(12-31-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's deal with the underlying reality instead of the result.

We should have a problem when our congressmen can be lobbied by foreign government and influenced to place foreign interests over our own.

That's the problem. It isn't made okay because it is an ally doing the influencing.

That type of behaviour is dangerous. I personally don't want a soul up there placing any foreign interest over our own. It's been going on too readily over the last several decades.

The issue is not the Iran deal, or Israel, it is foreign influence peddling and our congressman playing.

I'm for rooting out and exposing any person in government that would put foreign interests over our own, end of story.

The basic, and narrow minded, flaw in your argument is that foreign interests do not align with our own.

(12-31-2015 01:24 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's deal with the underlying reality instead of the result.

We should have a problem when our congressmen can be lobbied by foreign government and influenced to place foreign interests over our own.

That's the problem. It isn't made okay because it is an ally doing the influencing.

That type of behaviour is dangerous. I personally don't want a soul up there placing any foreign interest over our own. It's been going on too readily over the last several decades.

The issue is not the Iran deal, or Israel, it is foreign influence peddling and our congressman playing.

I'm for rooting out and exposing any person in government that would put foreign interests over our own, end of story.

The basic, and narrow minded, flaw in your argument is that foreign interests do not align with our own.

That's the equivalent of avering a legal conclusion in place of statements of fact.

I'm far more worried about the extent to which our government can be bought by anyone than I am by the fact that some of the anyones doing so happen to be foreign governments.

And what probably 99% of the people don't realize is that it's not congress where lobbyists do the majority of their heavy lifting. It's the myriad of federal agencies with their legions of unaccountable bureaucrats.

(12-31-2015 01:55 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 01:24 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's deal with the underlying reality instead of the result.

We should have a problem when our congressmen can be lobbied by foreign government and influenced to place foreign interests over our own.

That's the problem. It isn't made okay because it is an ally doing the influencing.

That type of behaviour is dangerous. I personally don't want a soul up there placing any foreign interest over our own. It's been going on too readily over the last several decades.

The issue is not the Iran deal, or Israel, it is foreign influence peddling and our congressman playing.

I'm for rooting out and exposing any person in government that would put foreign interests over our own, end of story.

The basic, and narrow minded, flaw in your argument is that foreign interests do not align with our own.

That's the equivalent of avering a legal conclusion in place of statements of fact.

Not really. The facts provided in the linked article do not support any accusation of treason. So by titling this thread in that way, you have abdicated any high ground of fact. You are indeed proffering opinion as fact.

You undoubtedly disagree with my assertion of the alignment of interests. That's also your opinion. But your opinion does not support a legal prosecution for treason. You may consider it treason but your recourse may only be made at the voting booth or in a protest assembly. Or on a board.

(12-31-2015 02:44 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 01:55 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 01:24 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's deal with the underlying reality instead of the result.

We should have a problem when our congressmen can be lobbied by foreign government and influenced to place foreign interests over our own.

That's the problem. It isn't made okay because it is an ally doing the influencing.

That type of behaviour is dangerous. I personally don't want a soul up there placing any foreign interest over our own. It's been going on too readily over the last several decades.

The issue is not the Iran deal, or Israel, it is foreign influence peddling and our congressman playing.

I'm for rooting out and exposing any person in government that would put foreign interests over our own, end of story.

The basic, and narrow minded, flaw in your argument is that foreign interests do not align with our own.

That's the equivalent of avering a legal conclusion in place of statements of fact.

Not really. The facts provided in the linked article do not support any accusation of treason. So by titling this thread in that way, you have abdicated any high ground of fact. You are indeed proffering opinion as fact.

You undoubtedly disagree with my assertion of the alignment of interests. That's also your opinion. But your opinion does not support a legal prosecution for treason. You may consider it treason but your recourse may only be made at the voting booth or in a protest assembly. Or on a board.

K

(12-31-2015 02:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  How can a foreign govt. tell a sitting congressman, "what will it take?". That's outright bribery.

That question can take on many meanings, and not all would qualify as bribery. For example, I can think of one innocuous response:

What will it take?

Turn public opinion against the agreement.

Obama under pressure as report reveals the NSA spied on Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu...and members of Congress
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...eport.html

(12-31-2015 09:23 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 02:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  How can a foreign govt. tell a sitting congressman, "what will it take?". That's outright bribery.

I did not see that in the article.

There was no vote on the idiotic Iran deal, so you can't bribe someone to vote this way or that way since Obama/Kerry did their own thing.

Pretty much my thinking as well. Tbh, I'm not sure what the problem is here at all aside from the initial spying on an ally. That part is sickening to me.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

(12-31-2015 12:33 AM)Niner National Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I have a serious problem with foreign governments influence peddling and Congressman playing the game.

If it was a democratic member of Congress talking to Iran or north korea, people would be losing their ****, but since it's israel, nobody will bat an eye because Israel can do no wrong.

Where to start.

Why make this partisan, since it is likely that Chuckie Schumer was involved.

Second equating Israel with NK/Iran shows a level of ignorance rarely seen on this board.

(12-31-2015 05:17 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 09:23 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 02:17 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  How can a foreign govt. tell a sitting congressman, "what will it take?". That's outright bribery.

