NYD. Travel and attendance has more to do with who is playing in the game.

It still seems stupid and reckless to ignore the TV rating considerations and instead focus on a non-problem.

Personally, I think that Hancock, the P5 commissioners, and ESPN over-played their hand. They thought they could influence society to make the CFP part of the NYE; unfortunately, the market told them otherwise.

Orange Bowl attendance:

January 3, 2008 - 74K
January 1, 2009 - 57K
January 5, 2010 - 66K
January 3, 2011 - 65K
January 4, 2012 - 67K
January 1, 2013 - 71K
January 3, 2014 - 72K
December 31, 2014 - 58K
December 31, 2015 - 67K (CFP)

Sugar Bowl attendance:

January 1, 2008 - 74K
January 2, 2009 - 71K
January 1, 2010 - 65K
January 4, 2011 - 73K
January 3, 2012 - 64K
January 2, 2013 - 54K
January 2, 2014 - 70K
January 1, 2015 - 74K (CFP)
January 1, 2016 - 72K

Fiesta Bowl
January 2, 2008 - 70K
January 5, 2009 - 72K
January 4, 2010 - 73K
January 1, 2011 - 67K
January 2, 2012 - 69K
January 3, 2013 - 70K
December 31, 2014 - 66K
January 1, 2014 - 65K
January 1, 2016 - 71K
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2016 01:12 PM by YNot.)
01-04-2016 01:09 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
(01-04-2016 01:09 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 12:47 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 12:44 PM)YNot Wrote:  Stupid and reckless decision to move the PLAYOFF bowls to New Year's Eve.

That is only if you purely look at TV ratings (majority of people on this thread), and don't account for attendance and travel, like the actual bowls do, and the playoff committee does as a result of their influence. There is a reason those bowls were adamant about not playing past new year's day. They have been through it with the BCS, and know how it affects them. Why do people overlook that

Looking at the data, I don't see any information that would say that the Orange, Sugar, or Fiesta bowls are worse off playing after NYD. Travel and attendance has more to do with who is playing in the game.

It still seems stupid and reckless to ignore the TV rating considerations and instead focus on a non-problem.

The problem is, it is NOT under any circuamsrtances, a "non problem." It is a MAJOR problem and the only reason we even have a playoff to begin with. And you cannot look purely at attendance. Who is attending is more important than how many attend.

I say this a lot, but I don't think some people grasp this. To the bowls, the game day live gate is damn near irrelevant. Not really, as they get a good chunk of change for it, but these games are hosted by the local chamnber of commerce or tourism boards (or at least have some connection to it), and they exist PURELY to get thousands of people to travel to their city and spend money, at a time that hotels and tourist attractions everywhere else are mostly deserted. When those reports started coming back and hotel and travel receipts are way down, and the local impact is shrinking by the year, they have a problem. This is not a "non-problem." It is what allowed us to finally get a playoff.

If the Orange bowl could choose between 25,000 fans travelling in from Texas, and 75,000 Miami locals buying tickets, they would take the 25,000 and not think twice. Why do you think the Rose Bowl is so enthralled with the Big Ten? Their alliance with the Big Ten ensures that close to 40,000 people from the Midwest spend the holidays in Pasadena, and it pumps about $200 million into their economy. Hell of a lot more than the $10-$15 million they might pull in on game day.
THAT is why they have bowls, and THAT is why they are demanding their games be played at certain times, to ensure that gravy train is not screwed up. It is also why playoffs were fought against tooth and nail, until the realized the BCS threatened their business, with games played 8-10 days after Christmas, and with teams that don't bring a lot of fans. That is why the agreed to a playoff, in exchange for getting their traditional tie-ins back.

And it all comes down to protecting their games and making sure they are played at a time when people can travel there, and amongst teams who will bring the people to them.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2016 01:19 PM by adcorbett.)
01-04-2016 01:16 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
if all the games had been riveting games, and the 6 games as a whole were down by 13%, then espn may think it's a problem.

And I do think ESPN views this as a 6 game package, and not really just the 2 SF games.
01-04-2016 02:05 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
(01-04-2016 02:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And I do think ESPN views this as a 6 game package, and not really just the 2 SF games.

