(12-23-2015 06:29 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 06:26 PM)BoiseStateBrick Wrote:  Boise State built the program on unranked, 2-stars, and walk-ons. Wouldn't be where we are now if not for those teams. The reason for success was finding the "right" guys and coaching to their potential.

We built our program on that too......we just can't get past that.

Thats hitting the nail on the head right there

(12-23-2015 10:48 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 09:39 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  Alton Meeks - No other offers
Mitchell Brinkman - 2 offers, South Dakota & WIU
Andrew Gregory - No other offers
Zeke Gueths - 2 offers, EMU & North Dakota
Daniel Isom - 3 offers, Murray St., SE Missouri St., SIU
Ben Leroy - No other offers
Corey Lersh - No other offers
Benn Olson - 3 offers, Montana, South Dakota, South Dakota St.
Brayden Patton - No other offers
Jahcour Pearson - 4 offers, Cincinnati, FIU, Miami (OH), Toledo
Anthony Thompson - No other offers
Austin Warner - 2 offers, Illinois St., South Dakota St.

This is our 2016 class so far. Boy this is shaping up to be a juggernaut
Half the class had NO ONE else come calling. Its incredibly frustrating that we've had so much success, and we still can't compete with good schools for recruits. I mean, out of all the other recruits besides Pearson, only ONE fbs school was interested. The mighty EMU eagles, boy we were lucky to snatch him up!

This is the story after being in the limelight and dominating the MAC? Right, right but we had Lynch and Harnish right? Well, we got lucky. I really don't think we're going to reach our goals and become the Boise State of the midwest if we have to pray for a miracle that there is some amazing talent lurking in a few of our 2 star recruits each class. And that's another thing, its nice we've had some real stars, but football is a TEAM sport. We need more than just a few amazing players.

You look at how weak the talent we are bringing in is, and that tells the story of why we get our sh*t pushed in every year against good non-mac opponents. Is our program really that tough of a sell? I find that hard to believe given some of the stuff we have on our resume. I just don't know.

This may be one of the most illogical posts I've ever seen on this board (not including S&N threads).

Judging a recruit/recruiting class based solely on the other programs that have offered is like judging a car based solely on the other people that have bought it. You would never buy a car simply because someone else said it was good. You'd go to the dealership, look at it, test drive it, see if it would fit the system of driving that you typically employ (driving distances, terrain crossed, amount of cargo space needed, etc). Why would you do it with a potential recruit?

Let me offer this as a counterpoint. Below is a recent recruiting class that NIU took in and the other programs that offered the recruits, according to rivals.com. To make it interesting, I have omitted the players names and provided only the positions they ended up playing:

CB - None
WR - None
CB - Akron, Ball State, Central Michigan
QB - Buffalo, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan
QB - None
OT - Illinois State, Indiana
DT - Ball State, Wyoming
OT - None
OT - Central Michigan, Mississippi State, New Mexico, Western Michigan
WR - None
DT - Eastern Illinois, Hawaii, Illinois State, Wyoming
LB - Eastern Illinois
FB - None
C - Wyoming
S - None
RB - None
TE - None
FB - None
OG - None
WR - None

Doesn't look that impressive does it? Here's another recent recruiting class:

DT - Ball State, South Dakota, Western Michigan
WR - Bowling Green, Iowa, Ohio, Syracuse, Toledo
DE - None
LB - Central Michigan, Colorado State, Kansas State, Middle Tennessee State, Rutgers, Wisconsin
LB - None
LB - None
CB - None
DT - None
DE - Eastern Michigan, Illinois State
OT - Indiana State
QB - None
WR - Prairie View A&M
DE - None
CB - Central Michigan, North Texas, UAB
OG - Illinois State, North Dakota, North Dakota State
S - None
DT - Ball State, Buffalo, Eastern Illinois, Eastern Michigan
P - None

Not too impressive either.

