Just thinking.... we have about 5-6 years before things really go insane IMO....

just look at this chart:
NCAA Tourney- (thru 2023-24 season)
Pac 12 TV contract(thru 2023-24 season)
SEC CBS contract(thru 2023-24 season)
Big 12 GOR (thru 2024-25 season)(and TV contract)
Big East TV contract (thru 2024-25 season)
College Football Playoff (thru 2025-26 season)
ACC GOR (thru 2026-27 season)(and TV contract)
also, if Big Ten does a 10 year deal, that would be over after 2026-27 season)

IMO the big stuff would be the NCAA tournament and then also 2 pretty big benchmarks in Pac 12 deal along with the SEC tier 1 deal.

So I think we have about 6-7 more years of relative peace before all hell breaks out. By end of 2022, things are going to start going insane IMO.

I could see the biggest leagues (top 50% of the leagues or so) breaking away with a basketball championship.

They could throw a bone to the lower tiered leagues (about 15-18 of them) with 4 slots a year which they divide up the units among all the lower leagues.

the basketball is going to be huge. Right now, it's the only thing that kept us away from a P5 separation. It'll be fascinating to see what happens.

One way to force the hands of FCS and non-football schools is this. All football playing members break away from the non-football schools. Break up all the hybrid conferences like the Sun Belt, CAA, MVC, Southern, Southland and so forth. This could force Georgetown and Villanova to get serious about their football program, or drop the sport completely, and lose the chance to play against schools like Oklahoma, Notre Dame, UConn and so forth. Would this get D1 schools without football add the sport to stay with the big boys? That is what the Big West schools are thinking about right now. Should they add football to be FBS level? This could move Hawaii football to the Big West, add Sacramento State as all sports, and either add Azusa Pacific, Humboldt State, East Bay State or Cal-San Diego, the latter 2 mentioned about adding football. Hawaii-West Oahu is in a testing stage to be part of the NCAA as they are adding sports at D2 level, and mentioned in adding football.

(12-28-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the basketball is going to be huge. Right now, it's the only thing that kept us away from a P5 separation. It'll be fascinating to see what happens.

I agree.
There was talk before about upping the requirements to be D1. Perhaps that may come up in 2020 which is a couple of years before the NCCA tourney is renewed for TV.
I think I can see the P5 actually moving away with some other leagues IF they D1 requirements aren't increased.
I do believe the D1 requirements are bit low to be at the highest level even without football.

(12-29-2015 09:53 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the basketball is going to be huge. Right now, it's the only thing that kept us away from a P5 separation. It'll be fascinating to see what happens.

I agree.
There was talk before about upping the requirements to be D1. Perhaps that may come up in 2020 which is a couple of years before the NCCA tourney is renewed for TV.
I think I can see the P5 actually moving away with some other leagues IF they D1 requirements aren't increased.
I do believe the D1 requirements are bit low to be at the highest level even without football.

There are some D2 schools that deserves to be at D1 level, but they are being blocked by the snobs in conferences who do not have football. Take a look at the MVC? The basketball schools are only interested in inviting schools that do not have football. The football members want the Dakota schools and so forth in the conference. That is why you are hearing talks about the MVFC do a football only merger with the WAC a few years ago, and then Northern IOWA AD tweeted FBS aspiration, and then Missouri State released a media report that they are doing upgrades on their stadium. At the same time, reports of Wichita State could start a club team, but was put on hold since there seems to be plans of something bigger down the road, and boom this year that they could be starting football to be in FBS. As I see it, the three FCS conferences that have schools that are not happy with the basketball schools are MVC, Southern Conference and CAA. Southern Conference is turning more into a private school conference. All they need to do is shed all the Public schools, and invite all privates who fit in their image.
The CAA football schools wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as all sports. Hofstra blocked them from joining.
MVC hurt themselves by inviting Illinois-Chicago who have proved nothing on paper, but the 4 Dakota schools have in different sports. North Dakota State and South Dakota State have become very strong basketball power houses in the Summit. Adding them into MVC would have boasted the basketball product. The point is that these conferences in FCS are turning into another Big East that is about to explode.

(12-29-2015 04:13 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  One way to force the hands of FCS and non-football schools is this. All football playing members break away from the non-football schools. Break up all the hybrid conferences like the Sun Belt, CAA, MVC, Southern, Southland and so forth. This could force Georgetown and Villanova to get serious about their football program, or drop the sport completely, and lose the chance to play against schools like Oklahoma, Notre Dame, UConn and so forth. Would this get D1 schools without football add the sport to stay with the big boys? That is what the Big West schools are thinking about right now. Should they add football to be FBS level? This could move Hawaii football to the Big West, add Sacramento State as all sports, and either add Azusa Pacific, Humboldt State, East Bay State or Cal-San Diego, the latter 2 mentioned about adding football. Hawaii-West Oahu is in a testing stage to be part of the NCAA as they are adding sports at D2 level, and mentioned in adding football.