I don't think they do, since they all have separate TV deals. Come renegotiation time, I think the differences will matter. And they will have several year of data to use.
01-04-2016 02:13 PM
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Post: #105
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
(01-04-2016 02:13 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 02:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And I do think ESPN views this as a 6 game package, and not really just the 2 SF games.

I don't think they do, since they all have separate TV deals. Come renegotiation time, I think the differences will matter. And they will have several year of data to use.
The 3 access bowls all are on 1 contract.

I also think ESPN viewed having the chance for 4 times to have the playoffs on New Years Day with the Rose/Sugar- with all 4 times being on the actual NYD- as being worth everything else.

And even look at some of the years coming up-
2017- NYE is on a Saturday.
2018- NYD is Monday.
2019- NYE is on a Monday, with NYD on a Tuesday. A LOT more folks will be off work that day than we saw this year.
2020- NYE Tuesday. tough year
2021- NYD Friday
2022- NYE Friday- holiday for government employees
2023- NYE Saturday
2024- NYD Monday
2025- NYE Tuesday tough year
2026- NYE Wednesday tough year

So really of the 10 years left after this year- 3 are NYD SF games. 2 are NYE games where NYE is Saturday. 1 is NYE on a Friday when that's the holiday. 1 is NYE on a Monday when a lot of folks will just make it a 4 day weekend. Really only 2020, 2025, 2026 are tough years.
01-04-2016 02:33 PM
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Post: #106
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
(01-04-2016 02:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  if all the games had been riveting games, and the 6 games as a whole were down by 13%, then espn may think it's a problem.

And I do think ESPN views this as a 6 game package, and not really just the 2 SF games.

ESPN is being the good soldier here because they don't want to publicly rip their CFP partners. However, it's very clear that ESPN *REALLY* doesn't want these New Year's Eve playoff games. They openly lobbied to get the games changed to January 2nd this year. Dan Wetzel recently reported that when the powers that be first approached ESPN about forming the 4-team playoff, ESPN didn't even think that New Year's Eve playoff games were a consideration because it was such an obviously ludicrous TV ratings idea and then were shocked that the college leaders were even thinking about them, much less actually proceeding with them. They bucked up the money because college football is integral to ESPN, but they have *really* been hoping that the powers that be would come to their senses at some point.

So, ESPN is absolutely NOT looking at this as a 6-game package. Sure, they're going to spin it that way because they have one of the best PR machines in the business, but almost all of the value of what they're paying for the CFP is tied to the actual playoff games. If those playoff games aren't delivering the maximum number of viewers, then they're not getting a good ROI at all. The rest of the bowl games besides the Rose Bowl are filler programming. (See the non-NY6 Citrus Bowl getting a better rating than the Sugar Bowl later that night on New Year's Day itself.)
01-05-2016 11:04 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Playoff games/bowl ratings not good - games not competitive? How to fix?
I personally think the reason for this, as mentioned above, was the combination of "undesirable" teams and dates that caused the bowls to finally give in to a playoff, if it meant they got their traditional dates back, and their traditional teams back. The other bowls had already complained about games being pushed back to Jan 2, 3, and 4th for TV, which hampered their attractiveness for out of town fans (even if the game day attendance did not always suffer. 2011 changed all of that. That was the year the Rose Bowl, who's date and matchups were always protected and had not experienced the issues the other teams did, was forced contractually to take TCU (note TCU had a good turn out as far as I can tell, but that didn't matter to the Rose Bowl people). That was also the same year The Fiesta Bowl had to take UConn - this is not a shot at UConn, this is how the Fiesta Bowl people felt about it, and it was the lowest attended Fiesta Bowl in the BCS era until UCF/Baylor)- following the previous year where TCU, Boise, and Cincinnati were all in the BCS games (again the TCU/Boise game drew pretty well, and the two lowest attended Sugar Bowls in recent memory had Cincy's opponent Florida that day, so it probably wasn't their fault, but they get the blame).

After that happened, the bowls got together and decided to take back what they wanted, even if it meant giving into a playoff (or a plus one). But for that, they wanted not just their matchups back, but their dates. To me, looking in, and what they have said, that is what I see. That was the tradeoff to them for giving into a playoff. And they probably were not willing to negotiate that part, since such negotiations, is what allowed ESPN to move their games so many days past NYD in the first place.

Maybe I am missing something, but that is what I see.
01-05-2016 02:44 PM
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