I did not see that in the article.

There was no vote on the idiotic Iran deal, so you can't bribe someone to vote this way or that way since Obama/Kerry did their own thing.

Pretty much my thinking as well. Tbh, I'm not sure what the problem is here at all aside from the initial spying on an ally. That part is sickening to me.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

I disagree. We ought to be spying on foreign governments, both ally and adversary, not American citizens.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

I must have missed your outrage when Pelosi was slobbering all over Assad; you know, that guy that flaunts Obama's red line and lobs toxic chemicals at his own citizens.

(12-31-2015 12:19 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(12-31-2015 12:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

You ARE talking about the Obama administration violating the constitution by wire-tapping American citizens talking to Jewish-American organizations, right?

If you link an article, you really should read it.

Well, I guess now we have proof you can't think for yourself, as if we needed it.

Note that rather than challenging my argument, you simply insult me with nothing to back it up. That's a sign that you have no argument.

(12-31-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Let's deal with the underlying reality instead of the result.

We should have a problem when our congressmen can be lobbied by foreign government and influenced to place foreign interests over our own.

That's the problem. It isn't made okay because it is an ally doing the influencing.

That type of behaviour is dangerous. I personally don't want a soul up there placing any foreign interest over our own. It's been going on too readily over the last several decades.

The issue is not the Iran deal, or Israel, it is foreign influence peddling and our congressman playing.

I'm for rooting out and exposing any person in government that would put foreign interests over our own, end of story.

What evidence do you have that any foreign interests were put over "our" own? Put before this idiotic "deal" perhaps, but not above our national interests, only those wishing for some kind of a legacy issue since most of the rest of any legacy is in a shambles.

(01-01-2016 01:14 PM)wahoowa Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

I must have missed your outrage when Pelosi was slobbering all over Assad; you know, that guy that flaunts Obama's red line and lobs toxic chemicals at his own citizens.

Perhaps your recollection of the actual facts and events of that visit might be a tad off?
Pelosi to talk to Syria on behalf of Israel
Pelosi: My trip to Syria in 2007 was nothing like the GOP's Iran letter

Quote:The office of the House minority leader issued a scathing statement Wednesday night saying her meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar Assad was part of a bipartisan effort — conducted through the Bush administration — to encourage peace in the region, and accusing Republicans of launching a "desperate" defense of their Iran letter to mask criticisms coming from both sides of the aisle.

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

SO, Obama's ILLEGAL wiretapping of Congressional phones (an impeachable offense) and it's Congress that's the bad guy?

(01-01-2016 09:31 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

SO, Obama's ILLEGAL wiretapping of Congressional phones (an impeachable offense)...

What congressional phones were wiretapped? Yeah...thought so.

(01-01-2016 10:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 09:31 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

SO, Obama's ILLEGAL wiretapping of Congressional phones (an impeachable offense)...

What congressional phones were wiretapped? Yeah...thought so.

Are you serious with that post?

(01-01-2016 10:20 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 10:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 09:31 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

SO, Obama's ILLEGAL wiretapping of Congressional phones (an impeachable offense)...

What congressional phones were wiretapped? Yeah...thought so.

Are you serious with that post?

Nobody tapped congressional phones dude. Phone conversations happen between more than one person. They were listening to the other people who happened to call congresspersons.

Do I really need to explain this? Perhaps you should go binge The Wire.

For the love of God, read the ******* headline in the linked story!

(01-01-2016 10:24 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 10:20 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 10:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 09:31 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

SO, Obama's ILLEGAL wiretapping of Congressional phones (an impeachable offense)...

What congressional phones were wiretapped? Yeah...thought so.

Are you serious with that post?

Nobody tapped congressional phones dude. Phone conversations happen between more than one person. They were listening to the other people who happened to call congresspersons.

Your reliance on semantics is comic gold.

(01-01-2016 09:21 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(01-01-2016 01:14 PM)wahoowa Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 11:21 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Congressmen working with foreign government to undermine talks...

Sickening.

I must have missed your outrage when Pelosi was slobbering all over Assad; you know, that guy that flaunts Obama's red line and lobs toxic chemicals at his own citizens.

Perhaps your recollection of the actual facts and events of that visit might be a tad off?
Pelosi to talk to Syria on behalf of Israel
Pelosi: My trip to Syria in 2007 was nothing like the GOP's Iran letter

Quote:The office of the House minority leader issued a scathing statement Wednesday night saying her meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar Assad was part of a bipartisan effort — conducted through the Bush administration — to encourage peace in the region, and accusing Republicans of launching a "desperate" defense of their Iran letter to mask criticisms coming from both sides of the aisle.

Typical Tom, quoting Pelosi Press Releases as viable news sources.

Pelosi said "a bipartisan effort — conducted through the Bush administration". That's truly disingenuous and an outright lie.

Pelosi Meets Syrian President Despite Objections From Bush

And more from that fetid pie hole:

Quote:After a meeting with Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, Ms. Pelosi announced that she had delivered a message from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert

Quote:Only one problem: The Israeli prime minister entrusted Ms. Pelosi with no such message.

Pratfall in Damascus