it cracks me up how much you hate Bowden. he's been gone 8 years. get over it, psycho. his players are in their 30's now. lol try to forgive the guy. you are really a FSU fan anyway, just live closer to the Clemson stadium.

if we judge Bowden on beating SC and FSU alone, he's the best Clemson coach ever. :)

that bowl win over Tenn was sweet too, dominated them.

(12-28-2015 08:05 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  it cracks me up how much you hate Bowden. he's been gone 8 years. get over it, psycho. his players are in their 30's now. lol

Nice attack. YOu post a thread about how great Bowden was, and yet bristle when others do not agree with you.

For the record, I was against the Swinney hire. I thought it was a risky move when we needed someone with experience. My wish was that we would hire Patterson from TCU. Word was he was willing to come, but we would not pay the money he wanted.

However, unlike you in your stances on this board, I am willing to admit that I was completely wrong. There is not another coach in college football I would rather have at Clemson. He changed the culture of the program. He is a perfect fit for Clemson.

lol i'm not anti-Dabo.

I liked Bowden too though. I started the thread b/c ppl like you were always ranting about Bowden. Bowden needs some love.

i haven't been wrong about anything. For example, those Virginia Tech teams that won 11 or 12 games every season from 2004 to 2011 were good ball clubs. Kind of weird a Va Tech 'fan' actually disagrees with me on that.

reminds me of how some so called 'Clemson fans' blew a gasket when I pointed out accurately Clemson has a winning record against FSU the past 13 years aka the modern era.

Dabo will be a perfect fit until he has a couple of bad to medicore seasons. then he's on the hot seat even though he is the exact same coach.

(12-28-2015 08:23 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  lol i'm not anti-Dabo.

I liked Bowden too though. I started the thread b/c ppl like you were always ranting about Bowden. Bowden needs some love.

i haven't been wrong about anything. For example, those Virginia Tech teams that won 11 or 12 games every season from 2004 to 2011 were good ball clubs. Kind of weird a Va Tech 'fan' actually disagrees with me on that.

reminds me of how some so called 'Clemson fans' blew a gasket when I pointed out accurately Clemson has a winning record against FSU the past 13 years aka the modern era.

Dabo will be a perfect fit until he has a couple of bad to medicore seasons. then he's on the hot seat even though he is the exact same coach.

So called Clemson fans. That is the thing you are not getting. You do not get the right to decide who are or are not true fans. I love having FSU in the ACC; I think it is our most important conference rival. I do think some of their fans are arrogant, but the same can be said of some of our fans.

The reason people challenge you on your FSU stance is because it is disconnected from reality. Throughout the 90s, the ACC was known as FSU and the seven dwarfs. Their feat of 14 (Ithink) years finishing in the top 4 will likely never be matched. They have tied Clemson's record of ACC championships in only about 25 years (?). Also, the last 13 years is such a weird number to choose, excepting the fact it gives the result you want. Why not use numbers most people do, such as the last five years, or the last 10 years, or since they joined the ACC? I'll so it for you. Over the last 5 years, FSU leads 3-2. Over the last 10 years, FSU and Clemson are tied at 5-5. Since joining the ACC they lead 17-7.

As for why you chose the last 13 years as your cutoff point, it is because FSU won 11 in a row right before that.

To be fair, they also came in the ACC at the same time Clemson was deemphasizing big-time football because of the Danny Ford years (Bowden had to pull the Punt rooskie to keep from being 0-2 against Ford), and had virtually no challenge from us for a long time. Still doesn't change the fact that, for many years, you had to get through Tally to win the ACC.

Now, it is more even between Clemson and FSU, but I still think they have a bit of an edge on us going forward. For the near future, it should be FSU/Clemson as ACC champs. It will be interesting to see how other programs develop under new coaching.

I also pretty much hate UNC as well, and think they got away with the most far-reaching and lengthiest cheating scandal in the history of the NCAA, all while presenting themselves as an ivory tower of academic integrity. However, that doesn't stop me from giving their football team props for a very solid season. The job their new DC did with their defense was pretty amazing to see.

(12-28-2015 08:23 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  lol i'm not anti-Dabo.

I liked Bowden too though. I started the thread b/c ppl like you were always ranting about Bowden. Bowden needs some love.

i haven't been wrong about anything. For example, those Virginia Tech teams that won 11 or 12 games every season from 2004 to 2011 were good ball clubs. Kind of weird a Va Tech 'fan' actually disagrees with me on that.

reminds me of how some so called 'Clemson fans' blew a gasket when I pointed out accurately Clemson has a winning record against FSU the past 13 years aka the modern era.

Dabo will be a perfect fit until he has a couple of bad to medicore seasons. then he's on the hot seat even though he is the exact same coach.

I do not think anyone said those VT clubs were not good teams. What people have been saying is that they were not elite teams, as evidenced by not being able to win the high-profile OOC games.

i use 13 years as the cutoff point b/c obviously Clemson was not beating FSU prior to that. It is the first year Clemson beat them and after. What happened back in the 90's doesn't have anything to do with what's going on now anyway. Ever since conference expansion, FSU hasn't won as much and I expect that trend to continue.

there are a lot of 'elite' teams that lose games. If Oklahoma wins it this year, they will be considered an 'elite' team even though they lost to a really bad no good horrible Texas team on a neutral field. It is stupid to say those Va Tech teams were 'not elite' if they lost one or two games to other really good teams. You'd have to look at who they lost to. UNC isn't elite this year but many of you act like that team is unbeliveably good.

what is weird is you are so worried that FSU isn't being respected enough. poor FSU, if somebody doesn't gush over their record in the 90s or describe their current program as a 'juggernaut', he is worse than Hitler.