Why would they agree to this? The Big Ten won't because it has John Hopkins as a member in lacrosse, Florida has it's woman lacrosse team in the big east as well as a few AAC teams. None of these conferences would EVER agree to this. There is no need to force these schools to do anything at the expense of their own non revenue sports programs.

(12-28-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the basketball is going to be huge. Right now, it's the only thing that kept us away from a P5 separation. It'll be fascinating to see what happens.

They wouldn't be foolish enough to break away from the rest of the schools. They can stack the odds in their favor more by, say, seeking to eliminate auto-bids or reduce them but they'd be foolish to move away from the NCAA or the other D-I schools because the unknown schools helped popularize the NCAA Tourney even if the ratings gradually improve as things move on (e.g. because there are fewer games and people aren't at work and can watch every game in primetime or the weekend).

(12-28-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the basketball is going to be huge. Right now, it's the only thing that kept us away from a P5 separation. It'll be fascinating to see what happens.

I just don't see how a P5 separation gains anything for those conferences.

They get their football money from the CFP, TV contracts and bowl games. None of those have anything to do with the NCAA. And the CFP itself is half owned by the G5. That isn't changing.


All it really does is destroy March Madness and shift a huge burden of rule enforcement and post-season organization from the NCAA onto the P5.

(12-28-2015 01:00 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I could see the biggest leagues (top 50% of the leagues or so) breaking away with a basketball championship.

They could throw a bone to the lower tiered leagues (about 15-18 of them) with 4 slots a year which they divide up the units among all the lower leagues.

The NCAA itself is the biggest drain on March Madness money. The tournament could be "reformed" without leaving the NCAA, if the money distribution was changed to give all the money to the participating teams/conferences and none to the NCAA itself.

Change the way the NCAA is financed. Charge each NCAA school annual "dues" that are sufficient to cover the cost of administration for their division. For example, if the total annual cost of administering Division III is X dollars, and there are 450 Division III schools, then the annual dues for each D-III school would be X/450. Do the same for Division II and for Division I.

After they do that, then all of the March Madness money gets distributed back to participating schools and conferences. Each conference gets a share for each game in the tournament played by one of its teams, and each share is much larger than it is now because the NCAA isn't draining away TV money for itself. Maybe expand the tournament to 80 teams, 34 autobids and 46 at-large teams, which would result in more money being paid out to multi-bid conferences.

(12-29-2015 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 01:00 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I could see the biggest leagues (top 50% of the leagues or so) breaking away with a basketball championship.

They could throw a bone to the lower tiered leagues (about 15-18 of them) with 4 slots a year which they divide up the units among all the lower leagues.

The NCAA itself is the biggest drain on March Madness money. The tournament could be "reformed" without leaving the NCAA, if the money distribution was changed to give all the money to the participating teams/conferences and none to the NCAA itself.

Change the way the NCAA is financed. Charge each NCAA school annual "dues" that are sufficient to cover the cost of administration for their division. For example, if the total annual cost of administering Division III is X dollars, and there are 450 Division III schools, then the annual dues for each D-III school would be X/450. Do the same for Division II and for Division I.

After they do that, then all of the March Madness money gets distributed back to participating schools and conferences. Each conference gets a share for each game in the tournament played by one of its teams, and each share is much larger than it is now because the NCAA isn't draining away TV money for itself. Maybe expand the tournament to 80 teams, 34 autobids and 46 at-large teams, which would result in more money being paid out to multi-bid conferences.

If it's that big, then they should give an autobid to every regular season winner. And get rid of the NIT.


As far as your "dues" statement: I don't know for a fact if March Madness funds the total costs of the NCAA for all divisions. Probably. But let's say it does. So now you're asking all DIII and DII schools, which make no or very little money on varsity athletics, to pay the NCAA directly.

None of them are going to vote for that.

What college sports has become is sickening.....

(12-29-2015 01:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They wouldn't be foolish enough to break away from the rest of the schools. They can stack the odds in their favor more by, say, seeking to eliminate auto-bids or reduce them but they'd be foolish to move away from the NCAA or the other D-I schools because the unknown schools helped popularize the NCAA Tourney even if the ratings gradually improve as things move on (e.g. because there are fewer games and people aren't at work and can watch every game in primetime or the weekend).

To add to this, they could get rid of auto-bids and guarantee that all conference champions (regular and auto) can go to an expanded NIT, as they do now. Do that and the NCAA's are suddenly flooded with major conference schools.