What if I told you that the first class shown includes 2 MAC MVPs, 1 MACC MVP, 4 members of the Huskie Stadium 50 Greatest Players list, 6 players who eventually made at least an NFL practice squad, and made up the bulk of two MAC West Division champions and the first NIU team to win the MACC since 1983. That's right, you're looking at the 2007 class there.

And what if I told you that the second class includes a 2-time MAC MVP, a Heisman finalist, an NCAA record-holder, (all the same player mind you), 2 members of the Huskie Stadium 50 Greatest Players list, 5 players that signed with an NFL team, numerous first-team all MAC players, and made up the bulk of 4 MAC West Division winners, 2 MAC Championship teams, and the only MAC team to ever play in a BCS Bowl Game? That's right, you're looking at the 2009 class.

The recruit's other offers don't matter. Neither do the number of stars they have.

As the Boise State fan has repeatedly stated, as have many on this board, what matters is if the player fits the system you run and the job the coaching staff does coaching them up and turning them into better players. This has been done down the line by every coaching staff at NIU for the past 20 years, under Novak, Kill, Doeren & Carey.

If a player is rated 3 or 4 star by the recruiting sites and turns into a great player, that's awesome. But NIU, Boise, and numerous other G5 programs have signed 3 star guys that have crashed and burned and done nothing for the programs, while also signing 2-star or no-star guys that have become some of the greatest players in program history. At this level, stars don't matter much, and even at the P5 level, a recruits other offers mean next to nothing.

Recruiting matters. Recruiting rankings, don't mean anything.

This was impressive and spot on. And I might add, very true.

(12-23-2015 07:17 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:12 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:11 PM)Spudskie Wrote:  I thought all the new facilities were supposed to help us in recruiting. Yes...I know we are in the MAC, but still we should see a benefit from this...right?

Facilities don't matter when your stadium is garbage, fans don't go to games, it's cold outside, and you're in the MAC.

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westernmichigan...ments/2016

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westernmichigan...llinois-42

Look at WMU's class, then look at ours. Pitiful the difference. We've had much more success recently in past years vs. WMU, how come Fleck can inspire higher profile talent to come there? Cary and our staff must not be very good salesmen.

Haha, I laughed at this post. On one hand your saying that PJ gets better players and why can't we do that? But then you say we have had much more success. Sooooo, are you saying you want to inspire better talent (according people who have no reason rating athletes, rivals, edgytim, etc, etc.) or would you rather WIN???

(12-24-2015 12:27 PM)NIU13 Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:17 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:12 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:11 PM)Spudskie Wrote:  I thought all the new facilities were supposed to help us in recruiting. Yes...I know we are in the MAC, but still we should see a benefit from this...right?

Facilities don't matter when your stadium is garbage, fans don't go to games, it's cold outside, and you're in the MAC.

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westernmichigan...ments/2016

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westernmichigan...llinois-42

Look at WMU's class, then look at ours. Pitiful the difference. We've had much more success recently in past years vs. WMU, how come Fleck can inspire higher profile talent to come there? Cary and our staff must not be very good salesmen.

Haha, I laughed at this post. On one hand your saying that PJ gets better players and why can't we do that? But then you say we have had much more success. Sooooo, are you saying you want to inspire better talent (according people who have no reason rating athletes, rivals, edgytim, etc, etc.) or would you rather WIN???

Maybe PJ just blows as an in-game coach? You can't deny he's bringing in better talent though, and if in a few years WMU is at the top and we descend to the middle, what'll be the excuses then? "Well, NIU just had their golden years, can't stay at the top forever, yadda yadda." When the reality is we couldn't capitalize on our success in the MAC and bring in better players to catapult us to bigger and better things.

Again, if we have so much raw talent that rankings don't even matter, where's the evidence of this? And I'm not talking about just success in the MAC. Our marquee win in 8 years was against an Iowa team that finished 8-5. Since 2008 we're 2-6 in bowl games, and we've just lost our 4th straight (2nd blowout).

