Who cares? The MAC is a solid conference with solid history and I enjoy watching the Tuesday and Wednesday night games personally.

(12-21-2015 11:30 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  They need to add some teams...they need some teams in the conference that aren't so regional, and push the conference southward some....

With UMass being relegated to Independent the MAC seems perfectly content at 12 members and southwards expansion does not look to be on the table.

(12-21-2015 11:30 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  Losing UCF, Temple, and Marshall has hurt them....

UCF, Temple and UMass are debatable. UCF was a silly add, if Temple stayed then Temple and UMass would be good additions, but without Temple, UMass made a bad addition. Once UMass said "No thanks" to going all MAC, that closed the door on JMU. A lot of odd-dominos....

I personally liked Marshall in the conference as they were a (generally) good culture and geographic fit in the MAC East, but professionally they've burned their bridge and then burnt the remains then buried the remains then built an outhouse on the remains.

The MAC keeps trying to expand and it has not worked out favorably for the conference after NIU and Buffalo joined. Outside of a sea-change in FBS football I would not be surprised if the MAC of 2015 is the same MAC of 2025 and is the same MAC of 2035.

The MAC isn't moving down, and history shows that we will survive. The MAC isn't adding anyone new, no one within our footprint adds enough value to justify adding another mouth to feed for TV money.

Yeah, the weeknight attendance sucks, but how many conferences draw well in those circumstances? Toledo drew more in their MACtion this year than Wazzu did on a weeknight against a ranked Arizona State a few years ago. The only reason people complain is that we're routinely broadcasting those games on national TV, if the Belt or C-USA played on a cool Tuesday night in November they would get similar numbers outside of their top schools, who admittedly draw better than our best.

(12-21-2015 11:55 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I personally liked Marshall in the conference as they were a (generally) good culture and geographic fit in the MAC East, but professionally they've burned their bridge and then burnt the remains then buried the remains then built an outhouse on the remains.

What exactly did Marshall do?

(12-21-2015 11:02 AM)FlyHawk98 Wrote:  And NIU thinks they are in line to move up to a better conference. They also try the claim Chicago market.

Can you claim any market when your football team averages 13,000 per game and your basketball team only averages 1,000 per game?

Markets are not defined by attendence, they are defined by ratings. Though I will give u the basketball jab, the team has been in the dumps for years and is finally starting to improve.

The current TV contract is really hurting MAC attendance. Those Tuesday/Wednesday games are a very tough draw, especially when you count on a lot of out-of-towners to fill the seats.

(12-21-2015 11:40 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 11:32 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 11:30 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  They need to add some teams...they need some teams in the conference that aren't so regional, and push the conference southward some....

Losing UCF, Temple, and Marshall has hurt them....

Western Kentucky and Southern Miss would be good additions, but I don't know if the MAC could pry them away....

If Western Kentucky and Southern Miss said no, Texas State and Appalachian State would be good targets

Another thing that might help is moving Eastern Michigan to the EAST Division and splitting up the Michigan teams, who seem to always be bad...

A Couple of new southern-based teams would help solidify the MAC's place in expansion and add some good teams and variety to the conference, and hopefully make the conference worthwhile for NIU and Toledo to stay

MAC East
Ohio
Bowling Green
Akron
Buffalo
Miami OH
E. Michigan
Appalachian State

MAC West
Toledo
C. Michigan
W. Michigan
NIU
Ball St.
Kent St.
Texas State

Are you sure EvilVodka isn't just an alias for DavidSt?

ya I'm pretty sure

(12-21-2015 11:43 AM)pirates4lyfe Wrote:  Who cares? The MAC is a solid conference with solid history and I enjoy watching the Tuesday and Wednesday night games personally.

I agree, but conference expansion is what it is, and IMO NIU is growing and looking like a good candidate for a few different leagues....