(12-29-2015 01:57 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They wouldn't be foolish enough to break away from the rest of the schools. They can stack the odds in their favor more by, say, seeking to eliminate auto-bids or reduce them but they'd be foolish to move away from the NCAA or the other D-I schools because the unknown schools helped popularize the NCAA Tourney even if the ratings gradually improve as things move on (e.g. because there are fewer games and people aren't at work and can watch every game in primetime or the weekend).

To add to this, they could get rid of auto-bids and guarantee that all conference champions (regular and auto) can go to an expanded NIT, as they do now. Do that and the NCAA's are suddenly flooded with major conference schools.

Why not just make it one big bracket, in March Madness. Then you get two weekends of Madness, where everyone actually cares, before it starts tapering off into the big schools.

(12-29-2015 01:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 01:00 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I could see the biggest leagues (top 50% of the leagues or so) breaking away with a basketball championship.

They could throw a bone to the lower tiered leagues (about 15-18 of them) with 4 slots a year which they divide up the units among all the lower leagues.

The NCAA itself is the biggest drain on March Madness money. The tournament could be "reformed" without leaving the NCAA, if the money distribution was changed to give all the money to the participating teams/conferences and none to the NCAA itself.

Change the way the NCAA is financed. Charge each NCAA school annual "dues" that are sufficient to cover the cost of administration for their division. For example, if the total annual cost of administering Division III is X dollars, and there are 450 Division III schools, then the annual dues for each D-III school would be X/450. Do the same for Division II and for Division I.

After they do that, then all of the March Madness money gets distributed back to participating schools and conferences. Each conference gets a share for each game in the tournament played by one of its teams, and each share is much larger than it is now because the NCAA isn't draining away TV money for itself. Maybe expand the tournament to 80 teams, 34 autobids and 46 at-large teams, which would result in more money being paid out to multi-bid conferences.

If it's that big, then they should give an autobid to every regular season winner. And get rid of the NIT.


As far as your "dues" statement: I don't know for a fact if March Madness funds the total costs of the NCAA for all divisions. Probably. But let's say it does. So now you're asking all DIII and DII schools, which make no or very little money on varsity athletics, to pay the NCAA directly.

None of them are going to vote for that.

Yes. The March Madness funds a majority of the costs for D2 and D3 also.
I do like Wedges idea about funding the D2 and D3 levels. It could be cheaper for some of them. Just look at the NAIA. The dues are a bit cheaper compared to D2 and D3 levels but they are still able to fulfill the admin cost of the organization and the championships they sponsor.

(12-29-2015 01:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 01:00 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I could see the biggest leagues (top 50% of the leagues or so) breaking away with a basketball championship.

They could throw a bone to the lower tiered leagues (about 15-18 of them) with 4 slots a year which they divide up the units among all the lower leagues.

The NCAA itself is the biggest drain on March Madness money. The tournament could be "reformed" without leaving the NCAA, if the money distribution was changed to give all the money to the participating teams/conferences and none to the NCAA itself.

Change the way the NCAA is financed. Charge each NCAA school annual "dues" that are sufficient to cover the cost of administration for their division. For example, if the total annual cost of administering Division III is X dollars, and there are 450 Division III schools, then the annual dues for each D-III school would be X/450. Do the same for Division II and for Division I.

After they do that, then all of the March Madness money gets distributed back to participating schools and conferences. Each conference gets a share for each game in the tournament played by one of its teams, and each share is much larger than it is now because the NCAA isn't draining away TV money for itself. Maybe expand the tournament to 80 teams, 34 autobids and 46 at-large teams, which would result in more money being paid out to multi-bid conferences.

If it's that big, then they should give an autobid to every regular season winner. And get rid of the NIT.


As far as your "dues" statement: I don't know for a fact if March Madness funds the total costs of the NCAA for all divisions. Probably. But let's say it does. So now you're asking all DIII and DII schools, which make no or very little money on varsity athletics, to pay the NCAA directly.

None of them are going to vote for that.

Yes, especially if they are not receiving money in return back from the NCAA. If that's the case, then D11 and D111 should break away and create their own sanctioning body. But that would also mean less revenue. He has a point about the NCAA being the biggest drain on revenue though. I don't know how it works out, but I know its the big leagues P Fives, BE and American, Atltantic10 etc,,,that have the name brands that create almost all of the tv demand and revenue that the NCAA controls. Without those leagues the NCAA would be nothing. Without the NCAA, those big name teams would still be around.

(12-29-2015 02:03 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:45 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 01:00 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I could see the biggest leagues (top 50% of the leagues or so) breaking away with a basketball championship.

They could throw a bone to the lower tiered leagues (about 15-18 of them) with 4 slots a year which they divide up the units among all the lower leagues.