(12-24-2015 12:52 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  

(12-24-2015 12:27 PM)NIU13 Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:17 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:12 PM)DogPoundNorth Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 07:11 PM)Spudskie Wrote:  I thought all the new facilities were supposed to help us in recruiting. Yes...I know we are in the MAC, but still we should see a benefit from this...right?

Facilities don't matter when your stadium is garbage, fans don't go to games, it's cold outside, and you're in the MAC.

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westernmichigan...ments/2016

https://rivals.yahoo.com/westernmichigan...llinois-42

Look at WMU's class, then look at ours. Pitiful the difference. We've had much more success recently in past years vs. WMU, how come Fleck can inspire higher profile talent to come there? Cary and our staff must not be very good salesmen.

Haha, I laughed at this post. On one hand your saying that PJ gets better players and why can't we do that? But then you say we have had much more success. Sooooo, are you saying you want to inspire better talent (according people who have no reason rating athletes, rivals, edgytim, etc, etc.) or would you rather WIN???

Maybe PJ just blows as an in-game coach? You can't deny he's bringing in better talent though, and if in a few years WMU is at the top and we descend to the middle, what'll be the excuses then? "Well, NIU just had their golden years, can't stay at the top forever, yadda yadda." When the reality is we couldn't capitalize on our success in the MAC and bring in better players to catapult us to bigger and better things.

Again, if we have so much raw talent that rankings don't even matter, where's the evidence of this? And I'm not talking about just success in the MAC. Our marquee win in 8 years was against an Iowa team that finished 8-5. Since 2008 we're 2-6 in bowl games, and we've just lost our 4th straight (2nd blowout).

This completely goes against Fraziers video too. He is not going to let this coaching staff ruin his vision, unless he gives up on it and takes a new gig.

(12-23-2015 10:48 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 09:39 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  Alton Meeks - No other offers
Mitchell Brinkman - 2 offers, South Dakota & WIU
Andrew Gregory - No other offers
Zeke Gueths - 2 offers, EMU & North Dakota
Daniel Isom - 3 offers, Murray St., SE Missouri St., SIU
Ben Leroy - No other offers
Corey Lersh - No other offers
Benn Olson - 3 offers, Montana, South Dakota, South Dakota St.
Brayden Patton - No other offers
Jahcour Pearson - 4 offers, Cincinnati, FIU, Miami (OH), Toledo
Anthony Thompson - No other offers
Austin Warner - 2 offers, Illinois St., South Dakota St.

This is our 2016 class so far. Boy this is shaping up to be a juggernaut
Half the class had NO ONE else come calling. Its incredibly frustrating that we've had so much success, and we still can't compete with good schools for recruits. I mean, out of all the other recruits besides Pearson, only ONE fbs school was interested. The mighty EMU eagles, boy we were lucky to snatch him up!

This is the story after being in the limelight and dominating the MAC? Right, right but we had Lynch and Harnish right? Well, we got lucky. I really don't think we're going to reach our goals and become the Boise State of the midwest if we have to pray for a miracle that there is some amazing talent lurking in a few of our 2 star recruits each class. And that's another thing, its nice we've had some real stars, but football is a TEAM sport. We need more than just a few amazing players.

You look at how weak the talent we are bringing in is, and that tells the story of why we get our sh*t pushed in every year against good non-mac opponents. Is our program really that tough of a sell? I find that hard to believe given some of the stuff we have on our resume. I just don't know.

This may be one of the most illogical posts I've ever seen on this board (not including S&N threads).

Judging a recruit/recruiting class based solely on the other programs that have offered is like judging a car based solely on the other people that have bought it. You would never buy a car simply because someone else said it was good. You'd go to the dealership, look at it, test drive it, see if it would fit the system of driving that you typically employ (driving distances, terrain crossed, amount of cargo space needed, etc). Why would you do it with a potential recruit?