The notion that MAC as part of the G5 is collaboration is wrong....they're in direct competition with the Mountain West, American, C-USA, and the Sun Belt.....

you don't want to be on the sidelines acting content while other conferences steal your programs. IMO, the MAC should have some schools they are actively looking at for #13 and #14

Western Kentucky
Southern Miss
Texas State
UTSA
North Texas
Appalachian State

They're all good schools to add, solidifying the MAC at the top of the G5

(12-21-2015 11:30 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  They need to add some teams...they need some teams in the conference that aren't so regional, and push the conference southward some....

Losing UCF, Temple, and Marshall has hurt them....

I agree the MAC would be better off with a somewhat larger footprint, and I believe past expansion efforts have been made with an eye to accomplishing this, but I disagree that the answer necessarily involves expanding southward.

As far as past "losses": Temple was a loss, as it took us out of a neighboring state and a market with a lot of television sets. It also FUBARed the effort to bring in Massachusetts.

I'm not sure the other schools you mentioned were big losses. Central Florida was never going to be a long term member; everyone knew that. As for Marshall: Ohio beat them this season, and Kent State very nearly did. They are free to continue flying their volleyball team across the country, I suppose.

Quote:A Couple of new southern-based teams would help solidify the MAC's place in expansion and add some good teams and variety to the conference, and hopefully make the conference worthwhile for NIU and Toledo to stay

Where would Northern Illinois and Toledo go? Conference USA? Doubtful. That's a fairly lateral move with much higher travel costs.

My guess is that the MAC will sit tight until Stony Brook moves up.

Quote:Another thing that might help is moving Eastern Michigan to the EAST Division and splitting up the Michigan teams, who seem to always be bad...

Geographically, Eastern Michigan belongs in the west. The divisions are fine. If anything, the conventional wisdom is that the East is the weaker division, although I don't know that 2015 bore that out.

(12-21-2015 11:59 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  if the Belt or C-USA played on a cool Tuesday night in November they would get similar numbers outside of their top schools, who admittedly draw better than our best.

Conference- USA actually started the whole Tuesday night football thing. They drew great ratings and live gates.

ESPN Wrote:The arrangement has also been a boon to ESPN. The Cardinals’ prime-time games quickly became ratings winners, convincing others that playing at midweek, while unconventional, could be a blessing in the form of exposure.

“It was a programmer’s dream,” Mr. Shapiro said. “We already had N.F.L. on Sunday nights, N.H.L. and M.L.B. on multiple nights, Thursday night college football. We were all filled up. So I said, ‘How about Tuesday nights?’ They seized it, and over time their results have been spectacular.”

(12-21-2015 11:55 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 11:30 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  They need to add some teams...they need some teams in the conference that aren't so regional, and push the conference southward some....

With UMass being relegated to Independent the MAC seems perfectly content at 12 members and southwards expansion does not look to be on the table.

The problem is the MAC shouldn't want to get passed by C-USA and the Sun Belt

I think if you took NIU and Toledo out of the MAC, they'd fall to the bottom-rung on the G5 list....

NIU is looking better and better every year. It's important the MAC takes the necessary steps to continue to grow the conference and be competitive

(12-21-2015 12:19 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  The problem is the MAC shouldn't want to get passed by C-USA and the Sun Belt

I am not sure they were ever ahead of C-USA, nor the old Sunbelt, though they probably are ahead of the new FCS call-up version

Appalachian State attendance this year is down 18% from last pre-FBS announcement year.

The Weeknight games hurt attendance for any program.


But ESPN doesn't care about butts in the seat, just programming for otherwise dead nights, sportswise.

(12-21-2015 12:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Appalachian State attendance this year is down 18% from last pre-FBS announcement year.

The Weeknight games hurt attendance for any program.


But ESPN doesn't care about butts in the seat, just programming for otherwise dead nights, sportswise.

Yeh, those Thursday games were a big factor in bringing down the attendance. 3 games in 14 days really hurt the Thursday attendance against ArkState.