The NCAA itself is the biggest drain on March Madness money. The tournament could be "reformed" without leaving the NCAA, if the money distribution was changed to give all the money to the participating teams/conferences and none to the NCAA itself.

Change the way the NCAA is financed. Charge each NCAA school annual "dues" that are sufficient to cover the cost of administration for their division. For example, if the total annual cost of administering Division III is X dollars, and there are 450 Division III schools, then the annual dues for each D-III school would be X/450. Do the same for Division II and for Division I.

After they do that, then all of the March Madness money gets distributed back to participating schools and conferences. Each conference gets a share for each game in the tournament played by one of its teams, and each share is much larger than it is now because the NCAA isn't draining away TV money for itself. Maybe expand the tournament to 80 teams, 34 autobids and 46 at-large teams, which would result in more money being paid out to multi-bid conferences.

If it's that big, then they should give an autobid to every regular season winner. And get rid of the NIT.


As far as your "dues" statement: I don't know for a fact if March Madness funds the total costs of the NCAA for all divisions. Probably. But let's say it does. So now you're asking all DIII and DII schools, which make no or very little money on varsity athletics, to pay the NCAA directly.

None of them are going to vote for that.

Yes. The March Madness funds a majority of the costs for D2 and D3 also.
I do like Wedges idea about funding the D2 and D3 levels. It could be cheaper for some of them. Just look at the NAIA. The dues are a bit cheaper compared to D2 and D3 levels but they are still able to fulfill the admin cost of the organization and the championships they sponsor.

Cheaper for DII and DIII teams? How would it be cheaper than paying nothing?

(12-29-2015 02:03 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:57 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They wouldn't be foolish enough to break away from the rest of the schools. They can stack the odds in their favor more by, say, seeking to eliminate auto-bids or reduce them but they'd be foolish to move away from the NCAA or the other D-I schools because the unknown schools helped popularize the NCAA Tourney even if the ratings gradually improve as things move on (e.g. because there are fewer games and people aren't at work and can watch every game in primetime or the weekend).

To add to this, they could get rid of auto-bids and guarantee that all conference champions (regular and auto) can go to an expanded NIT, as they do now. Do that and the NCAA's are suddenly flooded with major conference schools.

Why not just make it one big bracket, in March Madness. Then you get two weekends of Madness, where everyone actually cares, before it starts tapering off into the big schools.

I'm speaking to the interest of the big schools, not everyone else.

(12-29-2015 01:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 01:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  the basketball is going to be huge. Right now, it's the only thing that kept us away from a P5 separation. It'll be fascinating to see what happens.

They wouldn't be foolish enough to break away from the rest of the schools. They can stack the odds in their favor more by, say, seeking to eliminate auto-bids or reduce them but they'd be foolish to move away from the NCAA or the other D-I schools because the unknown schools helped popularize the NCAA Tourney even if the ratings gradually improve as things move on (e.g. because there are fewer games and people aren't at work and can watch every game in primetime or the weekend).

This is my view as well. The brackets are the single most effective and best free advertising any entity has ever gotten for any product or business. You don't tamper with that. And I personally believe, and ratings mostly back it up, the david vs. Goliath matchups in the first few rounds are the biggest draws of those brackets (they are the mot unpredictable, and what make brackets so wildly differ from one person to another), and are far more valuable than a Goliath vs. a sunken goliath matchups (i.e. top power conference team vs power conference team with 0.500 record or worse, what a pure power conference tourney would look like). A breakaway may increase the power conference cut of the pie, but it will vastly shrink the size the pie could be.

If you destroy the brackets (and I believe the lack of underdog, mid major, and small conference teams will make the brackets far less popular, as would expanding the tourney), the NCAA tournament loses a lot of the appeal it has to people who do not watch college basketball any other time, which is more than half of the people who watch it now.

(12-29-2015 02:03 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:57 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  They wouldn't be foolish enough to break away from the rest of the schools. They can stack the odds in their favor more by, say, seeking to eliminate auto-bids or reduce them but they'd be foolish to move away from the NCAA or the other D-I schools because the unknown schools helped popularize the NCAA Tourney even if the ratings gradually improve as things move on (e.g. because there are fewer games and people aren't at work and can watch every game in primetime or the weekend).

To add to this, they could get rid of auto-bids and guarantee that all conference champions (regular and auto) can go to an expanded NIT, as they do now. Do that and the NCAA's are suddenly flooded with major conference schools.

Why not just make it one big bracket, in March Madness. Then you get two weekends of Madness, where everyone actually cares, before it starts tapering off into the big schools.

You more or less get that when you add in the conference tournaments. Essentially every team (other than Ivy league teams who don't have a tourney) have a chance to win 9 games in a row (may be 10 depending on the size of the conference, or 11 if a playing game). and win the national championship. In theory anyway.