Let me offer this as a counterpoint. Below is a recent recruiting class that NIU took in and the other programs that offered the recruits, according to rivals.com. To make it interesting, I have omitted the players names and provided only the positions they ended up playing:

CB - None
WR - None
CB - Akron, Ball State, Central Michigan
QB - Buffalo, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan
QB - None
OT - Illinois State, Indiana
DT - Ball State, Wyoming
OT - None
OT - Central Michigan, Mississippi State, New Mexico, Western Michigan
WR - None
DT - Eastern Illinois, Hawaii, Illinois State, Wyoming
LB - Eastern Illinois
FB - None
C - Wyoming
S - None
RB - None
TE - None
FB - None
OG - None
WR - None

Doesn't look that impressive does it? Here's another recent recruiting class:

DT - Ball State, South Dakota, Western Michigan
WR - Bowling Green, Iowa, Ohio, Syracuse, Toledo
DE - None
LB - Central Michigan, Colorado State, Kansas State, Middle Tennessee State, Rutgers, Wisconsin
LB - None
LB - None
CB - None
DT - None
DE - Eastern Michigan, Illinois State
OT - Indiana State
QB - None
WR - Prairie View A&M
DE - None
CB - Central Michigan, North Texas, UAB
OG - Illinois State, North Dakota, North Dakota State
S - None
DT - Ball State, Buffalo, Eastern Illinois, Eastern Michigan
P - None

Not too impressive either.

What if I told you that the first class shown includes 2 MAC MVPs, 1 MACC MVP, 4 members of the Huskie Stadium 50 Greatest Players list, 6 players who eventually made at least an NFL practice squad, and made up the bulk of two MAC West Division champions and the first NIU team to win the MACC since 1983. That's right, you're looking at the 2007 class there.

And what if I told you that the second class includes a 2-time MAC MVP, a Heisman finalist, an NCAA record-holder, (all the same player mind you), 2 members of the Huskie Stadium 50 Greatest Players list, 5 players that signed with an NFL team, numerous first-team all MAC players, and made up the bulk of 4 MAC West Division winners, 2 MAC Championship teams, and the only MAC team to ever play in a BCS Bowl Game? That's right, you're looking at the 2009 class.

The recruit's other offers don't matter. Neither do the number of stars they have.

As the Boise State fan has repeatedly stated, as have many on this board, what matters is if the player fits the system you run and the job the coaching staff does coaching them up and turning them into better players. This has been done down the line by every coaching staff at NIU for the past 20 years, under Novak, Kill, Doeren & Carey.

If a player is rated 3 or 4 star by the recruiting sites and turns into a great player, that's awesome. But NIU, Boise, and numerous other G5 programs have signed 3 star guys that have crashed and burned and done nothing for the programs, while also signing 2-star or no-star guys that have become some of the greatest players in program history. At this level, stars don't matter much, and even at the P5 level, a recruits other offers mean next to nothing.

Recruiting matters. Recruiting rankings, don't mean anything.

If you are only concerned about MAC play this is very true. The recruiting rankings are meaningless. MAC MVPs, Top 50 NIU players and the other stuff is great when you only measure them up against other MAC teams. Against good teams those rankings and those players are exposed. Here's a recruitment offer sheet from the team that just beat you down and took your lunch money

2013 Boise class
RB - Cinn, UCLA, Wash, SD st.
DB - Fresno St, Haw, NMexst, SD st
TE - SD st
DT - Ariz, ariz st, Colo, Haw, Oreg st, Utah, wash st
TE - Wash st
QB - none
DB - Nevada
LB - Wash st
DB - Ariz, Fresno, Nev, San Jose
OL - none
LB - Haw, Ut st
DB - Bowl Gr, Del, Flo atl, Fordham, Geo st, MTenn, Tulane, Villinova, W Kent
LB - Army, colo, colo st, Nev, Utah. Ut st
WR - Cal, Duke, Haw, Hou, Nev, SD st
ATh - Ariz, Duke,Iowa, Nev, Oreg st, SD st, Wash St
WR- BYU, colo, N colo, Oreg st, wyom
LB - Ariz, colo, col st, fres st, nev, sd st, unvl, wash st
DT - cal pol, cal, col st, fres st, nev, oreg st, unlv, wash st
DT - Hous, indian, L tech, memphis, oreg st, tenn st, tex tech, toledo
OL - Navy, Nevada, N tex, Rice

2 star classes will get you to the top of the MAC. The top of the G5 world takes a bit more.

