(12-26-2015 02:19 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Just curious why you didn't tell us about The ACC and The SEC.

Sorry. Here's the Paul Harvey rest of the story:

SEC - everyone except Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St
ACC - everyone except Wake

Other G5 - UAB, Georgia St, FIU, UMass, Buffalo, North Texas

the Carnegie Foundation has always made it abundantly clear that their classifications are not a ranking including going so far as specifically stating they are not a ranking

they have further explained why they are not rankings and why they should not be used rankings and they have time and again changed their methodology and terms to discourage the use of the classifications as rankings or as implying any type of rank or educational similarity or dissimilarity between universities in the same classification

they have further explained that some universities insist on ignoring that and those universities are wrong for doing so and they have also specifically stated that quantity of research is just that quantity with no factors considered for quality or relevance of research

and with these new classifications they must have changed something up and or they have some universities in the wrong classification because Wake Forest does over $176 million in total research and development, OkState $126, Auburn $142, UT Dallas $99.7, Alabama $53, Mississippi and Med Center $109 and Mississippi State $209 while north Texas state does $44 yet they have north Texas state in the "highest".....and it is a much larger overall university and more than likely has more overall faculty than most of those others listed

UTA is $89 and UTEP $79 and UTSA is $47 as well all higher with smaller enrollments and similar other profiles

UTD especially would have more recognized faculty members as well

so these classifications have been changed from the past somehow (and it would have to be somewhat dramatic) or there are some schools in the wrong classifications

also in the case of the UT System schools they all do significantly more competitively awarded research vs north Texas state as classified by the THECB

UC schools all in there. Not surprised at all. We are among the nation's elite

(12-26-2015 09:22 PM)billings Wrote:  all about med and vet schools. those draw big research dollars. almost gotta have one to make the top list with some exceptions

Texas doesn't have either (although they are starting a med school). Houston, North Texas and Rice don't have either.

It certainly helps, but is not essential.

Georgia Tech is very high in research and don't have either. Of course, they have a lot of engineering research.

(12-27-2015 12:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  Georgia Tech is very high in research and don't have either. Of course, they have a lot of engineering research.

Neither does Georgia State.

(12-26-2015 09:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  An FBS Big Sky would have three highest (Mont St, NDSU, UCDavis) and several higher research (UND, USD, SDSU, UMont, Idaho, Portland St). Idaho St and N Ariz would make eight higher research schools if the chose to go. Sac St, Cal Poly, and E Wash are the other schools make plans for FBS IMHO.

Idaho AD has been quoted as saying the Big Sky research schools have plans to form their own division.

You could throw New Mexico State into that category.

Wichita State showed up as well.

To go back to Boise State. I read somewhere that they are the leaders in the northwest of all colleges and universities in research of predatory birds. I think what comes down with different schools are what they are unique from each other on what their research is on about.

(12-27-2015 04:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 09:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  An FBS Big Sky would have three highest (Mont St, NDSU, UCDavis) and several higher research (UND, USD, SDSU, UMont, Idaho, Portland St). Idaho St and N Ariz would make eight higher research schools if the chose to go. Sac St, Cal Poly, and E Wash are the other schools make plans for FBS IMHO.

Idaho AD has been quoted as saying the Big Sky research schools have plans to form their own division.

You could throw New Mexico State into that category.

Wichita State showed up as well.

To go back to Boise State. I read somewhere that they are the leaders in the northwest of all colleges and universities in research of predatory birds. I think what comes down with different schools are what they are unique from each other on what their research is on about.

Wichita St will go FBS and NMSU will join with the MVC. The eighth and ninth teams will come from the Southland, Sam Houston, Lamar or McNeese St. UTArlington, Oral Roberts, and Denver will be added as non-football.

Any G5 leagues that Wichita St aspire too wouldn't take a new Wichita St FBS team. The only reason that WSU is getting prepared for football and FBS is because the MVC has plans for FBS. Nothing else is logical for WSU except the MVC.

The MVC, CAA, and Big Sky will all go FBS when rules changes allow.

(12-26-2015 09:38 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I think research dollars are a good metric for public universities to compare themselves on, but not private. Many private colleges are more challenging and competitive academically than high research publics.. For example, Swarthmore>Hawaii, Mississippi State, etc.. Even for graduate school, I still don't think they are very representive.

I agree. As explained by Wake Forest, SMU being on the same level of research activity as East Carolina. That isn't exactly a very telling thing.

(12-26-2015 03:34 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 03:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The amount of research dollars produced by a school isn't very indicative of its quality.

It shouldn't be the only indicator of quality, but given that research requires money, and given that much of the research money spent by a school is obtained from competitive grants, it's one reasonable indicator to use, if it has a proper "per capita" correction (so that it doesn't just reward schools for being large, i.e., dollars-per-researcher is much more relevant than sheer dollars).

It's possible that a school spending a lot of money on research is not spending it effectively (though that is very likely to be corrected over time), but it would be difficult to imagine a large volume of quality research being done at a school with an extremely low dollars-per-researcher.

Just because you have more researchers on payroll, which corresponds to more proposals submitted, does not mean you're guaranteed more wins!

In the uber-competitive world of federal research grants, wins are wins. And wins go to the best proposals. In other words, a school has more awarded dollars because it got more wins, which can only come from having the best proposals submitted, which is not a function of the number of proposals submitted.


So based on that, I do not agree with a total awarded dollars / total researchers metric.

(12-28-2015 01:31 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(12-27-2015 04:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-26-2015 09:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  An FBS Big Sky would have three highest (Mont St, NDSU, UCDavis) and several higher research (UND, USD, SDSU, UMont, Idaho, Portland St). Idaho St and N Ariz would make eight higher research schools if the chose to go. Sac St, Cal Poly, and E Wash are the other schools make plans for FBS IMHO.

Idaho AD has been quoted as saying the Big Sky research schools have plans to form their own division.

You could throw New Mexico State into that category.

Wichita State showed up as well.

To go back to Boise State. I read somewhere that they are the leaders in the northwest of all colleges and universities in research of predatory birds. I think what comes down with different schools are what they are unique from each other on what their research is on about.

Wichita St will go FBS and NMSU will join with the MVC. The eighth and ninth teams will come from the Southland, Sam Houston, Lamar or McNeese St. UTArlington, Oral Roberts, and Denver will be added as non-football.

Any G5 leagues that Wichita St aspire too wouldn't take a new Wichita St FBS team. The only reason that WSU is getting prepared for football and FBS is because the MVC has plans for FBS. Nothing else is logical for WSU except the MVC.

The MVC, CAA, and Big Sky will all go FBS when rules changes allow.

The question would be if Southern Conference, Southland wants to follow suit as well. You do have schools like Liberty, North Alabama, Alabama State, Jacksonville State, Eastern Kentucky and Delaware State mentioned FBS. West Texas A&M could rejoin MVC since they were once a former member.