(12-21-2015 12:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Appalachian State attendance this year is down 18% from last pre-FBS announcement year.

The Weeknight games hurt attendance for any program.


But ESPN doesn't care about butts in the seat, just programming for otherwise dead nights, sportswise.

That is true, but as long as you only have to host a weeknight game once per season, the exposure alone is worth the financial hit you take from less butts in the seats.

[quote='Schadenfreude' pid='12812151' dateline='1450718122']
[quote]A Couple of new southern-based teams would help solidify the MAC's place in expansion and add some good teams and variety to the conference, and hopefully make the conference worthwhile for NIU and Toledo to stay
[/quote]

Where would Northern Illinois and Toledo go? Conference USA? Doubtful. That's a fairly lateral move with much higher travel costs.

My guess is that the MAC will sit tight until Stony Brook moves up.
[quote]

If I was C-USA, I'd be looking specifically at NIU...NIU is growing fast, will they outgrown the MAC?

you stick NIU in either division in C-USA, and all of the sudden they have access to Florida/Texas recruiting

you also have a much better selection of opponents in Western Kentucky, Southern Miss, UTSA, Rice, Marshall

Grabbing NIU would make C-USA > the MAC

(I'd also be looking at New Mexico, but that's another thread)

(12-21-2015 12:19 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 11:55 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 11:30 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  They need to add some teams...they need some teams in the conference that aren't so regional, and push the conference southward some....

With UMass being relegated to Independent the MAC seems perfectly content at 12 members and southwards expansion does not look to be on the table.

The problem is the MAC shouldn't want to get passed by C-USA and the Sun Belt

I think if you took NIU and Toledo out of the MAC, they'd fall to the bottom-rung on the G5 list....

NIU is looking better and better every year. It's important the MAC takes the necessary steps to continue to grow the conference and be competitive

I don't know that they have the same type of ambitions as the other G5 conferences. I think they want to be successful and get good bowl/TV deals and generate attention around their campuses like everyone else, but they're unique in their geographic/institutional footprint; in fact, every time they've added a team, that team would be the next one to leave. They serve a distinct purpose, and it won't help them to add random teams in the South. Clearly they aren't particularly concerned about attendance if they're willing to sacrifice it for ESPN clearance on midweek nights.

They're never going to be a P5 or tweener conference, but they're perfectly content with a band of similarly aligned schools in proximity, and if they can make it work by whatever metric they consider "working", what do we care whether it meets ours?

(12-21-2015 12:31 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 12:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Appalachian State attendance this year is down 18% from last pre-FBS announcement year.

The Weeknight games hurt attendance for any program.


But ESPN doesn't care about butts in the seat, just programming for otherwise dead nights, sportswise.

That is true, but as long as you only have to host a weeknight game once per season, the exposure alone is worth the financial hit you take from less butts in the seats.

That's true. And it's why I hated seeing a 2nd Thursday night game against stAte just 14 days after the Thursday nigh game with GaSo

(12-21-2015 12:06 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  The current TV contract is really hurting MAC attendance. Those Tuesday/Wednesday games are a very tough draw, especially when you count on a lot of out-of-towners to fill the seats.

This. I don't know if the money and TV exposure justify playing so many Tuesday/Wednesday football games. In terms of building fan and donor support, they might be better off playing only on Saturdays and having a MAC game of the week on NBCSN or CBSSN with the rest of their games streamed over the internet. What's good for ESPN is not necessarily good for the MAC.

(12-21-2015 12:24 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 12:19 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  The problem is the MAC shouldn't want to get passed by C-USA and the Sun Belt

I am not sure they were ever ahead of C-USA, nor the old Sunbelt, though they probably are ahead of the new FCS call-up version

true, they're all really close...the only G5 conference that has separated themselves is the American

the MAC made a great run at the Access Bid with Toledo, and NIU has slowly gained recognition...the MAC hasn't done much to separate themselves though