(12-24-2015 03:49 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 10:48 PM)BarsemaBone2 Wrote:  

(12-23-2015 09:39 PM)SiegInc Wrote:  Alton Meeks - No other offers
Mitchell Brinkman - 2 offers, South Dakota & WIU
Andrew Gregory - No other offers
Zeke Gueths - 2 offers, EMU & North Dakota
Daniel Isom - 3 offers, Murray St., SE Missouri St., SIU
Ben Leroy - No other offers
Corey Lersh - No other offers
Benn Olson - 3 offers, Montana, South Dakota, South Dakota St.
Brayden Patton - No other offers
Jahcour Pearson - 4 offers, Cincinnati, FIU, Miami (OH), Toledo
Anthony Thompson - No other offers
Austin Warner - 2 offers, Illinois St., South Dakota St.

This is our 2016 class so far. Boy this is shaping up to be a juggernaut
Half the class had NO ONE else come calling. Its incredibly frustrating that we've had so much success, and we still can't compete with good schools for recruits. I mean, out of all the other recruits besides Pearson, only ONE fbs school was interested. The mighty EMU eagles, boy we were lucky to snatch him up!

This is the story after being in the limelight and dominating the MAC? Right, right but we had Lynch and Harnish right? Well, we got lucky. I really don't think we're going to reach our goals and become the Boise State of the midwest if we have to pray for a miracle that there is some amazing talent lurking in a few of our 2 star recruits each class. And that's another thing, its nice we've had some real stars, but football is a TEAM sport. We need more than just a few amazing players.

You look at how weak the talent we are bringing in is, and that tells the story of why we get our sh*t pushed in every year against good non-mac opponents. Is our program really that tough of a sell? I find that hard to believe given some of the stuff we have on our resume. I just don't know.

This may be one of the most illogical posts I've ever seen on this board (not including S&N threads).

Judging a recruit/recruiting class based solely on the other programs that have offered is like judging a car based solely on the other people that have bought it. You would never buy a car simply because someone else said it was good. You'd go to the dealership, look at it, test drive it, see if it would fit the system of driving that you typically employ (driving distances, terrain crossed, amount of cargo space needed, etc). Why would you do it with a potential recruit?

Let me offer this as a counterpoint. Below is a recent recruiting class that NIU took in and the other programs that offered the recruits, according to rivals.com. To make it interesting, I have omitted the players names and provided only the positions they ended up playing:

CB - None
WR - None
CB - Akron, Ball State, Central Michigan
QB - Buffalo, Central Michigan, Eastern Michigan
QB - None
OT - Illinois State, Indiana
DT - Ball State, Wyoming
OT - None
OT - Central Michigan, Mississippi State, New Mexico, Western Michigan
WR - None
DT - Eastern Illinois, Hawaii, Illinois State, Wyoming
LB - Eastern Illinois
FB - None
C - Wyoming
S - None
RB - None
TE - None
FB - None
OG - None
WR - None

Doesn't look that impressive does it? Here's another recent recruiting class:

DT - Ball State, South Dakota, Western Michigan
WR - Bowling Green, Iowa, Ohio, Syracuse, Toledo
DE - None
LB - Central Michigan, Colorado State, Kansas State, Middle Tennessee State, Rutgers, Wisconsin
LB - None
LB - None
CB - None
DT - None
DE - Eastern Michigan, Illinois State
OT - Indiana State
QB - None
WR - Prairie View A&M
DE - None
CB - Central Michigan, North Texas, UAB
OG - Illinois State, North Dakota, North Dakota State
S - None
DT - Ball State, Buffalo, Eastern Illinois, Eastern Michigan
P - None

Not too impressive either.