That is why I think you are a FSU fan or a sidewalk fan who really roots for both FSU and Clemson.

A conference that was routinely ranked around the Big East, & occasionally behind it, wasn't a tough conference. Neither had a title contender & their champs just wanted to make the top 20. Compared to the Sun Belt & MAC they were tough conferences but they were the last among the power conferences. Today the BE is gone & the best teams in the ACC are playing for national championships! The ACC of the 2000's may have been deep in mediocrity but today's ACC has national title contenders & is on par with other power conferences.

CV did you not notice how NC did not drop in the committees final poll after losing to Clemson? Why do you think that is? Because the Heels are an awful team like you think? Apparently the committee doesn't agree with you.

When Louisville took on the ACC champion in the Orange Bowl Wake Forest was a good team but not nearly as great as an ACC champion should be. How did that bowl game rank among the other BCS bowls that year?

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they aren't a Clemson fan or a Clemson hater. I for one will be routing for Clemson to win the title this year, but I guess as you say I'm still a hater. Lol

college football was really down this year across the country and all conferences, as I've said before. Only way UNC could be ranked no. 10, with not one top 25 win and a bad loss.

you can look at UNC's schedule and see it wasn't tough and they were one of only 3 teams to lose to SC. Their best win is either Pitt or Miami. To argue this team is better than those Va Tech teams and other good teams in the 00's is Soviet style propaganda.

I looked at Va Tech's 2005 season, they lost to USC OOC who i believe won the national title, then they had a 3 point overtime loss to an AUburn team in the top 5 in their bowl game. But this UNC team and this years FSU team who lost to worst G Tech team in 20 years are better?



i don't care if you root for CLemson or not. I believe you actually said that you expect CLemson to lose to Okla.

(12-29-2015 12:17 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  college football was really down this year across the country and all conferences, as I've said before. Only way UNC could be ranked no. 10, with not one top 25 win and a bad loss.

you can look at UNC's schedule and see it wasn't tough and they were one of only 3 teams to lose to SC. Their best win is either Pitt or Miami. To argue this team is better than those Va Tech teams and other good teams in the 00's is Soviet style propaganda.

I looked at Va Tech's 2005 season, they lost to USC OOC who i believe won the national title, then they had a 3 point overtime loss to an AUburn team in the top 5 in their bowl game. But this UNC team and this years FSU team who lost to worst G Tech team in 20 years are better?


i don't care if you root for CLemson or not. I believe you actually said that you expect CLemson to lose to Okla.

If you really looked it up, get the year right.

(12-29-2015 12:17 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  college football was really down this year across the country and all conferences, as I've said before. Only way UNC could be ranked no. 10, with not one top 25 win and a bad loss.

you can look at UNC's schedule and see it wasn't tough and they were one of only 3 teams to lose to SC. Their best win is either Pitt or Miami. To argue this team is better than those Va Tech teams and other good teams in the 00's is Soviet style propaganda.

I looked at Va Tech's 2005 season, they lost to USC OOC who i believe won the national title, then they had a 3 point overtime loss to an AUburn team in the top 5 in their bowl game. But this UNC team and this years FSU team who lost to worst G Tech team in 20 years are better?



i don't care if you root for CLemson or not. I believe you actually said that you expect CLemson to lose to Okla.

When did I ever say that Clemson would lose to Oklahoma? I did say that IF Clemson wasn't prepared for NC that the Heels could pull off the upset. Why? Because NC is a good team as they showed during the ACCCG. NC SOS is around Iowa & Ohio State but I guess they aren't good teams either. Lol

UNC didn't show up as much as you say they did in the Clemson. their defense got murdered, their RB was mostly shut down, the QB did not have a good game,e tc.


i don't think Iowa or OSU were that good. I've said numerous times that I don't think college footbball was good this year across the country. SOmehow that doesn't sink in.

(12-28-2015 06:01 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 05:59 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  North Carolina romped on a weak schedule this year. The writer at Tiptop25.com sums it up quite neatly. Plus, they lost to a terrible SCAR team.

Really Army guy? Sitting at home on the couch. Please.

The team I root for should have no bearing on your view of my analysis.

(12-28-2015 08:56 AM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  So in NINE years at one of the best football schools in the ACC, Bowden NEVER won more than 10 games in a season. Dabo Swinney is coaching his FIFTH consecutive 10 win season. Bowden never finished the season ranked in the top 10 in NINE years. That's just not good enough. Bowden was a decent coach, but it's obvious he couldn't get Clemson over the hump.

Truth

Clemson didn't get going again until CLemson beat FSU and Bowden was the first Clemson coach to beat FSU in conference and then did it several other times and many of these FSU teams were ranked.

I was at Clemson in late 90's when Tommy West was still there. Those were some dark days. Bowden changed the direction of the program.

I wanted to post this because for me Bowden will always be the Seminole Slayer and I think that is is probable if he had not come to Clemson, the program would still be like it was in the 90s. Yet I've seen so many Clemson fans dump on him. And as I've pointed out, he had some tough breaks like that Matt Ryan bomb touchdown in closing seconds of the game that kept CLem out of the ACC title game in 2007. Very few college QBs are as good as Matt Ryan was.

A program has to be consistently above average for a decade or so before it can realistically expect to win a title. Clemson was def. consistently above average when Bowden was there and won more games than most other programs in the country. I'm not as greedy as some fans are.