What if I told you that the first class shown includes 2 MAC MVPs, 1 MACC MVP, 4 members of the Huskie Stadium 50 Greatest Players list, 6 players who eventually made at least an NFL practice squad, and made up the bulk of two MAC West Division champions and the first NIU team to win the MACC since 1983. That's right, you're looking at the 2007 class there.

And what if I told you that the second class includes a 2-time MAC MVP, a Heisman finalist, an NCAA record-holder, (all the same player mind you), 2 members of the Huskie Stadium 50 Greatest Players list, 5 players that signed with an NFL team, numerous first-team all MAC players, and made up the bulk of 4 MAC West Division winners, 2 MAC Championship teams, and the only MAC team to ever play in a BCS Bowl Game? That's right, you're looking at the 2009 class.

The recruit's other offers don't matter. Neither do the number of stars they have.

As the Boise State fan has repeatedly stated, as have many on this board, what matters is if the player fits the system you run and the job the coaching staff does coaching them up and turning them into better players. This has been done down the line by every coaching staff at NIU for the past 20 years, under Novak, Kill, Doeren & Carey.

If a player is rated 3 or 4 star by the recruiting sites and turns into a great player, that's awesome. But NIU, Boise, and numerous other G5 programs have signed 3 star guys that have crashed and burned and done nothing for the programs, while also signing 2-star or no-star guys that have become some of the greatest players in program history. At this level, stars don't matter much, and even at the P5 level, a recruits other offers mean next to nothing.

Recruiting matters. Recruiting rankings, don't mean anything.

If you are only concerned about MAC play this is very true. The recruiting rankings are meaningless. MAC MVPs, Top 50 NIU players and the other stuff is great when you only measure them up against other MAC teams. Against good teams those rankings and those players are exposed. Here's a recruitment offer sheet from the team that just beat you down and took your lunch money

2013 Boise class
RB - Cinn, UCLA, Wash, SD st.
DB - Fresno St, Haw, NMexst, SD st
TE - SD st
DT - Ariz, ariz st, Colo, Haw, Oreg st, Utah, wash st
TE - Wash st
QB - none
DB - Nevada
LB - Wash st
DB - Ariz, Fresno, Nev, San Jose
OL - none
LB - Haw, Ut st
DB - Bowl Gr, Del, Flo atl, Fordham, Geo st, MTenn, Tulane, Villinova, W Kent
LB - Army, colo, colo st, Nev, Utah. Ut st
WR - Cal, Duke, Haw, Hou, Nev, SD st
ATh - Ariz, Duke,Iowa, Nev, Oreg st, SD st, Wash St
WR- BYU, colo, N colo, Oreg st, wyom
LB - Ariz, colo, col st, fres st, nev, sd st, unvl, wash st
DT - cal pol, cal, col st, fres st, nev, oreg st, unlv, wash st
DT - Hous, indian, L tech, memphis, oreg st, tenn st, tex tech, toledo
OL - Navy, Nevada, N tex, Rice

2 star classes will get you to the top of the MAC. The top of the G5 world takes a bit more.

For QB you need to include the four star true freshman with five P5 offers and a bunch of G5 offers...

Exactly, look at the quality of schools Boise beat out for their players, and then take a look at ours. I'd be willing to bet that 9 times out of 10, a recruit with offers from Oregon State, Texas Tech, Memphis, Houston, and Indiana is probably going to be more of an athlete than a recruit who is only being courted by North Dakota and Murray St. Sure, sometimes a 5* with a million offers is a bust when a 2* nobody ends up being a stud, but lets be realistic this usually isn't the case.

Face it people, we just can't sell playing for NIU well enough to attract recruits away from other competitive FBS programs, we get the table scraps and our increasingly abysmal bowl performance against OOC opponents is proof of this. The only defense anyone has against this is to beat their chest and go on about how well we do against the MAC. It really is depressing looking at the 2016 commitments